Front Suspension Upgrade

[TLeBlanc]

Greetings everyone,

I am thinking of doing an overhaul (or upgrade) to the front suspension of my 64. Noticed this weekend that one of the coil springs is a bit lower than the other. I've come up with a couple of options:

1. Rebuild entire suspension and replace coil springs
or
2. Go with the Vette Brakes Traverse Spring upgrade.

Question 1... suggestions for replacement coilsprings (ie, spring rate, vendor, etc). I have small block (no air) engine.

Question 2... does anyone have some feedback on the VB&P system. Improvements to ride and driveablility ? Problems ? etc...

 

[66 Red Rocket]

VETTE BRAKES SUSPENSION

I HAVE A VETTE BRAKES FRONT(WITH TUBLAR UPPER & LOWER CONTROL ARMS) & REAR(WITH DUAL MOUNT REAR SPRING) SUSPENSION KIT AND LOVE IT. WHEN I PURCHASHED MY 66 BIIG BLOCK COUPE IT DROVE LIKE A TRUCK COMPAIRED TO THE DATSUN 280Z WITH CHEVY 350 POWER I HAD BEEN USED TO(WITH FULL SUSPENSION MODS). AFTER INSTALING THE VETTE BRAKES KIT, WHICH IS A SIMPLE BOLT ON, THE VETTE CAME ALIVE HANDELING WISE AND THE RIDE IS MUCH IMPROVED, PLUS IT IS TOTALY ADJUSTIABLE. I DONT SEE HOW YOU CAN GO WRONG, TOO ME IT WAS NO BRAINER AND YOU CAN ALWAYS CONVERT IT BACK TO STOCK. JOHN

 

[firstgear]

good thread...I have a '64 with a tired suspension....when I get on it I worry about everything keeping me on the straight and narrow.....perhaps after I get done doing the '60....which for me is a big project, this might be the next place for me to put my entertainment dollars......

 

[stepinwolf]

I'v been through the process

I have went through the process of replacing my complete front suspension with the Vette Brakes & Products transverse front spring, and I am thrilled with the upgrade. Our mid-years are Americas premiere sports car, but we have a tendency to forget that the suspension, and drive trains, are 40 year old technology.

When we build or restore a Corvette to have it go through the judging process, everyone agrees that it be kept in it's original condition. However for the regular " driver " type of ride that the majority of the vehicles are used for, there is no logic to keep maintaining any of the braking, steering or suspension systems that are outdated, and in many case outright dangerous to use.

Were the upgrades not available, many of us would complain about the situation, but now that these parts are on the market, not to mention, very affordable, I don't understand why more hobbiests do not profit from the technology

As far as the front spring conversion itself, the two things, other then a smoother ride, that most impressed me was the ease with which I can change the spring rate, and the adjust-ability of the ride height.

Normally, when one changes the front coil springs, a choice must be made as to exactly what spring rate must be used, that will resemble as closely as possible, how you want the car to behave. The second issue is the ride height. Choose the wrong springs, or " God forbid " receive a set that when installed are not " PERFECTLY MATCHED " and I promise you , you will not be a happy camper.

By replacing your front coils with the Vette Brakes front fiberglass spring conversion, it will guarantee you that you will never find yourself in this type of situation. The reason is in the way they are attached to the frame. They are mounted using a bracket that serves to adjust the spring rate by simply moving the attachment point to four different settings. By doing so you can soften the ride, or make it as harsh as you would like it to be.

The second thing we should consider is the ease with which the ride height can be adjusted. Those of you who have had to replace a metal transverse spring under tension, will certainly appreciate the advantages of the front fiberglass spring. The reason is because once it's properly installed, and the weight of the car is taken off the spring, the spring itself is no longer under tension. The spring bolt that connects the spring to it's support is completely loose, and one can use a wrench to turn the nut, one way or the other to raise or lower the car to whatever height adjustment is needed.

You might want to try adjusting the ride height with a set of coil springs and see how far you will get.

In closing ( sorry for the length of the response ) I have driven many mid-years during my life, and I must confess that the ride I now have with the car, since the suspension was replaced is something I will never again live without. I am so impress with the advantages that I will never go back to the 40 years old technology, for the sake of correctness.

Stepinwolf

 

[TLeBlanc]

Thanks for the replies 66 Red Rocket and Stepinwolf. Sounds like I may be going in the right direction as my goal is to improve the ride.

One other consideration I came across last night and that is QA1 now has a coilover setup that would replace the factory style coil spring. Did a search in this forum, but did not come up with much. Has anybody went this route yet and if so, what are your thoughts ?

 

[stepinwolf]

Thanks for the replies 66 Red Rocket and Stepinwolf. Sounds like I may be going in the right direction as my goal is to improve the ride.

One other consideration I came across last night and that is QA1 now has a coilover setup that would replace the factory style coil spring. Did a search in this forum, but did not come up with much. Has anybody went this route yet and if so, what are your thoughts ?

Tad,

As far as I know, all the QA1 coil-over conversions are for the late model suspensions, and not for mid-years

Stepinwolf

 

[TLeBlanc]

Tad,

As far as I know, all the QA1 coil-over conversions are for the late model suspensions, and not for mid-years

Stepinwolf

That was what I initially thought, but I had saw an ad in one of the Corvette magazines that said they now offered a bolt on coilover replacement for the original coil spring and shock. I called them and they confirmed this. Basically, the only modification is to drill out the lower shock mounting bolt hole to allow a 3/8" bolt to pass through it. The lower shock mounting sits on the top of the lower control arm. Since it is a new product, I may not be able to hear from someone that has installed these.... but maybe someone out there has, or knows someone that has.

 

[Wilkinshc]

TleBlanc,

You might check out these sites:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/index.php4?

or

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/

I saw someone with a c2 or c3 going with the coil over setup, not sure if they had any road time yet though?

I opted for the VBP setup, but I don't have it on the road yet so I can't give you an opinion about ride but installation was quite easy. I also went with the QA1 double adj shock so I can tune them in for both street and track driving.

Chuck

 

[IH2LOSE]

So I am a little late on this post, But when I purchased my 66 it had an after market supention front and rear.
The rear was a trw mono spring

The front was tubular A arms with mono spring (No coil springs)

I thought the car drove OK but every one who owned a midyear at one time in there life RAIVED about the ride. I had always thought they were just being kind to me.

Well I made the decistion to bring my 66 back to "factory correct condtion" and removed the aftermarket set up.

Let me tell you the differance was night and day and was fealt right away.

The system in the car I belive was some type of a kit from ecklers as it seamed every thing on the car was in an ecklers catalog.

I do remember when I first completed the convertion back to stock I had fealt as though the car was hanging way out,Or maybee the best way to describe it was rolling/pushing thru twisties.

Now I am used to it and to me the car just feels predicable.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Here are 2 pictures of what I had when I purchased the 66

 

[JohnZ]

Jim Meyer Racing makes a tubular front upper and lower control arm setup for C2's that uses coil-overs, and Van Steel makes the pieces to use coil-overs on the C2 rear; that's what we're using on the "King Rat" project car for Carlisle this year. Full article on the suspension in the current (April) issue of "Corvette Enthusiast" magazine.

 

[Wilkinshc]

JohnZ,

I just call Van Steel to inquire about the rear setup and they said that they are not happy with that setup and are coming up with a new one. Seems they are worried about the wheels flipping over on their side, not enough strength. They are hoping in a couple of months the new setup will be available. Wonder how much horsepower it can hold up too? Any idea?

Thanks
Chuck

 

[JohnZ]

Dunno - we'll find out the first time we drop the hammer on the 572

 

[groovyjay]

John, what QA1 coil overs are you using at the rear? Part numebr? What #lb springs did you go with? I have the JMRP front suspension I'll be putting on the GS soon.

Another thing, now that you have deleted the rear leaf spring and went with coil overs all the force/energy is now going through the coil over shock and IMO the stock shock mounts are the weak points here. Guldstrand said that the stock lower mounts will not be able to handle all the load with out the leaf spring and IMO the upeer shock mount is just as weak.

I need to relocate the upper mounts inwards to clear my upper control arms and I will be fabricating the new shock mounts to withstand the load.

Any thoughts John?

 

[groovyjay]

Not to complitely hi-jack this thread here's my input for the original question.

I installed the full VB&P performance + kit for my 79 years ago. It was the only real suspension upgrade available for C2 and C3s at that time. Things I like about the kit is that it really is a bolt on job, it took me whole 2 hours to get it in and another 15minutes to adjust it once I had the car done. I also like the fact that you can really change the ride height in a matter of minutes. I also improved the cars handling over the 550lb springs and Koni shocks I had before. And the kit is also very light.

Things I don't like about the kit are LEAF SPRINGS, must be an European thing but I have never liked the idea of leaf springs I read a great thread on another forum where JohnZ wrote about the leaf springs and I'm sure he knows his stuff and they really do work (just look at the new Z06's lap times around "the ring"). But this kit is an aftermarket conversion, in front the leafspring ends are hanging really low and the spring end bolts even lower.

Now that Van Steel is getting their "improved Jim Meyer Clone" ready to hit the market I would forget about the leaf spring conversion for the front. The aluminum bodied shocks are really light and the coil overs are also very easy to adjust.

Just my 2 cents.

Here's an old pic showing my installation:

 

[stepinwolf]

Not that it's any of my business

Groovyjay,

Your spring ends bolts might have had much more clearence if you had installed them correctly. As your picture shows, you actually put them in upside down. :duh You should have installed them with the threads pointed towards the top.

Just a thought

Stepinwolf

 

[groovyjay]

Groovyjay,

Your spring ends bolts might have had much more clearence if you had installed them correctly. As your picture shows, you actually put them in upside down. :duh You should have installed them with the threads pointed towards the top.

Just a thought

Stepinwolf

That picture was taken right after I first installed the spring, afterwardsI have turned the bolts up side down for extra clearance.

 

[TLeBlanc]

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts and feedback.

Groovyjay, you bring up a point that I have been pondering as well. I spoke with a shop here in Houston that has installed both the VB&P front leaf spring kit as well as the QA1 Coilover conversion. The guy I talked to said both were a definite inprovement, but the leaf spring kit brought with it clearance issues that the coilover setup did not. Right now I am leaning toward going with the coilover set up, but have not totally made up my mind yet.

 

[groovyjay]

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts and feedback.

Groovyjay, you bring up a point that I have been pondering as well. I spoke with a shop here in Houston that has installed both the VB&P front leaf spring kit as well as the QA1 Coilover conversion. The guy I talked to said both were a definite inprovement, but the leaf spring kit brought with it clearance issues that the coilover setup did not. Right now I am leaning toward going with the coilover set up, but have not totally made up my mind yet.

Make sure you get the true coil overs over, not the semi coil overs I see on some of the cars.

 

[stepinwolf]

The only clearance, or mod needed

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts and feedback.

Groovyjay, you bring up a point that I have been pondering as well. I spoke with a shop here in Houston that has installed both the VB&P front leaf spring kit as well as the QA1 Coilover conversion. The guy I talked to said both were a definite inprovement, but the leaf spring kit brought with it clearance issues that the coilover setup did not. Right now I am leaning toward going with the coilover set up, but have not totally made up my mind yet.

TLeBlanc

The only interference you will encounter with the installation of the VBP's front fiberglass spring is with the last 6" of the center lower bumper mount brackets. The rear 6" of each bracket will need to be removed, or slightly modified in order to make room for the spring. Other then that if you mount it correctly as per the instructions, you will definitely not have any clearance, or interference issues.

As far as adjustably of the spring rate, and the ease with which you can raise of lower the ride height, the use of the transverse fiberglass spring, will by far make these tasks much faster and easier, then with any type of coil/over suspension.

regards
Bob

a.k.a. Stepinwolf