Insurance an antique car in Mass

[mke]

Dose anyone know of an Insurance company in Mass (Woburn area) that insurances antique cars. I was going to have my 66 corvettes in NJ at American Collectors Insurance. But today at the register I was informed that they only accept Insurance Company in mass

 

[JohnZ]

Try Hagerty ( www.hagerty.com ) - they're the best collector insurance outfit out there, and they're licensed to operate in every state.

 

[myonnone]

Like Hagarty, American Collectors is licensed in Mass. You should have no problem with either.

 

[ctjackster]

Like Hagarty, American Collectors is licensed in Mass. You should have no problem with either.

the original poster, while a bit unclear, might have inquired with the Mass DMV about whether "American Collectors Insurance" is a licensed insurance company in Mass. They are not, neither is Haggerty - both Haggerty and American Collectors are "Managing General Agents" writing on behalf of real live insurance companies. As for the orginal poster, if that was his issue he should use "American Bankers Insurance Company of Florida" when speaking of the Ameican Collectors program, and Glens Falls Insurance Company (of the CNA Group, now maybe of the Encompass Group?) for Haggerty.

One other thing about Mass - that state does not permit "agreed value" coverage per se, but they do permit the same thing in essence (can agree to settle total losses based on the value stated on declarations page, is essence, an "agreed value") so you might encounter this fact when demanding "agreed Value" auto insurance in Mass

 

[critchie]

I just insured with Hagerty. Agreed value of $30K. $100/300/50 liability. $268/year. The insurance company is Glens Falls.

 

[dennisinmaryland]

No that I'm toooo biased, but State Farm does insure antiques and collectibles.
Dennis....State Farm Agent in Maryland

 

[Ron Miller]

No that I'm toooo biased, but State Farm does insure antiques and collectibles.
Dennis....State Farm Agent in Maryland

I'm not a State Farm agent, but I've had mine with State Farm for several years and have had nothing but excellent service from them. Yes, I've had a claim and had no problems with payment. And, they're much cheaper than Haggerty's or several of the others for my two cars. I had a couple of the others before I found out my long time home insurer, State Farm, also insured antique and collectible cars.

rlm

 

[ctjackster]

I'm not a State Farm agent, but I've had mine with State Farm for several years and have had nothing but excellent service from them. Yes, I've had a claim and had no problems with payment. And, they're much cheaper than Haggerty's or several of the others for my two cars. I had a couple of the others before I found out my long time home insurer, State Farm, also insured antique and collectible cars.

rlm

"they're much cheaper than Haggerty"

uhhhh, how do I put this nicely . . . . . mmmmmmmmmmm I doubt it.

Mr. State Farm agent (earlier poster) please quote a 40 year old male, clean MVR, $40,000 Agreed Value (no, not stated value), on a 65 Corvette, non-primary use vehicle, Garaged in, say, Hingham MA, limits of 20/40.

and the answer is . . . . . . . . . . . ?

[if State Farm is not able to touch $287 / yr or not get much below that, then they are not "much cheaper"

 

[Ron Miller]

"they're much cheaper than Haggerty"

uhhhh, how do I put this nicely . . . . . mmmmmmmmmmm I doubt it.

[if State Farm is not able to touch $287 / yr or not get much below that, then they are not "much cheaper"

Well, let me see if I can put it as nicely as you . . . . . . .mmmmmm, I know so.

My '65 has $32,000 full coverage, $1,000 deductible comp & collision, $25/50 K bodily injury/property damage (yes, it's too low, I'm in the process of raising it to $100/300 K), and $25/50 K Uninsured motorist (required in Missouri), for an annual premium of $127.60.

My '66 has $25,000 full coverage & identical coverage except $500 deductible on comp ($1,000 deductible on collision) for an annual premium of $133.20.

Now where I went to school, that totals $260.80 annually. And, that's for two cars. But, you need to check for yourself, like they say in the fine print, "Your Mileage May Vary". All I know is that it works for me!

By the way, State Farm has had all of my auto and homeowner's insurance since 1971, Corvettes since 1975.

:cool rlm

 

[dennisinmaryland]

Insurance

First, let me say that trying to compare Maryland rates to Mass or Mo is foolish. Rates depend on territory, usage and a lot of other factors. Second, I'd say anyone driving around with 20/40 limits is looking for a lawsuit.
But enough about that, my car, in Maryland, BI/PD limits of 250/500/100, PIP, $100 ded on comp, $500 ded on collision, uninsured limits as the BI/PD and an agreed value of...never mind, not really your business, but it's a lot more than $40k, is $167.80 per 6 months.
All you high rollers need to hear what I tell my clients, do you wanna buy it cheap and keep your tags or buy it right and keep your house?
Not trying to start a major argument here, but just inform.

 

[Ron Miller]

First, let me say that trying to compare Maryland rates to Mass or Mo is foolish. Rates depend on territory, usage and a lot of other factors. Second, I'd say anyone driving around with 20/40 limits is looking for a lawsuit.
But enough about that, my car, in Maryland, BI/PD limits of 250/500/100, PIP, $100 ded on comp, $500 ded on collision, uninsured limits as the BI/PD and an agreed value of...never mind, not really your business, but it's a lot more than $40k, is $167.80 per 6 months.
All you high rollers need to hear what I tell my clients, do you wanna buy it cheap and keep your tags or buy it right and keep your house?
Not trying to start a major argument here, but just inform.

And yours is insured with . . . . . . . .?

You're also right that no purpose is served trying to compare one location with another, and any comparison has to be made as nearly identically as possible.

By the way, a quick on-line quote for as nearly identical coverage from Hagerty's as in my above post is about $396=$408 per year for both cars. That, however, is with no deductible, the only way the on-line quote will let you enter the data.

 

[JohnZ]

Ron, you indicated your State Farm policy provided "full coverage" for your '65 and '66; do your policy declarations have "agreed value" (or an "agreed value" endorsement), "stated value", "declared value", "replacement value", or "ACV - actual cash value" in the event of a total loss? Aside from liabililty limits, that's the key issue. How does your policy define what State Farm will pay you in the event of a total loss?

 

[ctjackster]

Well, let me see if I can put it as nicely as you . . . . . . .mmmmmm, I know so.

My '65 has $32,000 full coverage, $1,000 deductible comp & collision, $25/50 K bodily injury/property damage (yes, it's too low, I'm in the process of raising it to $100/300 K), and $25/50 K Uninsured motorist (required in Missouri), for an annual premium of $127.60.

My '66 has $25,000 full coverage & identical coverage except $500 deductible on comp ($1,000 deductible on collision) for an annual premium of $133.20.

Now where I went to school, that totals $260.80 annually. And, that's for two cars. But, you need to check for yourself, like they say in the fine print, "Your Mileage May Vary". All I know is that it works for me!

By the way, State Farm has had all of my auto and homeowner's insurance since 1971, Corvettes since 1975.

:cool rlm

not trying to fight with a fellow enthusiast here, only trying to highlight some common misconceptions about insurance on these old cars of ours. And I happen to know a little something about insurance

First, your State Farm policy has a high deductible [$1000]. I cannot get a Hagerty quote on similar terms; I suspect a State Farm quote @ $300 deductible instead would bring that annual premium up. Second, and most importantly (and as JohnZ alluded to) if you cannot confirm that what you have is written on an "Agreed Value" basis (no, "Stated Amount" or "Actual Cash Value" is not the same) then we are talking apples to oranges, and I strongly urge you (as a fellow vette-lover friend) to consider the differences between these often misunderstood (and misrepresented) approaches. Hagerty writes "Agreed Value Coverage" (as does Grundy, American Collectors Insurnace, etc.)

here is a little article that does a fine job describing the differences between these coverage approaches:
http://www.classic-british-cars.com/classic-car-insurance.html


now, let me just say right here that "Agreed Value" insurnace doesn't work for everyone - for instance, if you use your 66 as a daily driver, you will not qualify since these collector car programs don't write that sort of risk exposure. In that case, State Farm would be an excellent choice, esp if you have your homeowners with them and get a combined discount. Assuming you find that State Farm is not writing Agreed Value coverage, of course

(ps, Mass has a little glitch in their insurance code that might result in someone saying that you cannot write agreed value there, not true, you just have to note the agreed value on the declarations page and refer to that, and you can have the full benefit of agreed value coverage.)

and Mr. State Farm agent (again not trying to fight, but you DID advertise in your first post, so let's see what you can do); I didn't ask you for a Md rate (I agree that we need sim specs for comparo quotes to make sense), I asked for a Mass quote, so we could compare - scoll up, note the very basic specs, and quote it if you can (on an Agreed Value basis, please). Heck, quote it in Md on that basis, I can generate a Hagerty quote online in seconds for that too. And since you own a Vette, I happen to call you a friend already . . . .

 

[dennisinmaryland]

Wow, this is really getting more involved than I thought it might. Guess that indicates
the quality of the discussions in here and that's a good thing.
Well, in answer to ctjackster's last post, I'm sorry I cannot give a Mass quote. State Farm Agent's (for the most part) are only licensed in the state where they do business, so I do not have access to Mass rates without contacting a Mass Agent and I will try to do that soon.
Next, my deductible isn't $1000.00, that was RonMiller. My collision deductible is $500.00. No, State farm doesn't write an "agreed amount" policy. We will write "stated amount" on an antique/classic car rating and ACV on a personal use vehicle (think daily driver here). However, after over 25 years of doing this, I have seen and have consulted with the claims people and if you go "stated value" we almost always end up paying that amount. The caveat here is documentation. The last 3 claims I reviewed involving antique/classic cars, we paid the entire stated amount, because the owners did their homework and had their cars documented. You MUST be interactive with your Agent and the company. It would be kind of amazing to see guys so involved in keeping their cars so cherry and then not be willing to have constant documentation of the value of that car.
Another important consideration here would be the uninsured/underinsured portion of my coverage. Maryland's uninsured coverage provides for underinsurance that basically works like this: if I am struck by a driver who is only carrying minimum liability(here in Maryland, that's 20/40/15) and my $55,000.000 new vette is totaled, the difference between what that brain-trust was carrying in PD (15K) is subtracted from my uninsured ($100K) and I have $85k in underinsured coverage to fix my car (and, no, it is not chargeable against me). State Farm would then subrogate against the underinsured driver and Mr Give-me-my-tags-at-the-cheapest-price would have Sate Farm's attornies up his 6 for quite a while and my car is repaired. Additional piece of mind, well worth the additional premium.
And I'll check Hagerty for a comp price for my car at stated value and let you know what I find but if I had to decide which company to pick, I'd still have to go with State Farm's 16,500 Agents in the USA and Canada and their claim centers and reputation almost any day...but I could be biased.

 

[Ron Miller]

Ron, you indicated your State Farm policy provided "full coverage" for your '65 and '66; do your policy declarations have "agreed value" (or an "agreed value" endorsement), "stated value", "declared value", "replacement value", or "ACV - actual cash value" in the event of a total loss? Aside from liabililty limits, that's the key issue. How does your policy define what State Farm will pay you in the event of a total loss?

It's in essence an agreed value, John, and I concur that's the key issue. As has been previously stated, it's very difficult to make a direct comparison of two insurance policies since strict agreement between the two in terms of coverages and limits is usually not possible.

The specific language in my State Farm policy is contained in Endorsement 6171BG, Antique or Classic Motor Vehicle, and states in part " . . . limit of liability for loss (Comprehensive and Collision Coverage) is the actual cash value" . . . . and that "You and we agree that the actual cash value of your car is the vehicle value shown on the declarations page . . . ".
My only recomnmendation is that anyone interested in collectible auto insurance look at several policies and coverages, as there are numerous ones out there, they all differ to degrees, and they are all too lengthly to completely list the terms of each one here.

My point in all of this is that one should not assume that one coverage fits all, hope that all folks will do some checking around and buy what suits you best. Just as there are preferences for colors, engines, and other options in these cars, there are also preferences in insurance, one policy won't fit all. I myself prefer a larger deductible in exchange for smaller premiums. I buy insurance to protect myself against the big losses, I'll take care of any smaller ones myself.

Lastly, I'm here to enjoy the hobby also, with all the rest of the folks on this forum, and hope I have also learned a thing or so about insurance over the years.

Cheers to all, Save the Wave!
rlm

 

[ctjackster]

Thanks Dennis for taking the time to draft an informative reply. We might disagree on the significance of Agreed Value coverage vs. Stated Amount Coverage. Most Stated Amount forms I know of provide that the insurance company will pay the lesser of the Stated Amount or the cost to repair the insured auto, in no event to exceed the Stated Amount. Sometimes “Actual Cash Value” is also included as a third possibility, whichever is lesser. Problem is, this invites disagreements with your insurer as to just what your pride and joy was worth when it was wrecked or stolen. You are not guaranteed a settlement amount that reflects the value of the car when a loss occurs. No such debate is possible with Agreed Value coverage, however.

I do not have a State Farm PA form handy, so I may not be describing how the State Farm Pers. Auto form works precisely; I do have industry forms on hand (ISO) though.


And I fully agree with your general UM/UIM advice.

 

[Ron Miller]

Wow, this is really getting more involved than I thought it might. Guess that indicates
the quality of the discussions in here and that's a good thing.

And I'll check Hagerty for a comp price for my car at stated value and let you know what I find but if I had to decide which company to pick, I'd still have to go with State Farm's 16,500 Agents in the USA and Canada and their claim centers and reputation almost any day...but I could be biased.

My thanks too, Dennis, for your post. And the last item you discuss regarding the company's agents and claims reputation is an extremely valid but often overlooked point. I have a whole other story regarding a collector car insurance settlement with State Farm that has kept me a loyal customer for several years now. You might could be biased, but I'm certain that I am!

rlm

 

[IH2LOSE]

http://lelandwest.com/What_You_Should_Know.cfm

This is a link to lealand west insurance comapny.If you take the time to read about What the wording actually means it is very educational.

I am not in the insurance business but I am very educated in proper coverage.If your dec page does not state AGREED VALUE then you are not covered properly.Again agreed value is more to protect you from a total loss.but if you have other then AGREED VALUE a minor front end collision (major glass repair) could cause your car to be totalled because it value is rated via A.C.V.Witch is always much lower then what the cars actual value is.

And there is no way you can negociate a fair settlement with an insurance company.There claims adjuster are paid to make the smallest claim settlement they possibly can.

Agreed value is agreed value any thing other then agreed value and you are not properly covered.

 

[DDLS3]

When I lived in Maine I had my 81 insured with the Demary Agency in Springfield, MA. He represented a couple of different collector car companies. Full coverage, no deductable, stated value policy $209

 

[c5vetter]

1963 Z06 - American Collector's Insurance - NO DEDUCTIBLE - 2500 miles/year - $416 - AGREED VALUE POLICY FOR $100,000