Insurance an antique car in Mass

[dennisinmaryland]

http://lelandwest.com/What_You_Should_Know.cfm

This is a link to lealand west insurance comapny.If you take the time to read about What the wording actually means it is very educational.

I am not in the insurance business but I am very educated in proper coverage.If your dec page does not state AGREED VALUE then you are not covered properly.Again agreed value is more to protect you from a total loss.but if you have other then AGREED VALUE a minor front end collision (major glass repair) could cause your car to be totalled because it value is rated via A.C.V.Witch is always much lower then what the cars actual value is.

And there is no way you can negociate a fair settlement with an insurance company.There claims adjuster are paid to make the smallest claim settlement they possibly can.

Agreed value is agreed value any thing other then agreed value and you are not properly covered.

To IH2LOSE,
If you do not have "agreed avlaue" you are not covered properly? Do you not have to estalish the value of the car to get agreed value? Wouldn't the prudent person continue to document the car's worth, as he does the authenticity of every numbers-matching-anal-retentive impulse to document that drives us in this hobby? Then I don't see a difference in the way my company settles, if the car is properly documented and maintained.
Secondly, "And there is no way you can negociate a fair settlement with an insurance company"...this sounds more like you've had experience with divorce attornies than with quality insurance companies. ALL policies have an arbitration clause. If the company offers what you feel is an unfair settlement on a totaled vehicle, go into an aribration hearing with ads for comparable cars, appraisals from professionals and other documentation and you will see arbitrators tend to side with the man who has prof, rather than the company that says "these are what our books say." I know, I've been there, done that.

 

[IH2LOSE]

As I understand it. Agreed value is an upfront agreed upon value for your vehicle that incase of a total loss you will be paid that amount PERIOD no negotiation, No further documentation, No arbitration, No proving nothing just send me the check.



Where as if you have a stated value and you have a loss it is settled as if it’s an A.C.V. policy where you have to prove the cars value. You can have a certified appraisal today and have a loss tomorrow and that appraisal only becomes a tiny tool in proving your cars value which is what you have to do with a policy other then AGREED VALUE. Stated value means exactly how it worded, it is a statement that the absolute maximum your underwriters will have to pay is the stated value(not that they plan on paying it or even close to it is just there maximum liabilaty). Not the case in an agreed value policy. And as soon as a claim becomes settled with A.C.V. policy you are at a disadvantage of proving your cars value after a loss when you do not have an upper hand. You are forced into making a hasty settlement because of the tactics of a claims adjuster.

As for having the capabilities to fight for a better settlement you are correct on that but with the costs of an agreed value policy being equal in cost with other then agreed value policy’s why put your self through the hassle of delaying a repair or claim settlement to prove you can negotiate with the trained adjusters.



Use caution making the statement that other then AGREED VALUE is good for a collector car. Maybe your experience in the industry give’s you an advantage in settling a claim. But the average collector car owner as myself cannot get enough of an education fast enough to settle a claim to know when an insurance adjuster tells you if you do not settle the claim today they will remove your un-drivable car from the repair shop because they wont pay storage past 7 days. or the adjuster tell you how generous he was with the value he used for your car and if he has to go back and work the numbers again and the value falls slightly you car may become a total loss that although you can purchase it back and have it repaired it will have a salvage title and probably be worth less in the future. So again remind me of the benefit of not using an agreed value policy. Think of what you’re saying here. If your car is used as a collectable car (not used as a second car) there is NO better policy available even if you had to pay twice the price. If you’re using it as a second car then yes I would insure it differently But if you have a collector car the best policy for it is an AGREED VALUE policy

 

[IH2LOSE]

In disecting what you have said

To IH2LOSE,
If you do not have "agreed avlaue" you are not covered properly? Do you not have to estalish the value of the car to get agreed value?
Yes not only do you have to determine the value but it should be updated as needed as it seems most valuble collector cars are increasing in value yearly.An easey way to become under insured is to not visit the value of a car and update the policy yearley to take into account the increase in value.

Wouldn't the prudent person continue to document the car's worth, as he does the authenticity of every numbers-matching-anal-retentive impulse to document that drives us in this hobby? Then I don't see a difference in the way my company settles, if the car is properly documented and maintained.

You use the term maintained and again this is another way for the insurance company to lessen your value of your car by stating it was not properly maintained.And the only reason it come into place is its another way to lessen the value of your car by bringing in a ridiculous reason.How much maintnence is needed on a car being driven on week ends and cruise nights
Secondly, "And there is no way you can negociate a fair settlement with an insurance company"...this sounds more like you've had experience with divorce attornies than with quality insurance companies.(No not a divorce lawyer by the grace of god I was blessed with a wonderful wife and mother for my children Divorce would never be an option for me I am in it till death do we part ) ALL policies have an arbitration clause. If the company offers what you feel is an unfair settlement on a totaled vehicle, go into an aribration hearing with ads for comparable cars,(An advertizement for a simular car only shows the asking price it doesnot show the actual selling price and is not a good tool to bring to the table ) appraisals from professionals (you use the term appraisals as in plural meaning more then one and at a cost of about $400.00 a peice and a normal scheduling lead time to have it done of at least 2 weeks it gets exspencive and also time consuming to accomplish And in the case of a fire damaged car or a missing stolen car the appraisal become impossible to have done)and other documentation ( what other documentation the recipts for rebuilding the car? It a known fact it cost more to build and restore a car normally then what it could be purchased for and althought it helps you along Again why go thru all of this Agreed value eliminates all of this )and you will see arbitrators tend to side with the man who has prof, rather than the company that says "these are what our books say." I know, I've been there, done that.

How long does it currently take to schedule an abertation hearing?And where is the arbitration hearing held?Who pays for the meeting area and staffing at the abertration hearing? What side of the table were you on at the arbitration hearing being on the side of the insured is alot more uncomfortable then on the side of the insurer.Take the time to read what may be considered "boiler plate' wording on arbertration in the policy manual its not quite as freindly to the consumer as you described above.

The absolute worst part of the this insurance thing is that agent's are missunderstanding or misrepresenting -Actual Cash Value, Stated Value or Stated Amount to be the same as an Agreed value policy and charging the same amounts to unsuspecting clients.As consumers with little knowledge we count on our agents to send us in the correct direction even if it means selling us a policy other then there main underwrighter even if it means less of a commision or bonus to the agent Or if the agent has to send us out of his office to purchase the correct product.

Even understanding that you are an agent for an insurance company,I would still recomend you to look into a policy that will offer you agreed value to properly insure you new corvette.I dont want to insult you here but you may be promoting the other then agreed value policy's for so long to your client you may actually start beliving they are equal. This is realy some basic information and if you step back from it for a momment you may be purchasing an agreed value policy to properly protect you vette

 

[JohnZ]

My family has been in the casualty insurance business since 1923, and I like to think I know more than the average bear about it. If you have a collector car that's worth more than the value assigned to it as a used car by the usual Kelley books and other references used by insurers to establish "ACV" or "replacement value" in the event of a total loss, and the usage of the car qualifies it for an "agreed value" collector policy (with the usual operating restrictions to minimize loss exposure/risk), you're underinsured and setting yourself up for a lot of unnecessary hassle (arbitration, negotiation with adjusters, etc.) and potential financial loss with anything but an "agreed value" policy from a collector insurer. If the usage pattern of the car doesn't qualify it for a "collector" policy, you're stuck with a conventional policy and are at the mercy of the insurer's determination of your car's "value" in the event of a total loss, and all the hassle and delays that go along with it.

I have a professional appraisal done on every collector car I buy (about $100-$150 by a local professional who specializes in collector cars and whose assessments are accepted by the collector insurers), and I have him update those appraisals every two years as the market value of each of the cars increases; my insurer accepts those updates and increases my "agreed value" on each policy without question, usually with a very small increase in the premium, if any. If I have a total loss, they send me a check that matches the "agreed value" number on the policy declarations page - period.

"Stated Value" is a misnomer, and that term lulls some people into thinking that they're insured for that amount (and some agents who aren't familiar with insuring collector cars don't know the difference either); "stated value" does absolutely nothing for the policyholder - all it does is "cap" the maximum amount the insurer is obligated to pay, but they still determine the amount of a total loss payout however they choose, in accordance with their internal valuation techniques and formulas, just like they do for an everyday normal auto policy (with the attendant hassle, negotiations, and/or arbitration procedures).

If your collector car is worth more than the Kelley book says it is, and you don't have an "agreed value" policy, you're underinsured. Period.

 

[critchie]

I'm an attorney. Spent 10 years as a insurance company claims adjuster, and then 4 years after law school representing insurance companies. JohnZ is 100% correct.

 

[DDLS3]

With all the discussion on Agreed Value and Stated Value I just pulled mine out and looked to see what I had. I've always called it a Stated Value policy, wrong again, and luckily, it is an Agreed Value policy. thanks for the primer on collector car insurance.

 

[IH2LOSE]

With all the discussion on Agreed Value and Stated Value I just pulled mine out and looked to see what I had. I've always called it a Stated Value policy, wrong again, and luckily, it is an Agreed Value policy. thanks for the primer on collector car insurance.

You know on every post we have here on collector car insurance I normally URGE every one to double check there policies to insure they have AGEEDED VALUE and to make sure the value is correct intoday's market.

Now you just got to check your home owners to see if that is correct.

 

[JJS]

Metropolitan vs Haggerty's

My car ('71 LT1) is insured by Metropolitan. Last year when I purchased the car, I gave them the appraisal ($30K) and I pay about $1200.00 per year. I've only put a little over 1000 miles on it, and I think the $1.2K is a lot more than I should be paying for a car that's stored more often than not.

I'm thinking of switching to Haggerty's but I'm a little skeptical. Do they have any offices in Mass? Has anyone placed a claim with them? If so, any hassles or issues?

I'll be storing the car from November to at least April of next year, and I want to make sure the car is covered while in storage. I was told recently that some insurance companies will not insure a car if it's in storage with other cars. Mine will be stored with several other classic corvettes. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Oh yeah, Ron's corvette restorations (Fitchburg, MA) is currently performing an appraisal on the car.

 

[65vettish]

Wow, lots of good reading material here! There is also some good advice in some of these posts. What's interesting is the fact that most of us don't know what our policies really provide. We depend on our agent to "take care of us" and don't ever read the policy. When obtaining any car insurance quote, classic or otherwise, make the agent work for his commission. Have him explain any areas of coverage which are unclear to you. When you receive your policy, read it. Make sure it has the coverage you were quoted and agreed to. Be careful of purchasing coverage over the internet unless you are a knowledgeable consumer. Never buy minimum liability limits unless you feel comfortable putting your personal assets at risk. A good agent won't sell you minimum limits. He's not trying to overcharge you. He just knows you're not properly protected with minimum limits. He also doesn't want you suing him when you're in an at fault accident and don't have enough liablity limits to pay for the injury or damage you caused. You should also consider the purchase of Uninsured Motorists coverage equal to your liability limits. Remember, you can not control the driving or insurance purchasing habits of other drivers. An umbrella policy should also be considered. Make sure you understand the difference between the various valuation clauses available for classic cars. Know what you're buying so that when the loss occurs you won't be surprised. Hope this helps.