I need some help from the legal minds....

[vetteboy86]

Well I have a major problem.

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70469


I take the car too him, and it is fine. Sure it is an 86 but the lifters never made noise, nor did the motor ever knock.

He told me he put some tranny fluid down in the oil, and then put some "major miles on the car to see if it was okay". My guess is around 40 or 50. He told me it was a quart and a half low on oil, but the dipstick was overfull when I got home. He even admitted to me about the noise not being in the motor before he worked on it. I do not want to take it back to him, for him to fix it, and risk screwing it up more.

What legal issues will I face for my engine. He admitted to dumping **** down the crank, to clean out the sludge that was from me not changing oil. Well if you knew how often I change oil in my cars, it would make you sick all the money I spend on oil, just to avoid this issue.

Let me know,
Craig

 

[Edmond]

What you need to do is document everything. You need evidence to present your case if it ever comes down to that.

Have you tried to reach some kind of settlement with him? How about a refund? How about reimbursement?

Taking legal action is the last resort but you gotta do what you gotta do. Do not threaten to sue the guy unless you are prepared to do so.

 

[tnovot]

Adding trans fluid to the crankcase as a cleaqning agent, although maybe not recommended by lubrication experts, has been routinely used by mechanics for years to remove varnish, sludge, etc. from a DIRTY crankcase. I have done it myself on a few vehicles with no problems.
Usually, a half quart is all that is used. If your oil WAS really that low, 1 1/2 or 2 quarts of trans fluid to 3 1/2 quarts of oil might have comprimised the lubricating qualities of the engine oil.
You say the dipstick showed overfull when you got the car back. Overfilling is bad and can even be worse than low level becuse the crank can whip the oil and cause it to get aerated which really diminishes the ability to lubricate properly.
I agree with Edmond - document everything that was done and said. Even a recording of the engine noise might be important and maybe a statement from an independent mechanic. Write everything down, with dates and times if possible. Get anyone as a witness or who can substantiate your claims to put such in writing. If you do sue, the burden of proof will be on you.

 

[vetteboy86]

No, I have not talked to the guy, and frankly I dont want to either. I am so upset over this whole situation. The car went in for an intake gasket change, and comes back with a knock, and lifter noise. He retarded the timing without my permission, put additives, including tranny fluid down my crank and drove the car for 40 miles. He admitted to doing all these things to me. I am going to ask him why my car came back with more problems then it went to his shop with. I dont think the 300 dollars will pay to get it fixed. I dont know if I have to rebuild the motor or not. I know I have a lifter problem which can be solved but it shouldn't have too. My biggest problem is that he did all these things to my car without my permission. I never told him to retard the timing, because he thought the car was spark knocking, and that was the noise he was chasing. I never told him to put anything in my oil to clean out any sludge that might have been in my engine.

How can I explain no engine noise, lifter or otherwise before the visit to his shop, but after I have both these problems. How can I explain that the dumb $&@ overfilled the oil, because when I check it it was over the full mark by at least a quart. He left my engine dirty, grease and finger prints all over the plenum, runners, and valve covers. My spark plug wires are all greasy now, and I have wires that are supposed to go into heat shields that were never put back in.

This is a total nightmare. I wouldn't wish this situation on my worst enemy.

Craig

 

[Edmond]

Craig,

Is Indiana a one or two party consent to record a conversation?

 

[WhalePirot]

Does your state have a complaint office for such things? CA has a Bureau of Automotive Repair, which is, I think part of the consumer protection section of the Attorney General's Office. They may offer you a course of action, especially if they certify repair shops..

Sorry to hear this happened to you. I believe the insurance-prefered body shop creeps ruined my engine, doing burnouts like those I saw then doing with a yellow Rustang.

 

[Vettefan87]

It is just amazing that you can't rely on someone to do a deacent job, of what they are asked. I would say trust, but can you actually trust another person with something that is yours? I am just lost for words with this whole situation...

 

[WhalePirot]

IR not a lawyer

Is Indiana a one or two party consent to record a conversation?

Even if it is two, as CA, such a recording, while not admissible in court, can go a long way to a better settlement, I am told. I'd be surprised if the guy admitted much more, though.

As a minimum, I would write everything down, as soon as possible, with dates and recall of what was said. You might even mail it to the guy. If he doesn't challenge it, it may be held as a faithful record of the facts.

Houston....come in Houston...........

 

[Edmond]

The problem I see is proving that you didn't have engine noise prior to bringing the vehicle in. Now, if Indiana were a single party consent for recording and you just so happen to have a recording device on you and strike up a conversation with him first stating the date and time and the issues and his confession that there wasn't any noise and everything else that he did. But that wouldn't be possible if Indiana were a two party consent state because he would never consent to recording that. Now if it were a one party consent state, you have your own consent so record away.

 

[MoeJr]

This may become a sticky situation if it goes to court. Seeings the guy was forthcoming on exactly what he did and admits it wasn't making the noise before he touched it I would try and work something out with him. Any shop worth a damn will help pay for at least the diagnosis at a different shop and offer to pay a portion of the bill. He did you no harm with the ATF IMHO. Keep us posted.

:bar

 

[Edmond]

Yeah, you gotta try the diplomatic way first. I hope that he'll see his errors and come to an agreement with you that will be satisfactory for you. These cars are very personal to us and we take it hard when something goes wrong.

Talk to the guy and see what he says. You never know, maybe in a few days when he's had a chance to evaluate the situation, maybe he'll realize that he was wrong and he'll right it.

 

[Edmond]

Even if it is two, as CA, such a recording, while not admissible in court, can go a long way to a better settlement, I am told. I'd be surprised if the guy admitted much more, though.

I wouldn't record unless it was legal. Because if you do record and it's illegal, it just makes you look like a guy who will do anything to win. You gotta stay within the rules and win.

 

[Moonunit 451]

It is just amazing that you can't rely on someone to do a deacent job, of what they are asked. I would say trust, but can you actually trust another person with something that is yours? I am just lost for words with this whole situation...

I hate to say this, and you know I care, and have tried to help along with many others, but there is NO better testimony that Vettes, (performance cars of any kind) this old just about require owners that are willing to take the time and effort to do the work themselves unless they can afford the very best, vetted people to do it for you.

I really feel for ya guys. So many things can happen with a relatively ( not really so) simple intake job that trusting it to anyone other than yourself and a trusted assistant perhaps on a cars this old just isn't worth the risks. There really aren't any guarentees at this stage. At least, if you do it yourself, there's only one place to point the finger. Too much drama otherwise.

 

[Vettefan87]

I hate to say this, and you know I care, and have tried to help along with many others, but there is NO better testimony that Vettes, (performance cars of any kind) this old just about require owners that are willing to take the time and effort to do the work themselves unless they can afford the very best, vetted people to do it for you.

I really feel for ya guys. So many things can happen with a relatively ( not really so) simple intake job that trusting it to anyone other than yourself and a trusted assistant perhaps on a cars this old just isn't worth the risks. There really aren't any guarentees at this stage. At least, if you do it yourself, there's only one place to point the finger. Too much drama otherwise.

Oh I agree, If I would have had the time and the necessary tools I would have attempted to pull the motor myself when I had my problems.

I even told him that I would do it for what he was paying the guy and I would work through the night to get it done. Oh well heinz sight is 20-20.

 

[tigmaned]

if its one of those old fashioned car repair places good luck! i know i use them too, there some time less costly then bigger places but this can happen some times unless you know others that have been there and had a GOOD experiance with them. i have done the tranny deal too, but i never put that much in or drove it that far either so its hard to say. i am sure hes not going to put it in writing that he did that.
just another story about why i try and work on my own cars, and would rather change out parts that i know are old for new to see if it works, yeah thats a parts changer but at least i have some new parts to show for the work inatead of some hoser telling me its this worng and it will cost $300 buck for nothing.
GOOD LUCK and sorry to hear about this!!

 

[poorboys831]

Hi There-as most have said you need documentation .However if you don't have any all is not lost.Call your local Better business bureau and get an appointment or ask for the forms you need to file complaint.Then request a hearing.You would be surprised how that can change things-!st he won't want to go before a mediator and if he does any thing he says will be judged by a third party as to the truth of his statements. This really works I got GM to buy back my 1997 Vette this way and iy's easier than you think-good luck and don't give up-Dennis

 

[I_R_DA_ONE]

If this is a quality shop ,,,they would carry insurance to cover mistakes like this.. It's called liability... Just like a doctor they have to cover thier work.... That is the first thing I ask about when I have work done on anything... Do you have insurance????? If not,, it's time to move on.... Mike R

 

[vetteboy86]

Well to my knowledge, Indiana is a one party consent state. I will however do more research. I might go and talk to the guy, to get some stuff out of him.

 

[Edmond]

Well to my knowledge, Indiana is a one party consent state. I will however do more research. I might go and talk to the guy, to get some stuff out of him.

And bring a digital recorder with you!

 

[vetteboy86]

Yeah, I bought an olympus with pc link for the summer class I took. It works good. I just need to get some samples with it set on different recording options to see which works best while in my pocket.