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I need C4C5Specialist Help (C4)

69MyWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Paul,

I hope you see this. I am stumped and don't know where to start.

This 85 Vette of mine is insane.

It is modified via a 383, posted polished center bolt heads, Crane 2050 compucam, 24# injectors, ported polished intake, headers, and free flow exhaust and a strip chip from ADS.

It stays in open loop. I think I can fix that with the three wire heated O2 that I will install soon.

It won't take any timing advance! Unless I set it negative, all it does it ping HARD right off idle. It sounds like it is coming apart. I then put negative timing in it, and no more ping.

I got a code for low/hi fuel pressure???????

The gas in the car is 2 years old, but I just put 10 galons of fresh high test and some Lucas fuel injector cleaner/treatment, and drove it slow for 9 miles. Can't go far, I don't have a tag on it yet.

So...what should I look at first..

Oh the idle is all over the place, but mostly VERY high.

On the good side, the a/c is ice cold, the trans shifts gears, the steering and brakes are just fine.
 
Alright, now I'm feelin' bad because I'm sitting on your sensor, but I'm serious when I tell ya I don't have the money to mail it yet. I'm broke! :eyerole

_ken
 
Ken said:
Alright, now I'm feelin' bad because I'm sitting on your sensor, but I'm serious when I tell ya I don't have the money to mail it yet. I'm broke! :eyerole

_ken

No worries Ken. I have much larger fish to fry.

The deal is, the car should still at least kick in and out of closed loop after it warms up. I've got nadda.

The heated O2 is going to just be icing on the cake.

(please, let's don't talk about being broke. I think I already sold me soul to the Corvette Devil, because I can't seem to get out from under the hood or fiberglass dust of everybody else's project in order to scrape up enough dough to play with mine.)
 
Ah...:duh

I just found something interesting.

This was on my mind all night (hard to sleep that way).

I just went out in the garage and traced the vacuum lines per the wonderfully helpful emissions/vacuum line routing diagram on the fan shroud.

It is all backwards. Worse of all, this is how the prior owner was running it. The main vacuum from the engine is running off the PCV line and is Tee'ed into the one way valve from the tank. It should go to the purge switch. No doubt, this is a wide open vacuum and the way it is, it would be pulling off the tank...I guess?

After Church today I will grab a handful of vacuum hose, and take my time making it match the diagram. This will be a start.

Then, I need to go through the basic idle set. It has been so long, I forgot how it is done on the 85 model.

I think I am suppose to ground the ADL, turn the key on, and let the idle air motor step closed. Then, unplug the idle air motor and start it up. Then, adjust the throttle stop and tps. Then, shut down, reconnect and fire back off, take it for a constant drive around 40 mph and it should be set...right?
 
It's early for you, but it's too late for me, to think about that one now. :L I'll try to look it up later today. ;)

_ken :z
 
Ken said:
It's early for you, but it's too late for me, to think about that one now. :L I'll try to look it up later today. ;)

_ken :z

Thanks Ken,

Turns out we are going to the second service today, so I had an hour or two to mess around this morning.

I am much happier at the moment.

I traced back the vacuum lines. The prior owner had connected the intake vacuum lead to where the tank was suppose to go, and visa versa. So, there was a wide open vacuum pull there, and no purge action on the tank. Fixed.

I then hooked the EGR switch in line, but plugged off the valve side since there is no EGR on this car. I have a new valve on the 90 Vette engine just sitting there. I wonder if they are the same? If so, I could put that on and bring the EGR back to life.

The problem right now is the run away idle. The IAC is open as much as 122 steps while at "idle" in gear. This is making it want to pull around 1100 RPM. It drops back a few steps to around 90 at idle in park.

I backed off the timing and took it for a spin. It is still strong. The old girl has still got it going on. With no effort, it rips the back tires loose (11" wide 335 35 17!).

Of course, the ancient gas (about 10 gallons) is still in there. The engine is very rough at idle, and running so high...it is no wonder.

So....if you can get that procedure for me on setting the base idle...that would be great.

Anybody know if a 90 EGR will fit a 85?

Thanks!

Now I gotta hop in the shower and get dressed.
 
this is a doc I had from Lars form another forum for minimun idle

How to Adjust your Early C4 TPS and Idle Speed

by Lars Grimsrud
SVE Automotive Restoration
Musclecar, Collector & Exotic Auto Repair & Restoration
Broomfield, CO Rev. New 6-15-00


This tech paper will discuss the procedure for correct adjustment of the Minimum Idle Speed and for adjustment of the Throttle Position Switch (TPS) on the early C4 Corvette TPI systems. These steps apply specifically to the 1985 model year, and in general to other years. Later model years do not have adjustable TPS’s.

General
Idle speed and off-idle throttle response on the early TPI systems is determined by correct adjustment of the minimum idle speed screw combined with a correct setting of the TPS. I’ve seen many of these cars that have had their idle speed “corrected” by well-intentioned mechanics and owners by simply screwing the minimum idle speed screw in a few turns. This really messes up the settings, and will not make your car perform properly. Doing a correct setup of the TPS is one of the easiest ways to make your car feel and respond better. To maximize the benefit of this procedure, I recommend that you first remove your Throttle Body (TB), disassemble it (it’s incredible easy – there are a total of about 5 pieces in it…), clean the TB up really good with some spray carb cleaner, and put it back together. A nice clean TB will really put an edge on the performance improvement you will get by doing this procedure.

The Service Manual has instructions for doing these operations, but the directions are scattered through several sections of the Manual. Here is the complete, step-by-step process for doing this (not including TB rebuild). All specs and steps are taken directly from the Manual (all 3 different sections), and this process is absolutely correct.


Tools & Equipment
You will need the following tools and equipment:

1. A set of Torx wrenches. You can buy a complete set in a nice, genuine plastic pouch at Sears.
2. A good digital voltmeter that will read voltages less than 1 volt.
3. A paper clip.
4. A small screwdriver.


Procedure
There are two electrical components on the TB that you will be working with: The TPS and the Idle Air Control Valve (IAC). Make sure that the connectors for these two components are easily accessible and that you can easily disconnect the IAC.

You will also be playing with the diagnostic connector under the dash. Remove the cover (if it’s still in place). Bend your paper clip into a “U” shape. You will be playing with the two top right hand terminals (“A” and “B”) in the connector.

· First step is to set the minimum idle speed. If nobody has messed with this on your car before, the set screw will be covered by a pressed-in plug. It’s located on the driver’s side of the TB. Remove this plug if it’s there.
· With the IAC connected and the ignition “OFF,” stick the paper clip into the diagnostic connector from “A” to “B.” This grounds the diagnostic lead.
· Turn the ignition to the “ON” position without starting the engine. Wait 30 seconds.
· Now, with the ignition still in the “ON” position, disconnect the IAC connector at the IAC.
· Remove the paper clip from the diagnostic connector.
· Start the engine and allow it to reach normal operating temperature. The idle speed will probably be really low, and you may have to coax the engine a bit with the gas pedal to keep it running for a while.
· If your car is an automatic, set the parking brake and put the transmission in “DRIVE.” If your car is a manual, leave it in neutral.
· Adjust the idle speed screw to obtain 400 rpm in drive or 450 in neutral.
· Shut off the engine and re-connect the IAC.

That’s it for idle speed. Now on to the TPS.

There are 3 wires stacked vertically on the TPS. You will need to be able to measure the voltage between the two top wires. You can either buy a special harness connector that breaks these wires out (from Mid America), or gently pierce the insulation of the wires with the pointy prongs on your volt meter. You can also stick a paper clip into each of the two top locations of the connector and clamp onto the paper clips to measure the voltage. Whatever is easiest for you.

· Turn the ignition to the “ON” position without starting the engine.
· Loosen the TPS Torx adjustment screws.
· Set your volt meter to a low scale DC volt setting that will accurately read less than 1 volt.
· Measure the voltage between the two top TPS wires.
· Adjust the TPS by rotating its position until you get a reading of .54 volts.
· Tighten the Torx screws and recheck the voltage. Re-adjust if necessary to make sure voltage is right at .54.
· Turn the ignition “OFF.”

You are now in perfect adjustment on idle speed and TPS output. Start the engine. It may take a few seconds for the car to “catch on” to its new settings.


Questions, Comments & Technical Assistance
If you have questions or comments regarding this article, or if you notice any errors that need to be corrected (which is quite possible since I’m writing this from memory…), please feel free to drop me an e-mail. Also, if you need any technical assistance or advice regarding this process, or other maintenance issues, feel free to contact me:

lars.grimsrud@lmco.com
 
Chris
I had a problem with my 383 when it was in the truck it would ping badly when I set it at 10 degrees initial or had the vacuum advance hooked up. When I put it in the Vette I had the heads off and put a timing wheel on it and found out the timing mark on the stock dampner was 8 degrees advanced. I put a good dampner on it and it works OK. I also have an egr if you need e-mail me a list of what you need.
Craig sr
 
BTW the minimum adle speed was changed to 475 in gear, by a later tech bullitin from Gm. this works much better as it car has a tendancy to stall eaily when set to 400. if you 383 has more torque it may work at 400, bur 475 is much nicer on mine
 
Put some more miles on it.

It is not in closed loop often. However, we got it there yesterday...and BAM,...the idle came under control.

So...much work left to do.

I followed the destructions that Jeff printed. Those are the ones I remember, it had been a while though.

After we get this tank of nasty gas gone, I am getting together with a GM tech and we are going to do a injector blasting.
 
OK... so how does one set the minimum idle speed to something OTHER than an even hundred RPM increment? Been having idle problems with mine after replacing the throttle body (yes, did adjust the TPS) so I adjusted the IAC per the instructions above, but had to guess at where 450 was by how the tach would keep jumping between 4 and 5... So how can you differentiate between 450 and 475?
Thanks...
[RICHR]
 
Richard, I use the auto xray scanner, it reads real time data & has a mor accurate display
 

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