Going from C4 to C5

[Bonnell]

When I bought my C5 I kept my '88 coupe thinking that I would drive it daily and use the C5 vert when I wanted. The problem is that after driving the C5 for a short time I simply did not want to drive the C4. This was mostly because of HP. 100 HP makes a big difference.

There are really good C5s out there for a steal.

 

[GO_VETTE]

I've thought about a TURBO but everyone I talk to says they're more trouble than they're worth. You have to baby 'em, maintain 'em and they never seem to work right. That's just what I've been told. My L98 has only a couple thousand miles on it (that's why she runs so good) so another engine is not a good idea. HP is an issue, probably the only issue that would get me out of a C4. Everyone's right. You can get into a C5 and it's a good fit, but the C4 wraps around you.

Yes, you have to maintain your turbo, just as you have to maintain your engine, maintain ur tranny.
And someone who says, that they never seem to run right? Yes, if someone who has never owned a turbo car, and never installed a turbo car, and does not know about tuning ecm's, has no clue about the types of systems available,, I agree the answer is simply they never seem to run right.
I am frustrated w/vague and nonsense talk of those who know nothing about the subject but speak as authority, Those who told you all of this bS. you should ask them, "what is it that does not run right on turbo? is it the compressor?
But to say that turbo, NOS, Superchargers dont run right is only true for an inexperienceed individual who has no experience in them, and has never driven a turbo car, and if they did, they probably dont know anything about air /fuel maps,timing curves, and dont have a clue what is a ROMULATOR, OSTRICH, RT TUNER SOFTWARE, EPROMs.
However to me it seems that you have made up your mind on C5, which is okay.

 

[warren s]

Yes, you have to maintain your turbo, just as you have to maintain your engine, maintain ur tranny.
And someone who says, that they never seem to run right? Yes, if someone who has never owned a turbo car, and never installed a turbo car, and does not know about tuning ecm's, has no clue about the types of systems available,, I agree the answer is simply they never seem to run right.
I am frustrated w/vague and nonsense talk of those who know nothing about the subject but speak as authority, Those who told you all of this bS. you should ask them, "what is it that does not run right on turbo? is it the compressor?
But to say that turbo, NOS, Superchargers dont run right is only true for an inexperienceed individual who has no experience in them, and has never driven a turbo car, and if they did, they probably dont know anything about air /fuel maps,timing curves, and dont have a clue what is a ROMULATOR, OSTRICH, RT TUNER SOFTWARE, EPROMs.
However to me it seems that you have made up your mind on C5, which is okay.

OK, as some one who has “Been there done that” a more accurate explanation would be “They need lots of attention to run right – and run right consistently” AND after all of that work you end up with a car that’s similar to the performance of a later model car but you spent lots of money you will never get back and the car is pretty much worthless by comparison.

The whole process reminds me of the ricer guys that spend countless thousands to make a Honda as quick as an early model C4 Corvette.

Another issue with putting a blower or turbo on an early C4 is that the availability of systems or fully engineered and thoroughly tested packages are few and far between. However the C5 has about a dozen or so made by various vendors and they are complete packages with many options such as being intercooled or not. More recently I helped a friend put a system with a Maggie on his 01 C5, it was like putting together model. There was pretty much no guess work, no fabricating anything and the tune was the same for all driving conditions.

The aftermarket is pretty much unlimited for C5s by comparison to C4s.

 

[GO_VETTE]

Well, here is the deal, Cars do not appreciate.
if new Vette or old.
The turbo kits, made for C5's still need some modifications. Not every kit you buy is the best on market. You may find that the kit had a cheap intercooler or cheap parts matched up.
Yes the C4's have limited things-->when speaking turbo and superchargers-however-you can be put it together.
It is not hard to get a Turbonetics,42lb injectors,44mm wastegates, blow off valves, oil drain plugs, and braided lines,and buy the BEST intercooler.
The only thing you need is exhaust to be fabricated, intercooler, turbo pipes. AND you can get it designed how you find it best suitable.

the rest of the process in terms of installing, and tuning is same as one would do it to a C5 or C6, but cheaper in labor for c4's than c5 and c6's.

total cost for c5/c6 superchargers range between $5500-6500-8500 kits whereas a kit you can assemle between 3500-4500. And if you want a pre designed C4 supercharger kit, $4200 for an ATI.
However, if one wants just a 100 HP. Go the most affordable way.
100 HP can be achieved w/ a simple Nitrous oxide kit.
MUST be installed by a race shop which is familiar with what they are doing.
Cost? $571.00 for C4 TPI kit by NOS, and I would spend another $451.00 for Accel Mastermind Nitrous control system, and a $25.00 for bottle bag, and maybe $30.00 for high flow valves.
Gain 100HP cost analysis. $1200/100=$12.00 per 1 horsepower.

 

[GO_VETTE]

Here are the cars I have owned.
1978 Camaro
1983 Z28 5.0L H.O. (converted toa roller 5.7 L motor w/ 5 speed Borg Warner, holley Carb on Edelbrock manifold)
1987 Dodge Conquest TURBOcharged aka Mitsubish Starion
1986 Buick Regal
1996 Ford Thunderbird
.....some cars owned which have no interest to CAC readers
1994 Cadilac Fleetwood (strong ass 5.7L engine, many miles, miles)
1967 Austin Fx4 aka London Cab (custom built)
2004 Mercedes Benz S500
...........I wanted to get a Corvette.........
buddies told me buy a C6, C5, but I went with a 1984 Corvette L83 5.7L Tuned Port Injection 9original engine)
Z51E suspension *e for enhanced than the standard Z51,
I am planning on getting 4 piston Wilwood calipers w/ BMW 540i rotors- or I would prefer 6 piston caliper WITHOUT putting bigger rims, I like the 16 inch factory rims. I know for a fact the 4 piston can be done, but need to measure the 6 piston.
I think I would rather be on my c4 than the Benz during summer time.

 

[warren s]

Well, here is the deal, Cars do not appreciate.
if new Vette or old.

No they don’t, but making an older C4 as fast as a newer C5 is a major investment of time and money, and the C5 will still be worth more when your done, face it – its rare anyone keeps their Vette forever. And the OP was asking about stock Corvettes, not a project.

The turbo kits, made for C5's still need some modifications. Not every kit you buy is the best on market. You may find that the kit had a cheap intercooler or cheap parts matched up.

Actually there are a number of forced induction kits for C5s that are full bolt on and need zero user modifications – some even come with a hand held tuner.

Yes the C4's have limited things-->when speaking turbo and superchargers-however-you can be put it together.
It is not hard to get a Turbonetics,42lb injectors,44mm wastegates, blow off valves, oil drain plugs, and braided lines,and buy the BEST intercooler.
The only thing you need is exhaust to be fabricated, intercooler, turbo pipes. AND you can get it designed how you find it best suitable.

You have to be kidding, that’s a major project. Why don’t you just replace the motor with a 383 crate engine while you at it? Exactly how many of these “easy” projects have you actually done?

the rest of the process in terms of installing, and tuning is same as one would do it to a C5 or C6, but cheaper in labor for c4's than c5 and c6's.

That’s ridiculous, do you really think labor or tuning is priced by make and model? Did you deal with Corvettes shops that told you that?

total cost for c5/c6 superchargers range between $5500-6500-8500 kits whereas a kit you can assemle between 3500-4500. And if you want a pre designed C4 supercharger kit, $4200 for an ATI.

The kits are completely different, with many variables for the C5 that are not options for the C4.

However, if one wants just a 100 HP. Go the most affordable way.
100 HP can be achieved w/ a simple Nitrous oxide kit.
MUST be installed by a race shop which is familiar with what they are doing.
Cost? $571.00 for C4 TPI kit by NOS, and I would spend another $451.00 for Accel Mastermind Nitrous control system, and a $25.00 for bottle bag, and maybe $30.00 for high flow valves.
Gain 100HP cost analysis. $1200/100=$12.00 per 1 horsepower.

Getting back to the point of the post, C4s and C5s are both great cars – you can get a C4 and modify it to outrun a C5 – or get a C5 bone stock and just drive it. Simple bolt ons – long tube headers ,cat back system, cold air induction will put a C5 close to consistent 11s – and it will still be a docile daily driver.

 

[GO_VETTE]

*for c4 guys, your handheld is the EPROM programmer by Transtronics $249.95***
or you can get it from MOATES

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[GO_VETTE]

If it takes you 8 hours to do a job turbocharger (mounted underhood, next to headers requires little of no removal of parts) vs 16 hours to do a STS turbo job on ur C5 (mounted over rear end, requires removing rear end to mount turbos and installing rear)
I guess the technician installing the STS is cool with taking 8 hour labor?
you are absolutely correct
The technician installing an (major project)STS will charge you $720.00 or $720 for a turbo mounted in engine bay near headers( simple task)
I think we all gotta check out warrens techs.
If that is the case, I will alow them to smoke a lil pot while working. NOT ALOT!

 

[warren s]

Ok, now it’s just getting silly – You should stick to drawing pictures. I see why you found other forums not to appreciative of your contributions.

Oh- and the STS system doesn’t require the removal of the rear end on a C5 nor is it a 16 hour job.; guess you missed that episode of power block TV. (Or two guys garage)


Getting back to original question of this thread –

One thing the C4 does have an advantage in is replacement cost of the clutch and associated parts. If you pay some one else to work on your car – the clutch replacement on a C5 can set you back close to a grand more than a C4 clutch job.

 

[G Winter]

One thing the C4 does have an advantage in is replacement cost of the clutch and associated parts. If you pay some one else to work on your car – the clutch replacement on a C5 can set you back close to a grand more than a C4 clutch job.

Are you including the dual mass flywheel system that is used on the ZF in that price difference ?

Glenn

 

[warren s]

Are you including the dual mass flywheel system that is used on the ZF in that price difference ?

Glenn

No, I was just thinking of the clutch parts, the notorious C5 pilot bearing and the extra labor to remove the rear end, and torque tube.

 

[GO_VETTE]

the 2 guys garage and REVIEWS of STS turbo

my response

Ok, now it’s just getting silly – You should stick to drawing pictures. I see why you found other forums not to appreciative of your contributions.
Thank you Warren

Oh- and the STS system doesn’t require the removal of the rear end on a C5 nor is it a 16 hour job.; guess you missed that episode of power block TV. (Or two guys garage)
Did not miss it, in matter of fact, They missed the part where they were installing 90% of the hardwaremounted over the rear end. Instead they were only showing the part where they finish it up w/ the last pipe. check the link for yourself.

YouTube - STS Turbo Corvette on 2 Guys Garage
Why are the reviews so bad? see them under the you tube video.
that s all I have say my dear Corvette fella-> Warren.


Getting back to original question of this thread –

One thing the C4 does have an advantage in is replacement cost of the clutch and associated parts. If you pay some one else to work on your car – the clutch replacement on a C5 can set you back close to a grand more than a C4 clutch job.

 

[adfac]

Wow! I can see I'm way over my head if I go the Turbo route. I'd be better off just buying the extra hp in a new engine (probably cheaper, too) ... or if I really want more hp, just get a C5. I still think a vette is a vette ... and all vette owners are special, regardless of year or hp. Thanks guys for your input.

 

[GO_VETTE]

Your welcome.
C5's are good cars. They are comfortable compared to C4's.NO doubt at all.
options:

1.If you are concerned w/ Horsepower.>
a.Then NOS is the way to go.$
b.Turbo or Supercharge ($$$)
c. Build a 406 cubic inch.($$$)
2.But if ride comfort w/ HP is important..)buy a c5. ($$$$)
3. if you just want a new style, buy a c5
4. if you want HP,comfort and have no patience, and need to pay monthly, cannot layout cash, then $3,000 down and finance your C5.
good luck.

 

[adfac]

if you want HP,comfort and have no patience, and need to pay monthly, cannot layout cash, then $3,000 down and finance your C5.
good luck.

You're right there. At least my 86 is paid for!