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Generic Keyless Entry

69MyWay

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Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
I have a generic keyless entry only system that I would like to install on the 90. A quick test of the car shows me that if I "unlock" the door with the power door lock (window down, reaching inside and hitting the unlock button), the alarm goes off. The keyless entry system I would be installing simply triggers the unlock button (more or less).

Any ideas out there on how I could get around this so that the remote will unlock the door without triggering the alarm? I was thinking about "hot wiring" the key lock, but fear that would leave the interior lights on all the time.

(the interior lights come on when the key goes in and turns the door lock).

I know mid america and others sell a kit for the C4 to do this, and the trick must all be in how it gets around the factory alarm.

Thanks!
 

Bluevette85

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2002
Messages
11
Location
Latham, NY
Corvette
1985 Blue Coupe
I don't know if your year has the same Theft Deterent Module that the 85 has but it might be similar. What I did was connect a diode (1N4001) to the unlock trigger on the keyless entry and to the disarm input on th TDM (lt green wire - 'H' on connector) A shop manual would help you find the right wire colors for your year.
 

vigman

Motor head!!!!
Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Messages
3,471
Location
Valencia, CA,USA
Corvette
88 Convert ( SOLD ) /1973 coupe 4 speed/1964 Vert!
I think......

That if you use the solenoids it doesn't pulse the door lock switch so no alarm problem.

I have a DEI alarm with keyless entry and there is no problem.

In the alarm test you open the door from the inside I think that lever motion is what hits the alarm switch.

Mike
 

Bluevette85

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2002
Messages
11
Location
Latham, NY
Corvette
1985 Blue Coupe
There is a switch built into the key door lock. When it is unlocked, it grounds the TDM at pin H. Only turning the key does this, sliding the lock lever or using the power door lock switch won't.
 
T

Tanzanite3

Guest
not sure but.....

I installed the remote keyless system from MAD into our '91.. No problem.. a bit of a tricky installation.. however, it all works very well.

It also is a remote for the rear hatch on ours. Very helpful!!

If you have the window opened, the doors locked and unlock the door from the outside with the key, nothing happens except that it unlocks..... does it?? It didn't on ours. I think that this is where the new remote hooks up.. as if it were the key unlocking it!
 

69MyWay

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Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Great info guys. I did not get to it today, and also put it off until I could get more feedback from you. I knew about the key lock switch.

The truth is, I don't care of the audible works or not, as long as the chip is still in the key (VATS). So, if I could hot wire it to think the doors were never locked, that would be okay as well.

I need to know more about that resister. Does it just keep from backing current up?
 

vigman

Motor head!!!!
Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Messages
3,471
Location
Valencia, CA,USA
Corvette
88 Convert ( SOLD ) /1973 coupe 4 speed/1964 Vert!
The Vats resistor

It's a comparator circut it's basically looking @ the two resistances ( one in the VATS box & your key pellet and the wiring inbetween)
If it's the same it lets the starter relay close if not no juice to the relay coil no crank. But FYI
It will let you bump start the car since the ign & fuel pump are good 2 go ( certian years only)


Mike
 

69MyWay

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Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Mike,

Are you talking about the VATS or the basic door lock alarm system? I thought they were two different things.
 

vms4evr

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Joined
Jul 18, 2001
Messages
466
Location
Durham, NC
Corvette
2002 Flat Black Z06
My friend put a generic keyless entry in my92. Much cheaper than the ones from MAD and all. If you hold the unlock button for a few seconds it also pops the hatchback. There is only 1 catch with it. If you use it to lock the doors he said it won't arm the VATS. So you have to use the power door lock on your way out of the car to arm it. That seems to be the only drawback with mine. I'm not sure how he wired it to make it work that way. If you use it to lock the doors and hit the button once it locks the car, hit it a second time and the horn beeps at you. Unlocking the car makes the parking lights flash and the interior lights come on until you get in the car and start it, or until the timer expires.
Graham
 

69MyWay

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Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
The only thing I can figure, is they may be doing it with a second set of lock actuators. In other words, they may have had actuators in the kit that they adapted to the lock rods in the door. So, he can lock and unlock with the keyless remote, and bypass the factory power door lock all together. Then, when he selects the factory door lock as he exist the car, it sets the alarm to armed.

I just want to isolate the wire that feeds back from the lock switch to the factory security system, and remove it. I don't think this will cause a problem with the VATS.

Maybe if anybody has the destructions to the MAD Vette kit, it points out what wire. I am still curious about the details on putting a reisitor in there. I have some around here, but not that particular size.
 

-=Jeff=-

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Feb 2, 2001
Messages
909
Location
Bartlett, IL. (Chicago Suburb)
Corvette
1990 ZR-1
I have been looking into this as well.. I have a GM universal keyless entry kit waiting to go in my vette, But I want to be able to set the alarm and shut it off.

If I lock the doors when exiting, using the Power Door Lock switch, the alarm will arm.. I am planning on setting up a relay to connect from Ground the the LT. GRN wire used to disarm the alarm. So when I press the unlock button on the remote the doors will unlock and the LT. Grm will get a quick pulse to Ground to shut the system off. I am still looking into seeing how I can get the alarm to arm off the remote.

I have more info at home on my PC.. I will need to look for it.
 

69MyWay

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Messages
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Auburndale, Florida
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1969 Killer Shark
-=Jeff=- said:
I have been looking into this as well.. I have a GM universal keyless entry kit waiting to go in my vette, But I want to be able to set the alarm and shut it off.

If I lock the doors when exiting, using the Power Door Lock switch, the alarm will arm.. I am planning on setting up a relay to connect from Ground the the LT. GRN wire used to disarm the alarm. So when I press the unlock button on the remote the doors will unlock and the LT. Grm will get a quick pulse to Ground to shut the system off. I am still looking into seeing how I can get the alarm to arm off the remote.

I have more info at home on my PC.. I will need to look for it.


Jeff, that is it. I think you are on to something there. It makes perfect sense. In other words, you will have the keyless entry do its thing, plus trigger the same ground wire that is triggered when you stick the key in the lock and disarm.

Hmmmmm, you have me thinking now that this may be more simple than I first imaginged, and I can keep the stock alarm in tact.

Thank you!
 

-=Jeff=-

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Joined
Feb 2, 2001
Messages
909
Location
Bartlett, IL. (Chicago Suburb)
Corvette
1990 ZR-1
69MyWay said:



Jeff, that is it. I think you are on to something there. It makes perfect sense. In other words, you will have the keyless entry do its thing, plus trigger the same ground wire that is triggered when you stick the key in the lock and disarm.

Hmmmmm, you have me thinking now that this may be more simple than I first imaginged, and I can keep the stock alarm in tact.

Thank you!

You got it...

Do you know if your Keyless entry has a grounding output?

would be listed as -500ma output...
 

69MyWay

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Jul 3, 2001
Messages
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Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Jeff,

The way I see it now, I hook up the keyless entry exactly the way the destructions suggest for the type of locks on the car. (including the rear hatch release option).

Then, I put a simple relay in the door panel that gets pulled closed when the unlock option is pushed. I go up to the two wires (I assume two) going to the key lock. I jumper inbetween those through the relay. So, when I hit unlock, the doors unlock at the same time, the connection is made through the key lock signal.

If this does the trick, why would I need any other resitors etc.?

Thanks for the ideas.
 

-=Jeff=-

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Joined
Feb 2, 2001
Messages
909
Location
Bartlett, IL. (Chicago Suburb)
Corvette
1990 ZR-1
69MyWay said:
Jeff,

Then, I put a simple relay in the door panel that gets pulled closed when the unlock option is pushed. I go up to the two wires (I assume two) going to the key lock. I jumper inbetween those through the relay. So, when I hit unlock, the doors unlock at the same time, the connection is made through the key lock signal.

not exactly..

set the relay so the coil portion of it goes from the unlock 12v (85) then to ground (86).

Then tap the lt. green to the relay common terminal (30).. and then Ground to the Normally Open terminal (87).

Edit= I have a Pic fo the relay terminals.. but cannot upload it from work..
 

69MyWay

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Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Okay, back to the drawing board.

At least I got the big block in the 69 tonight. That was a load off my shoulders.
 

-=Jeff=-

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Feb 2, 2001
Messages
909
Location
Bartlett, IL. (Chicago Suburb)
Corvette
1990 ZR-1
hey 69Myway,

could you post the wiring diagram for your Remote keyless entry? if not could you fax it? if you are going to fax it to me. email me at jdebuhr@attbi.com and I will send you a fax #
 

-=Jeff=-

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Feb 2, 2001
Messages
909
Location
Bartlett, IL. (Chicago Suburb)
Corvette
1990 ZR-1
69myway,

you also have mail.. hope it helps

Jeff
 

69MyWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Thanks to Jeff, and that exact same 92 pontiac relay that I used in the relay demo thread under general tech, the generic remote keyless is now functional.

Here is the 411.

First of all, Jeff really went above and beyond to help me out here. He faxed me some diagrams and proposed wiring arrangements based upon my generic instructions.

I ended up hooking the basic keyless entry wiring exactly as shown in the generic instructions, which were right on target with the diagram Jeff sent me. Then, I noticed he was showing taking the "light" green wire from the key lock switch (this is the one of the two wires that make a ground to the theft module when you unlock the door with the key, and deactivate the alarm). This key lock switch also triggers the interior lights when you twist the key.

Jeff noted that it was basically going to ground. I had to find some way of blitzing it for a split second with ground signal at the same time the unlock feature was being depressed on the keyless wire...............

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, how to do that. Well, I noticed on the jumper lead for the keyless system that it showed ground all the time on the unlock side of the power switch, except for a split second when unlock is selected.

I then re-configured my relay to be a normall closed unit by swaping the output wire. I tied this straight into the two wires going to the key door lock. I then ran power right off the main power for the coil in the relay. The same power that keeps the power door locks powered at all times. I then used the signal to the wire that jumpers the "unlock" option.

Long story short, the normall closed relay as long as the coil is energized stays open--thus breaking the connection. When you lock the car, it just locks and stays open. However upon unlocking the door, that break in the coil generated from a momentary loss of ground on the unlock wire causes the relay coil to close, thus tripping the ground signal to the theft system as if the key had been twisted.

Did you follow that?


Anyway, pulled it all off for less the $40. It also has the feature of popping the rear hatch. I had that working fine, but must have unhooked a wire when I put the door panel on as it is now not working. I will deal with that later.

Oh, one last thing. I mounted the small brain box for the keyless (about 2.5" x 3") on the door behind where a speaker box would normally be on a 84-89. I mounted the relay in the door frame in the very rear just inside and below where you would normally pop the hatch from.
 

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