I Said True Duals? They Said 25,000.00

[TAS9966]

I Went Down To My Local Muffler Shop To See About Getting True Duals Installed. I Currently Have About A Year Old Set Of Stainless Magnaflow Mufflers Which Are Great But Thought I Would Compliment Them With Duals. The Manager Said In Missouri They Are Illegal If They Were Not Original Equip On The Car. He Went On To Say If He Was Caught He Could Be Fined 25k And If I Got Pulled Over And The Cop Identified The Duals I Could Be Fined 25k. I Told Him I Was Already Illegal Since My Emmisions Were Removed But 25k Isnt Worth The Risk. Im sure theres more important issues to worry about in Missouri than if a car has Dual exhaust.

 

[ruby76]

What year is your car??

I just bought mine from missouri owner - with duals. it's a 76. Also, my truck I just sold to pay for the vette, originally came with single exhaust, but I put duals on it - when I lived in MIssouri. Im guessing your car also has a catalytic converter. I was told you could go to duals, but you'd have to get a second cat to go on the second side, - that way you stay legal, otherwise if you remove the cat that's when your in trouble.

You can actually email Missouri's department of Motor Vehicles via their website and get answers to questions like this. I've done it in the past, usually get a response within 24 hours or so.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

I Went Down To My Local Muffler Shop To See About Getting True Duals Installed. I Currently Have About A Year Old Set Of Stainless Magnaflow Mufflers Which Are Great But Thought I Would Compliment Them With Duals. The Manager Said In Missouri They Are Illegal If They Were Not Original Equip On The Car. He Went On To Say If He Was Caught He Could Be Fined 25k And If I Got Pulled Over And The Cop Identified The Duals I Could Be Fined 25k. I Told Him I Was Already Illegal Since My Emmisions Were Removed But 25k Isnt Worth The Risk. Im sure theres more important issues to worry about in Missouri than if a car has Dual exhaust.

The fine appears to have gone up from the $10,000. As I understand the situation, the Feds pass the laws on required emissions equipment and in that law pass on the responsibility for enforcement to the States.

Federal law makes it illegal to remove any OEM emissions equipment. It's up to the state's to enforce. Most have laws where they won't inspect antique cars, only inspect in high pollution areas, etc. but that doesn't change the Federal law, which preempts any state law.

No one has ever brought up the fact that a cop could give you the ticket before. Wonder how that is going to impact us as the local governments find other ways to use their police departments to raise money. Hundreds of speeding tickets in a speed trap or one $25,000 pollution violation.

How does that saying go? You're not paranoid if someone is watching.

 

[photovette]

I'll bet they could pay off a large part of the national debt by ticketing C3+C4 owners who have gone to true dual exhaust and/or removed the cats. And, from what I understand, putting in 2 cats isn't going to save you either, it has to be as factory installed.

Anybody ever heard of anybody getting a ticket for missing cats?

Here is the exact federal law that covers removing the cat; you will note that the law also covers any emission control device on the car.

Clean Air Act
203(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or

 

[Bob Chadwick]

And, from what I understand, putting in 2 cats isn't going to save you either, it has to be as factory installed.

I did this no-no.

 

[photovette]

Here's a very good article on the EPA regs--basically we're all screwed except for the NCRS'ers and a few C5's and C6'ers--though they'll soon be joining the rest of us in regulational sin I'll bet.

It also states that the fine for an individual doing the tampering is a maximum of $2,500. Not $25,000. I'll risk it... Here's to anarchy!

http://www.off-road.com/dodge/tech/Emissions_Legal.htm

 

[TAS9966]

My Car In Question Is A 1981, Great Info On The Epa Article,although My Car Is Already Illegal With No Emissions And No Cats, And Running Beautiful I Might Add, Knock On Wood, I Wont Push It By Installing Duals....on The Other Hand As I Ponder Further, Maybe Ill Just Do It Myself, Illegal Is Illegal Right?

THE GUY AT THE MUFFLER SHOP DID SAY THE LOOPHOLE WAS TO INSTALL A CAT ON THE OTHER SIDE, OF COURSE I WOULD HAVE TO INSTALL TWO CATS SINCE I HAVE NONE, IT SEEMS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO INSTALL CATS WITH NO EMMISION COMPONENTS TO BEGIN WITH,I WAS ALSO TOLD BY A CORVETTE MECHANIC NOT TO PUT CATS ON WITHOUT AN AIR PUMP OR IT WOULD FRY THE MANIFOLD WHEN THE CAT HEATS UP. THANKS FOR EVERYONES IMPUT. I THINK I WILL JUST GO OUT AND DRIVE MY VETTE!!!!
TOM

 

[Ken]

Emissions Tampering

 

[atmmac]

just go into another state. I highly doubt they will have the balls to fine you 25 grand.

 

[ed_in_pa]

I don't know, that's the way it was when I bought it.

 

[Willis76]

I think this post should be protected with something like that old "blue dot" or some other type of device that would help disguise who we are. You never know when the "man" is listening in.

My cat is busy chasing mice ...................

 

[dumptruckphil]

In New Jersey, vehicles over 25 years old can be registered as Historic. I did this with my '76. No state inspections are required. The vehicle is supposed to have limited use, but from previous experience, I was never bothered. So get the pipes you need for a pre cat car and do it. Most cops I see are too fat to squeeze under a Vette and see what's missing.

 

[lov-n-life]

Clean Air Act
203(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or

After reading this entire section of the clean air act, it seems to imply ANY alteration to a vehicle is illegal... so wouldn't that then make the obnoxious fart cans buzzing around town illegal as well as any aftermarket exhaust system? I would say that it depends on how you read it... I'm no legal expert my any stretch of the imagination, but how I read it all fart cans are illegal and and Corvette is exempt ...but I'm no expert

 

[TAS9966]

fart cans

After reading this entire section of the clean air act, it seems to imply ANY alteration to a vehicle is illegal... so wouldn't that then make the obnoxious fart cans buzzing around town illegal as well as any aftermarket exhaust system? I would say that it depends on how you read it... I'm no legal expert my any stretch of the imagination, but how I read it all fart cans are illegal and and Corvette is exempt ...but I'm no expert

Thank You !!!! I love the term Fart Cans Buzzing Around Town

 

[like2drive]

dodgin regulations

I moved from a non-emission state (SC) to an emission state (NC) last year. of course , you have to get the inspection sticker every year. Here, they use OB computer inspections, so anything older than 1993 (?) is only visually inspected (as far as the smog stuff goes). Theoretically, the car could be running gas out the tail pipe, but if you have all the junk on, you're ok. So, I block out a week, to put all the junk back on...AIR exhaust manifold, cat, smog pump w/all those hoses, heat riser, etc....get my sticker, then back home to remove the crap till next year. I don't think they do tailpipe inspections here anymore. If they did, I would like to challange them on a before and after concerning the emission stuff. I'm wanting to go to true duals and this all may just be too much. I used to boat a lot on the intercostal but the regs got so much I gave that up. Seems like there is an exception here in NC that may allow a variance from the rule. the exception depends on any modification that improves the emissions. I planning on checking into it on the basis of going to a 700r4 (better milage). yea, I'm a little nuts. good luck, Jim

 

[photovette]

Most cops I see are too fat to squeeze under a Vette and see what's missing.

Ain't it the truth! Sure is true in North Carolina...

 

[MidShark]

Either do it yourself or keep driving around to different shops until you find one who will do it "after hours- off the books". Bring cash!


Rich

 

[usrrree]

I have a 78 which I put a vortec 350 crate in, and piped duals, no cats, out the back. Registered the car as historic. Muffler shop balked at doing the final hook-up, but I asked him to call the state, he did, said I was right, and did the job. I also live in St. Louis, so the beauty of this is not I do not have to take the sniff test ever again.