I give up

[TomOB]

What a horrible day, heh. I finally get a lead on a good sounding car, not the fix-me-please ones i've been chasing. Guy leads me to believe he has an 80 l82 with 62k and the only problem is a squeak in the back brake. Wowo, sounds great. So i wake up extra early, drag the family on a 190mile cruise, look at the car and see all the wrong things. The engine bay is a mess, the frame has lots of surface rust, the interior is ripped, cracked and faded, the A/C doesnt work, the blower motor only works on high, the "new' paint job is cracked. Then i ask to take off the t-tops and he doesn't understand why i would want to in the cold. "well, i want to make sure they work!!!!" he responds "absolutely not, youll get the car wet"
all the above problems, the guy said the opposite (ie, no rist, a/c works, perfect interior) Did i mention that the VIN indicates a L48 (thank you CAC)?
The guy was telling me all about how he drove it around on friday to get it ready, when i get in the car, the side view mirrors are looking dead at the rear fenders, i could even see some of myself if i shifted slightly. So then I had to drive home through some bad new england traffic. All in all, almost 9 hours of continous driving later, I am one dissapointed and discouraged individual. I hope this fades because my corvette passion has influenced alot of my life choices (mechanical engineering + wharton business, and GM internships).
It did accelerate like a beast, and no matter what, looking down the road over those fenders is amazing. Still discouraged. I may just stick to posters (and books, magazines, calendars, etc) and not ownership.
c'mon tell me "hes just a bad example!"
Tomas
ps don't buy a 80 corvette from frank in fall river

 

[78SilvAnniv]

Don't give up!

Keep looking, the right one is out there!
Heidi

 

[AmosF16]

Keep looking--the right car is out there for you. It's that frog and prince thing; you just found another frog.

 

[Stingray6974]

The more you look......the smarter you get. You'll find the right one for you.

Mike

 

[Dave L.]

Don't give up,you will find a nice car. Your story sounds like the one I related on here several months ago. I went with my buddy who is STILL looking for a car. The guy said he had a restored 1980 four speed. There was NOTHING on the car restored and it was not an original 4 speed. The car had a beehive in the door jamb and hole in the frame. The seat backs were broken and held in place with rolled up towels,it had no air cleaner and oil leaks everywhere. The guy wanted $10,000,I might have given him $2500 because I felt sorry for the car!!
Keep looking...As others have said,you will know when you have found the right car.

Dave

 

[billybob]

TomOB,

Don't give up, the key is education for a few dollar investment it will make your ability to bargain that much easier.

There is a difference between perceived value and actual value of a car. Sure I'd love to be able to get 70k for my 65 rustang but I know its not going to happen (7k appraised).

I have noticed a seriously bizarre trend, people advertising cars for sale fall into 4 categories.

1) Don't need the money their tastes in cars have changed and are trying to get back every cent ever spent on it.

2) Are trying to see how much people are willing to pay for the car, by pricing it higher then actual value they can see where the average offer comes in at.

3) Advertise the car is better than it really is with a price tag to match the advertisement. This is the draw you in and make you haggle for the price they were really after.

4) A person that realizes what the car is worth and would rather make a deal on something then having it sitting there and not getting anything.

The people in the 1st item generally wont haggle at all, they think their car is the greatest thing on the market and due to the fact that you actually showed up to look at the car you have the advertised amount of money and are willing to part with it.

The item 2 people as far as I'm concerned are scum, they generally have no desire to sell at all, wont haggle due to the above mentioned desire.

The category 3 people are nearly as bad as the category 2 people with the slight exception that they will haggle, if you go in with a ton of information about market trends and actual car values, how condition of the car effects its price you can generally get it quite a bit lower then advertised.

Now the 4 item group is the ideal group to deal with as they have probably had the car appraised and know what the value is. Have spent some if not a lot of time trying to take care of the car but has grown outside the scope of their budget and are willing to part with it to either make room for a new project or just get it out of their lives for other reasons.

These are general classifications but after looking at numerous cars over the years I can pretty much place every car seller in one of these categories. You just have to have patients and stay the course.

After my first vette, it took about 20 years before I found another one. I had looked at hundreds of them and finally found one that fit in the 4th category and got it at a little below fair market value.

Education is key, know what your considering buying.

Many things affect the overall cost of a vehicle, the 5 most prominent are the following: Engine, Drive train, Paint, Interior and Frame.

Surprisingly enough Visual appearance of the car seems to have the most impact on the overall price. And I'm not talking rust at this point, just paint and interior.

With some of this information in hand you will be able to make an educated evaluation on the value, perceived or otherwise.

Be prepared to confront the seller with hard facts. Never and I cant state this enough NEVER mention the modifications you plan on doing, this tells the seller you have money, something you don't want to advertise when trying to get a deal. But do quote with hard numbers what it will cost to get the vehicle back to a road worthiness standard.

Also use this to your advantage, that seeing as how the person selling the car is neither a dealership or a licensed vendor you have no warranties. If something happens or goes wrong you have no legal recourse against said individual. Unless the owner provides you with accurate build sheets assume the worst can go wrong, and make this fact known.

Always be prepared to walk away from the seller, think of the car as a lemon, knowing you will have to invest money in it right from the start.

Buy a few books, they dont have to be corvette specific, but they do help. Learn to identify and spot potential problems. Look at going prices of replacement parts, all this information will give you the edge.

With this information in hand you are on your way to vette ownership. Take your time and it will pay off.

Sorry for the long post

Bill

 

[TomOB]

long posts are ok, and i appreciate the encouragement.
I did all that, looked it over, tried to identify issues, even tried to assume things about treatment from little hints. I called the guy and spent 30+minutes going over the condition of the car. I neededto be sure about the condition so I could be able to look for other signs. for example, another guy i called told me his car had lots of problems, like carb, a/c, paint, rust. He wanted 5k, and i had the feeling he just wanted to get rid of the car, infact he said he just needed 2900. This guy seemed to greet me with similar honesty, told me everythign about the car. I show up, and hes a liar, both with the car and his own statements (ie, on the phone: i got it painted 3 yrs ago, in person 1yr ago, and when i look at the car, looks like he coudlnt find the key hole all over the body.) I wasted 9hours of my and my family's time. 36-man-hours!
My mom and I found a sign in the back that ws washed out, but you could still see "auto sales" so the jerk was a dealer, or used to be one, and then we realized he had 4 other cars and a motorcycle in his car. I took the car for a ride for fun and walked off.

 

[billybob]

TomOB,

You spent 'quality' time with your family how is that wasted?

That kind of person falls into Item 3, generally most will claim the car better then what it is.. but yes there are those that will make it sound worse to get you in to see it, AKA dealers rolling up the price. These individuals are way to easy to spot.

Now for 2900$ what year etc? Are you looking for an immediate driver or a fixer-upper? Depending on the condition of the frame and engine that sounds pretty interesting.

Bill

 

[TomOB]

He didn't say "i want at least $2900 for the car" that woudl be stupid because he wouldn't get his $5000 asking price. He said he was building a countach kit car and needed money, ie he just spent $2900 on the car and needed to pay it off "so i need the money to pay that off" so i took that as an invitation to low ball as long as i had cash, because he needed money right away.
The paint needs to be redone, which to me isn't much of an issue (i would do it myself), the carb needs to be at least replaced (it hesitates alot) the interior is supposed to be perfect, but now i can't trust anyone. 45,000 miles, 1980, tan/white interior (these people seem to be unable to tell the difference), surface rust on frame. engine runs good with good carb (guy has a good carb on his 77 that he switches when he needs to drive the 80), A/C doesn't work, and the blower is not responding at any speed. Sounds like all it needs is a carb to make it drive, but to make it 'pretty' it needs work, and to make it trouble free and nice, it needs some investment. I priced the work at $2k+, not including anything done to the frame.
I don't know what i'm looking for, I just know i don't want a car in the middle. If im gonna buy something that needs work, I want a decent amount of work so i can pay a low price. If im gonna buy a nice car, it better be really nice because i'm paying a premium for functionality. I'm off for 4 months every summer now so I figured it'd be a good time to do some work, but i also want a car that can drive 2hrs home from upenn. If i can get a real car that runs, i'd consider buying a fix-me-up car for fun. Infact, now that i think about it, that'd be a great idea. Now all i need is a garage! my 1.33 car garage might not cut it. I'm looking to work at a corvette resto shop this summer....anyone have any tips on how to convince experts to hire a 18 (then 19) yr old novice? So far ive got
-I love them
-i learn quick and am very good at mechanical stuff and with my hands
-i love them

 

[resto75]

I agree with the others just keep looking for the right one. Every dog you look at you will learn something from, to guide you on the correct choice when you find it.

I wouldn't be looking for a good vette in the northeast if your looking at 25 year old cars. If you find a good one there it will of been restored and at a premium price.

You might have to broaden your search area.

 

[TomOB]

I've always been hesitant to go check out a car thats a long distance away. Now i'm even more hesitant....say i get another guy like this and spend $300 airfare to go look at it?! I've been hearing alot about that. I guess the climate up here isn't exactly conducive to a long, rust free life.
tomas

 

[sothpaw]

Tomas,

From one ME to another, don't be discouraged. Remember, statistically
it's going to be hard to find an 80 in good shape because of the age
and the fact that very few people take care of car in a manner that would
result in the car you are looking for--and they have to happen to be selling
right as you are looking. Weight that against how many 80's were manufactured.

If you want the 80', have patience, you will need it.
If you are open to any vette 80-96, that makes it easier.

Good luck!

 

[TomOB]

Youre an Mech Eng? That's cool. I'm not in it yet, i'm just in business school. But im seriously considering it, its just gonna be hard....
i like the 80-82 body style, but if i could have it my way, thered be a c5 underneath. hehe. So depending on what i get, i don't really care. I'm not paying top dollar for a 78-79 because its not what i want. but if the price leaves some money for customization, i'm all ears.

 

[Justin_cv87]

well, Corvettes from C3 and older are due to have problems, and thus u can get them for cheap. My advice is u wait a bit to save up a few more bucks and get one that has been garaged and taken great care of. and always ask for pics before you travel to see a vette, see pics of the outside, inside, and engine, and make sure they are good quality, because if this guy really wants to sell the car, he will take the time to show pics of it, unless it is not as good as he says it is.

 

[Scott81]

Tom,

What they said. Also what you can do for a car that is out of driving range is to ask the owner to email you "clear and quality" photos of the car from various angles, engine, underneath, etc. If you find a car in another state that you would consider buying make a post asking if there's anyone close that could go take a look for you before you take the time to commit to a trip. I looked at a rolling frame for a guy in Canada, he emailed me when he got it that it was way better than expected and he got a complete front/rear suspension with it for $1800.

Don't give up, you'll have to look at a lot of junk before you find the right car.

 

[sscam69]

Tom

You'll find what you are looking for don't worry but first and foremost is patience.

When you start working on that M.E. degree its definitely going to challenge you and make this problem of looking for a vette a breeze. Coming from an M.E.

The only thing that bothers me is that guy making you drive out there and being dishonest about the cars condition ad

I am sure you'll find what you are looking for, there are cherrys waiting to be plucked and you'll eventually find yours.

Good Luck

Frank

 

[Dave L.]

My car lived its entire life in PA and it did not have any rust and was in great condition. I have seen many cars in my area for sale which are not junk-rust-buckets at a fair price. If you stick with it and be patient I am sure you could fine a nice car in your area.

Dave

 

[chockey]

Hi Tomas

Patience, it a hard word to follow and when you least expect it you will find the one to fill your dreams.

Having met you at Carlisle I know that you are not going to be taken but there are a lot of really good people out there, yup and a few jerks too.

Keep your search going and you learn more each time you look at a car, step back after each car and estimate how much it will take to make the car what you want it to be, don't be afraid to compromise but know what you want.

Lots of Luck
Chuck

 

[Shawn's 78]

Tomas,
Keep the faith!
I actually landed the car I wanted within a month of searching. The forum was a great help along with some family members that have good Chevy knowledge.
I purchased the car out of Denver (I'm in Seattle) without ever going to see the car. The seller I worked with was great. He's a CAC member as I found the car posted for sale online.
He sent me an inspection report from when he purchased it and agreed to have the car taken to a mechanic of my choice (this is key to any car you want to purchase $2900 or $12900). The report found some things not listed on the other report (granted that was a 1 1/2 years ago). But it gave me the information needed to present a respectfull offer. Oh yea, he sent me a ton of photo's and answered all my questions to the best of his knowledge. The great thing was he had all the reciepts from previous owners.
Expand your horizons - I went from a Washington search to greater westcoast. I found many quality vettes in my price range. Call it luck, but the car I found was what I wanted in terms of ability (I can drive it now), with just enough work needed to be done on it to make it nice. Remember, you'll never get out of it what you put into it. They are old and father time takes it toll, even on pristine ones.

My advice (hopefully in order)
1) be patient
2) expand your search (but factor in shipping or your travel (airfare) etc if you plan to buy more then a days drive away)
3) Have a set price range (and year(s))
4) look at lots of cars in all price ranges if you can. This will help justify your price range (example i looked at a 78 pace car that was in horrible condition. The internet photo showed a nice looking car, but when I arrived I was hacked! But it gave me a good indication of what people are asking).
5) the seller must agree that it is ok for you to have an independant mechanical inspection. If he says "no" walk away! BTW, this should cost you $250 - $400. I took mine to a Vette only dealer in Denver.
6) Get to know your seller and why they are selling. This can help in the relationship (and negotiation).
7) Be Patient (repeat!)
8) From the inspection report, find out what it will cost you to do the repairs yourself (use a Corvette catalog like Eckler's and a mod catatlog like Summit or Jegs to help with the pricing). Add that to the price of the car. Sometimes it will be cheaper to purchase a car for a few grand more - it may save you tons in the end!
9) understand you will get frustrated with the process some of the time. This a significant investment in time and money and the cars are old.
10) remember why you are buying a Vette! If it stops being "fun" then you're in it for the wrong reason. Stop and wait a while then re-evaluate your goals

These are just my thoughts. Hang tight - you'll have a success story to tell.
Shawn

 

[smurfvet]

I went through the same thing you did looking for a "worthy" car. I was fortunate enough to find a 74 that was 90% original. It was hit once, but repaired with correct parts. The missing stuff I have to find for the car is available, except for the AIR (smog) system.

As most others have said, the right car's out there. It's a real education to weed out the liars, thiefs and cheats, as billybob said. Good information, by the way. I printed it out, billybob! I've found most folks want WAY too much for junk, and probably have a good idea of how messed up the car really is. That's why they are selling it.... The fact it's a vehicle makes buyers fair game.

My dear wife bought a "car" for her daughter last summer- Mitsubishi (spelled JUNK) (Eagle Talon) awd-turbo-16 valve-twin cam piece of s--t. $5 grand outright, 3 grand after the purchase in repairs. I told her she was flat outright nuts to buy it. Didn't make a lot of points with her, but I love to be right! The auto trans left this earth last week- sounds like a garbage disposal with a steak bone in it. Now we are donating it to the American Diabetes Assn. for a tax credit. The guy who sold this c--pbox knew good and well what was wrong with this thing before he sold it. Just a $8k lesson for us all.

Don't give up. Stop and look at the roadside cars, make friends with some repair or parts guys, they usually have the best leads. Just remember, you can't pay a little for a good car. If you pay a little, then something's probably REALLY wrong!

I know of a 77 or 78 up here that was going for 7K or so last summer. Good shape, 70K miles, owned by a service manager at a car dealer. I can see if he still has it.