How do I get into the 13's at the track?

[Hrtbeat1]

But my concern is it's a daily driver. Would 3.54's be ok for daily use? Like on the highway, would I just have higher rpm's? And last Q is what is the average price for the gear swap?
Thanks

I've always gone for excess. I swapped the whole rear for a D44 with 3.45's every thing bolted right up, except the drive shaft and C-Beam. I knew about this before hand and was prepared. I picked up a C-Beam and driveshaft from a manual from Dino's Corvette for $250. The rear I got off Ebay .... actually from a member here ... for a little over $2K with shipping. I was looking for one with 3.33's being a somewhat daily driver. Got out bid a couple of days earlier. Actually I'm glad it happened. With the 3.45's, cruising at 75 - 80 I'm spinning around 2400 - 2500 RPM in OD. My torque converter is a 2200 and I think the 3.33's would have been closer to having it lock/unlock at cruising speed. Before I might spin a tire from a dead stop, but now from a roll I can shift to second and still this is pretty much at will from stop to about around 10 MPH. To keep from spinning during a launch I try and keep the RPM's around 2000 or below, actually I my brake torque is between 1500 - 1750, not much pedal at all. I'm running Firestone SZ-50's that hook pretty good when warm but they take a LOT of heat to actually warm up. These are great for a "spirited" daily driver bad thing is they don't make them anymore.

I would spend the $300 on a set of Drag Radials. I bet they get you to the 13's. I've heard good things about just about every brand made, so I guess its "pick your brand." None of the Drag Radials will give you long life so it would be best to have these mounted on a seperate set of wheels.

My setup is pretty much the same as yours. I've done the AIR thing and the TB bypass (do it ... very easy ... can be done for $5 or less). I have done some tuning to the chip in mine. I haven't run mine at the track yet, according to a G-tech I was getting 60ft times in the 2.1 - 2.0 range before the gear swap. Now I'm right around 1.7 - 1.9 depending on wheel spin. I really need to go to the track ... its only about 7 miles away ... every Wednesday.

AdvancedAutoCC I've heard that for every .1 you gain in the 1/4 it equates to a 10 HP gain. Does this sound accurate?

 

[87blackroxi]

87blackroxi, what track did you race at? I'm just curious because I'm waiting for the temperature to drop a little and will be going to Bradenton to get some baselines before I do my Head/Cam. I'm thinking I might go up there in September.


Greg

Bradenton is where I went last week. it was about 80 degrees at around 9:00pm. Lots of humidity. So I'm sure my time wasn't the best I can get from my set up now. Once it cools off we'll definately meet up there and get some runs in.

 

[87blackroxi]

. I was looking for one with 3.33's being a somewhat daily driver. Got out bid a couple of days earlier. Actually I'm glad it happened. With the 3.45's, cruising at 75 - 80 I'm spinning around 2400 - 2500 RPM in OD. nd 10 MPH. I would spend the $300 on a set of Drag Radials. I bet they get you to the 13's. I've heard good things about just about every brand made, so I guess its "pick your brand." None of the Drag Radials will give you long life so it would be best to have these mounted on a seperate set of wheels.

So you think more towards 3.45's on the gears? 2500 rpm's isn't too bad on the highway either.
And it should have a bit more go with those gears! Any ideas if it will shave a little off the 1/4 times?

 

[AdvancedAutoCC]

So you think more towards 3.45's on the gears? 2500 rpm's isn't too bad on the highway either.
And it should have a bit more go with those gears! Any ideas if it will shave a little off the 1/4 times?

To address your concerns:

#1 - yes
#2 - yes
#3 - yes

Weather is a major factor as well in determining quarter mile performance, and yes..you're likely to see a gain of at least a tenth when the weather cools off alone. But get the tires first! Not to keep harping, but you can't accurately track mod gains when the traction factor varies with wheelspin. And do ONE THING AT A TIME! This way you can see what each successive thing does.

One last thing...If you're planning on any kind of regular visits to the track, you may do well to get some weather instruments to establish weather conditions as they relate to performance. Nothing fancy, just a good thermometer/hygrometer and a barometer is a bonus. You can get a decent weather setup at your local Home Depot (Weather Channel collection made by Oregon Scientific is a good inexpensive "hobby" type setup). Get a simple spiral bound notebook to keep track of conditions, tire pressure, etc. You can log all your mods, whatever in there as well.

Good luck!

 

[lawless99]

Hi Shane, this is Mark from Jim's party at Gio's, what's up! Those track times are pretty good, practice will make them better. I have not heard you mention what gears are in your car now. You can look at the option list located on the inside of your console lid and look for code G92 which would indicate that you have performance 3.07 ratio. If you don't see this code then you have the regular ratio of 2.xx? You should start doing some research on torque converters in the 2200-2400 range (yank and pro-torque are good) combine that with a 3.07 or 3.33 and you could knock as much as half a second or more off your time with DR's.
I have used the air pump eliminator and 3 piece pulleys and they do help a little. I also have a modified MAF left over from my 88 that will work in your car if you are interested in one of those.

 

[Edmond]

I think regular gears are 2.59's.

I don't know how well this would work but I read stories about guys keeping their car off for as long as possible and icing the intake before they run to keep it cool. Some even go as far as pushing the vehicle into the staging area.

 

[Legion21]

Ed, I used to race a 94 LT1 Z28 on a weekly basis, and they are very tempermental when it comes to engine temps. I would pop the hood, Ice the Intake and use a bug sprayer filled with water to spray the radiator between rounds. I would have to pull my old time slips, but if I remember correctly I have seen some serious gains in ET from racing my car below 185* water temps, as much as 1-2 tenths verses temps in the 200*+ range.


Greg

 

[Aurora40]

I'd bet you could do it for less than $1. Just wait until October and then go to the track.

 

[87blackroxi]

Hi Shane, this is Mark from Jim's party at Gio's, what's up! Those track times are pretty good, practice will make them better. I have not heard you mention what gears are in your car now. You can look at the option list located on the inside of your console lid and look for code G92 which would indicate that you have performance 3.07 ratio. If you don't see this code then you have the regular ratio of 2.xx? You should start doing some research on torque converters in the 2200-2400 range (yank and pro-torque are good) combine that with a 3.07 or 3.33 and you could knock as much as half a second or more off your time with DR's.
I have used the air pump eliminator and 3 piece pulleys and they do help a little. I also have a modified MAF left over from my 88 that will work in your car if you are interested in one of those.

Hey mark,
I actually saw marcia today at Florida executive when I had stopped in.
As far as the gears, unfortunately I have 2.59's So an upgrade is in order. And I might take a look at torque converters too.
But ya I might be interested in the MAF you have. Marcia gave me your # today, so i'll give you a ring this week.

 

[AdvancedAutoCC]

Keeping it cool

Ed, Greg,

Icing the intake is pretty much a waste of time, (not to mention a PITA) and you could get waved off for dripping water onto the track surface (THAT will make you all kinds of new friends at the track!). Pushing the car in the lanes will help keep it cooler, but you better have some buddies with you to push! A lot of this is too much extra effort for a simple street car and really doesn't do much in the grand scheme of things.

Bet bet is to do some creative wiring to allow for manual control of the fans, that way you can control the coolant temp.
I think perhaps we may need a sticky for drag racing tips, etc. I'd be happy to write up some stuff, based upon my experiences racing over the last 20 years. People can contribute, etc. What do you guys think?

 

[DRTH VTR]

I think that there are two ways of looking at this. If you want the fastest times, then that is one thing. If you want to win bracket races, consistency is what matters. I have run as low as 12.42 (at apx 6000 ft DA). But when I go for fastest speeds, I lose the bracket races due to inconsistency. If I just concern myself with doing it the same each time (regular engine operating temperature, consistent launch, etc), then I can win some rounds. I run about 12.6-12.7 much more consistently than I can run 12.4's. I hope this makes sense.

 

[87blackroxi]

Ed, Greg,

I think perhaps we may need a sticky for drag racing tips, etc. I'd be happy to write up some stuff, based upon my experiences racing over the last 20 years. People can contribute, etc. What do you guys think?

I'm for that! It would help alot of people having a central thread that can always be accessed for drag racing tips. I'm sure alot of the track veterans on here would be happy to post up tips and info.
Maybe we should talk to Ken.

 

[Legion21]

Bob, I also had my Z28 wired with a manual fan control switch, sat on the dash on the right side of the steering wheel, and even wired in a Harley Neutral dash light to leave no doubt when I had my fans on. People who say the switch always thought I had nitrous LOL.


Greg

 

[DRTH VTR]

When I am in the approach lanes and my car is running, I turn on the a/c. It turns on the radiator cooling fans. That is not nearly as good as a manual switch like Legion21 suggests, but it helps me have the same engine temperature for each pass. I turn it off, turn off the traction control, etc as I approach the staging area.

 

[Mad-Mic]

Do all the above or buy a z06 and go directely into the 12s.

wanna race?

on a brighter note i guess i am one of the backwords thinking builders here when it comes to A4 C4's. LAST thing i will touch is the gears. i know my car is a solid 12 second car. how solid i don't know i haven't been to the track since i got the tune finally complete. (damn heated O2 sensors) my point about gears is this. YES 3.73's will knock off probably closer to .8 in the 1/4 BUT once you go with a lower (smaller) gear you have less gear overlap more less 1 tooth messing into 2 tooth unlike our higher (fatter) gears with a more overlap. where am i getting at? Ask yourself where you are taking this car now before you go any further. building up a Dana 36 rear is fruitless. once you get to 400 rwtq your on borrowed time. i'm probably very very close and i'm still totally bone stock from TB to oil pan on the motor and stock stall/trans with the stock 2.59 gears. my dyno numbers should be hovering around 300 rwhp and 400 rwtq. so instead of putting money into gears and having to pay for the install i will save that money and put it towards a Dana 44 rear with 3.45's in it. it's around 2k to buy it and have it installed. i will pass and run this Dana 36 2.59 geared car in the ground. to date i haven't seen ANYONE with a bone stock motor from TB to oil pan run a 13.10 @ 106 mph. i backed it up with another 13.10 but lost 4 mph due to the tune being super rich. add that mph back into the calculations and i'm looking at 12.70's at 108+ mph. i also pull 1.80 60' times on STREET Tires. granted these were Goodyear F1 D3's set at 18.5 psi HEATED. doing this all on a stock 1600 stall converter.

every little mod helps. they are all supporting mods for the bigger mods. on the street right now i am running yokohama's on the rear in 285/40/17's and spin them over at will all the way to a 30 roll. nail it at 30 mph in 1st gear car just fish tails.

the trick to these cars with these gears is to shorten what i call the Dead Spot. 1600 rpm - 2600 rpm our cars are dogs especially getting it off the line. it's all in the launch. i can drop the hammer on the street from a dig and you'd swear i dropped the clutch at 1600 rpm. i've had alot of people ask me if i'm a M6 car. 2 factors will shorten that Dead Spot. #1 is Horsepower. #2 is launch.

DR's are good but only last so hard and grip so much but for your car i would recommend the Nitto's. they can last upto 15k in miles and is good for rain also unlike BFG or MT DR's.

 

[87blackroxi]

Ask yourself where you are taking this car now before you go any further. building up a Dana 36 rear is fruitless. once you get to 400 rwtq your on borrowed time. i'm probably very very close and i'm still totally bone stock from TB to oil pan on the motor and stock stall/trans with the stock 2.59 gears. my dyno numbers should be hovering around 300 rwhp and 400 rwtq.

That's maybe all i want to get to, around 300hp. tq is good now but I'll always take some more. As far as the gears, I don't want to get too crazy with 3.73's. I am now thinking more like 3.33's or so.

to date i haven't seen ANYONE with a bone stock motor from TB to oil pan run a 13.10 @ 106 mph. i backed it up with another 13.10 but lost 4 mph due to the tune being super rich. add that mph back into the calculations and i'm looking at 12.70's at 108+ mph. i also pull 1.80 60' times on STREET Tires.

your #'s are always impressive. Someday I would like to get in the low 13's and that would be it for me. Happiness.
one question though. When you say tune. are you talking dyno tune? I ask cause I know my car isn't tuned correctly right now. never has a steady idle and always get that popping sound like gas in the exhaust burning up.

Thanks Mic

 

[Vettefan87]

Yeah I thought my car was running super rich because it will "back cackle" when I downshift every once in a while...sometimes it does it a lot sometimes it doesn't. It is a very cool sound though :cool. But when I pulled the plugs they all looked fairly clean.

 

[Mad-Mic]

Ask yourself where you are taking this car now before you go any further. building up a Dana 36 rear is fruitless. once you get to 400 rwtq your on borrowed time. i'm probably very very close and i'm still totally bone stock from TB to oil pan on the motor and stock stall/trans with the stock 2.59 gears. my dyno numbers should be hovering around 300 rwhp and 400 rwtq.

That's maybe all i want to get to, around 300hp. tq is good now but I'll always take some more. As far as the gears, I don't want to get too crazy with 3.73's. I am now thinking more like 3.33's or so.

to date i haven't seen ANYONE with a bone stock motor from TB to oil pan run a 13.10 @ 106 mph. i backed it up with another 13.10 but lost 4 mph due to the tune being super rich. add that mph back into the calculations and i'm looking at 12.70's at 108+ mph. i also pull 1.80 60' times on STREET Tires.

your #'s are always impressive. Someday I would like to get in the low 13's and that would be it for me. Happiness.
one question though. When you say tune. are you talking dyno tune? I ask cause I know my car isn't tuned correctly right now. never has a steady idle and always get that popping sound like gas in the exhaust burning up.

Thanks Mic

what i mean by the tune is not in the ecm. it's making sure everything is running right. checking plugs for AF, dialing in the timing, making sure the rotor button isn't fried amongst other little things like arcing wires or burnt wires, bosch plat +4 plugs that suck after a few miles on them. tune it like you would if it was carbed.

BTW i am on a stock chip still.

 

[lawless99]

one question though. When you say tune. are you talking dyno tune? I ask cause I know my car isn't tuned correctly right now. never has a steady idle and always get that popping sound like gas in the exhaust burning up.

I thought I heard a few problems with your idle when I saw your car the other night but I did not want to mention it until I had more info. Some of the basic things to consider are have you ever removed and cleaned your throttle body? You will need to buy a throttle body gasket to replace your old one on reassembly. While your in there you want to remove and clean/replace the IAC (idle air control) valve, this could be part of your idle problem. Another larger project to consider is how old/miles are on your fuel injectors? As they get older they get clogged and leaky. You can buy a nice set for probably around $300 and I will show you how to install them. The obvious plugs, wires, cap & rotor, timing are all easy. Throttle position sensor (TPS) should be checked and adjusted to factory spec. The fact that your car ran 14.2 with a "bad" tune is good news because it tells me your engine is strong and with a few tweaks it can be even better.

 

[87blackroxi]

never has a steady idle and always get that popping sound like gas in the exhaust burning up.

That's exactly what mine does!

Some of the basic things to consider are have you ever removed and cleaned your throttle body? While your in there you want to remove and clean/replace the IAC (idle air control) valve, this could be part of your idle problem.

This is something I have been wanting to do but I just don't know how to do it. I've heard this helps alot and really want to get it done.

Another larger project to consider is how old/miles are on your fuel injectors?

And with 147k on the engine and being 18 years old, I'm sure it would be a good idea to change them out.

So Marcia tells me you have a good sized garage? Perhaps you might take bribes from me so we could work on my car there. Maybe some Newcastle or guinness?