Heads and Cam

[jorge33265]

How hard is it to get a 1997 auto to run low 12s high 11s?
I figure I would need about 450 hp? Can this be done with Just heads Cam and an upgraded torque converter? Does anyone know of any packages out there? This car is a daily driver and Im stuck in trafic allot so I dont want something to radical that the car is going to overheat all the time...I was considering the lingfielder supercharger but its about $6,000 if I install. Thanks

 

[vet346]

Heads & cam

Jorge,

Put a page out for Redgar, he is running an A4 that runs in the 11's.

Stock heads to boot..

Ernie

 

[ZZRider]

Hi jorge33265.
There are ways to get your 97 C5 into the low 12's/11's. Speed/power = $$$$. I think the 3 most cost effective ways would be:
1) Nitrous
2) Heads/Cam package
3) Forced Induction

Nitrous- is pretty cost effective, likely the best "bang for the buck". It's there only when you need/want it, otherwise you run stock so its very drivable. It can be a hassle to keep filled. Has some risks. I had it on my 383, ran a 200 shot, 620/680 RWHP/RWT, never a problem. You'd probably want a wet system, could likely go 100-150 shot on a stock engine, above that I think runs too much risk. I think a full featured safe setup will run you ~$1500-2000 (you can get cheaper, but you need all the safety features in my opinion, not worth the risk to me without)

Heads/Cam- cost effective, naturally aspirated. The better H/C packages are putting out numbers comparable to 383 strokers at far less cost. Not to plug any specific tuner, but for example Cartek has a packages with guys running low 11's and high 10s, and 450/410 RW numbers. I think the better tuners can get you into low 12's and high 11's with H/C packages pretty easily. Look to spend $2500-3500 ready to install and return of core, installation extra.

Forced Induction- this is probably comparable in cost to a good H/C package or a bit more. Superchariging is presently a bit less expensive than turbo. Centrifugal (ATI, Vortech) and the roots (Magnacharger) are available. There are pros/cons of each setup. I'm presently into a 422 with an ATI F1 blower, I needed that rush of power the N20 gave me, but always present and no tanks to refill. A single turbo package is available, good numbers, a little more expensive than a SC set, but far more affordable than the LPE twin turbos. $5000-7000. You'll pay more to have installed, probably close to $7500-8000.

This just scratches the surface in these areas. I'd be happy to answer questions and share what I know; I'm no mechanic and what I know is what I've read up on, so take it for what its worth. I'd suggest reading up on this as much as you can, then contact a reputable tuner and discuss your goals with them. They can point you in the right direction for what you want, your budget, etc. For most of this stuff, its only a matter of how much you want to spend.

 

[sscam69]

Why don't you try putting a 02 ZO6 cam and ported heads with the LS6 intake, headers, Cold air intake (CAI) and get the car professionally tuned. Oh and a higher stall will help launching from a stop with some good tires i.e. nittos.

Its been pretty well established that ZO6's run low twelves and with the above mentioned mods you should be able to achieve your goal and have stock idle with excellent daily drivability. Actually you would be making a true sleeper!

Any challenger just won't know what hit em!

 

[Ling_650vette]

PLENTY of good cams, heads, exhaust companies out there for the C5s.

MTI has quite a few cars in the 10s, so does Agostino, Lingenfelter, LS1 Motorsports etc, etc.

I'd have to say take the advice of sscam. If you've got that much to spend overall, then go for it. But a good cam (Thunder Racing has some sweet cams that yield good gains yet keep good idle, try something w/ a 114 lsa) and ported heads w/a torque converter will be the main things you'll need. Nitrous and forced induction isn't 100% needed, but its there. The LPE supercharger is amazing, and when used w/ their cams they get over 500rwhp!!

Best bet overall start doin like a Donoldson Blackwing filter, LS6 intake, good cam (LS6 cam is a great choice, same w/ the LS1 hot cam) and good exhaust as well as good flowing heads. Yank Torque Converters are good. I hate to plug a non-sponser'd site but LS1tech.com has a boat load of info, and some of the fastest LS1 powered cars running today are on there. Check them out. Good luck, and keep it rubber side down!!!

 

[JBsC5]

I think a magnasum supercharger installed by an ASE qualitified mechanic..with the 36K/36 month drivetrain warranty is the best way to go.

Even though its about 8 grand installed I don't believe you would need to do a convertor and gears..which usually runs 2500-3000 by itself. Heads and cam..or just cam..you really should do convertor and gears..yet with the supercharger I don't think you would need to..(guessing since the power hits pretty hard low in rpm range) Plus you get a 36K/36 month extended warranty for the entire drivetrain..

Streetability on supercharger is its forte..(double check on whether a convertor would be necessary but I don't think so)

Vette doctors are a tuner that comes to mind that sometimes run heads and cam specials for 5200 installed..then figure..2500-3000 for convertor and gears..(3500 yank 1.6str and 3:42 or better gearing)

I was going to go that route and then decided to buy a Z06 for about the same money..once I added in the cost of a wheel and tire package..

YOu can sell your car at now I've just this past week seen mint 2001 Z06's (chrome rims) with 10K miles sell for 34 grand..

Might be what you want if you don't mind shifting.

 

[JBsC5]

BTW..if you just do a yank 3500/3.42 with intake and pcm and you'll most probably run....12.4 @ 111- 113mph..(drag radials)

3 grand.

Add a cam for 1500 along with headers for another 900 and you'll be cooking too..

2400 dollars.

I would suggest doing this all together so the pcm upgrades are costed out in one shot of 500 dollars vs. two separate 500 dollar bills..

I wouldn't suggest used parts with the cam..gears or convertor. JMO Headers maybe..

I definitely would suggest a very reputable shop..relatively local to you.

This way when its done..you have less to be concerned about.

 

[jorge33265]

I really wanted a 6 speed but I just got a really good deal on this car. 16,000 dollars so I'll deal with the auto. The car has 69,000 Im leaning twards the supercharger kit that comes with PCM and Injector upgrade but its about 6,000. Cant wait till its tax return time.. who needs a vacation anyways... Any thoughts on NOS for the mean time? Is it safe to run a 75 or 100 shot or should I stick to a 50 shot b/c of my miles?

 

[sscam69]

You just might want to hold off on that NOS. You don't want to weaken the engine before you strap on that supercharger.

Add a cam for 1500

:eek Thats a bit high! Performance cams for these engines cost about $400. Not including titanium retainers, springs, pushrods etc but in the end I don't think they add up to that much.


jorge are you going to be doing the work yourself?

I am looking for the same thing you are as far as times are concerned so let me tell you how I am going to achieve it, or at the very least what my plans are.

As much as I love vettes I am going to have to go with a WS6 T/A. I just love the aggressive looks of the car.

Shooting for a high 11's to mid 11's car.

Mods
-02 ZO6 cam ~$200

-SDPC CNC ported LS6 heads ~$750 ea.
** ported to work with the 02 LS6 cam, sodium filled valves (lightweight, easier on valvetrain), titanium valvetrain components.

-Holley Intake ~$500+porting work $???
** Ported by LPE. According to Ed Potter they have seen gains of 10-15hp over the stock LS6 intake with port matching and some internal porting.

-Long tube headers from Jet-Hot ~$500

-True dual exhaust with X-pipe from Dr. Gas out to Borla spiral baffel bullets dumped before differential. ~$???

-Removed WS6 hood baffels $free mod

-Ported Throttle body ~$???

-MAF ends ~$???

-Whisper lid ~$150

-Tuned (by me ) $free software & equipment ~$1500

and a 12 bolt w/ 3.73's (on an M6) better clutch to! $???

Thats my recipe. Friendly idle and daily driving abilitys and probably one of the cheapest ways to soup up these LS1 engines! I indicated the price of the stuff, or at least the stuff that I know about.

The second factor is the ability to drive your car. I have seen poeple with some really powerful cars but they just don't know how to drive them or take them to their full potential. Mastering your driving skills is important!

I hope this helps you out.

 

[Ling_650vette]

w/ the springs, retainers and all that, it depends on the agressive ness of the cam. You could do a hot cam or some of the Thunder Racing ones, and keep the stock everything, but some cams like some from TR and MTI require all that extra stuff. LS1 cars seem to pull some damn good #s from head/cam work. And esp when the exhaust is opened up, holy poop!!!

It all comes down to your budget. A supercharger would be nice, but if you go w/ a MagnaCharger, you WILL need a new hood. And some places, thats extra...If you go w/ a Vortech or ATI Procharger, or even a Paxton (dunno if they've got C5 kits) then you probably wont require a new hood since they're centrefugal, and fit in a diff spot. All depends on your budget once again. Heads/cam is a good mod, but a blower isnt bad either...

 

[jorge33265]

Yup im planning on doing the work myself. Not the tuning part though. Yea budget is an issue I just had a baby so Im kind of limited for now... Maybe I'll do gears or something with a light shot of nos maybe 50hp for now.. The problem with gears is that I dont want to lose that pull I get at 90mph... Most of my friends have new carreras so I have to be able to pull on the top..

 

[Ling_650vette]

honestly, if you're thinking about nitrous, go w/ a heads/cam package now. Me personally, only way i'd run two power adders (like nitrous : supercharger) is if i was using the nitrous to spray the intercooler, not the motor itself.

Both installs arent out of the question to do in a driveway (as long as you've got all the needed tools) may be a pain since the placement of the motor is rather weird, some people complain they cant do some things towards the rear of the motor...but @ least in a C5 the motors out a lot more then on the Fbodys.

Hope all goes well

 

[JBsC5]

Amazing price for the car....Congrats!

Whatever you do it will be a ****er..an especial congratulations for the new baby..

BTW..when I was talking prices of cam etc..I included labor..

If your doing the installs yourself..the prices that were posted by others are close to what you'd spend.

Have a happy new year and enjoy the project.

 

[sscam69]

Both installs arent out of the question to do in a driveway

:confused

This was when I swapped my cam.

 

[sscam69]

BTW garage was turned into a game/entertainment room.

If you have to do it in the driveway just make sure you have ALL the parts in your hand when your going to swap out the cam. Even then your going to have to make a few trips to the parts store.

Keep us posted

Frank

 

[jorge33265]

Thanks, for your help.. Im thinking Im going to go the heads and cam route for now. My friend just put his 99 SS on the Dyno and got about 410 rear wheel with heads cam exhaust ect.. I just dont want to spend allot of money then Dyno the car to find out I got 40 hp out of it. With the supercharger your getting at least 100 extra hp. If I could find a Head Cam package for a daily driver that will give me 75- 100 more ponies it would be good. Also if anyone is interested Hurricane performance is Ft. Lauderdale also has a Black 97 C5 for 18, something.. It has about 70,000 miles though but if you want to get into a C5 its not a bad place to start. I got mine with about 65000 miles for 16000 plus tax then added a 3year 36 mile warranty for $1800. I did some research and this warranty covers everthing I could think of including ABS Headlight motors Stock Radio Digital Head for AC which is $800 dollars in the dealer. Not bad If anyone is interested I will give you the info..

 

[cscollis]

Thanks, for your help.. Im thinking Im going to go the heads and cam route for now. My friend just put his 99 SS on the Dyno and got about 410 rear wheel with heads cam exhaust ect.. I just dont want to spend allot of money then Dyno the car to find out I got 40 hp out of it. With the supercharger your getting at least 100 extra hp. If I could find a Head Cam package for a daily driver that will give me 75- 100 more ponies it would be good. Also if anyone is interested Hurricane performance is Ft. Lauderdale also has a Black 97 C5 for 18, something.. It has about 70,000 miles though but if you want to get into a C5 its not a bad place to start. I got mine with about 65000 miles for 16000 plus tax then added a 3year 36 mile warranty for $1800. I did some research and this warranty covers everthing I could think of including ABS Headlight motors Stock Radio Digital Head for AC which is $800 dollars in the dealer. Not bad If anyone is interested I will give you the info..

Look at my mods, good for low to mid 12's on street tires, I dont know what i would run on et streets but maybe a high 11.