Is There a Fuel Injected Crate Motor that fits under the hood of a 71?

[Whiplash]

Now that the rear end is out of the car and the transmission looks like it's next I'm thinking I better consider the replacement motor now for planning. I've decided I want to try and have a fuel injected crate motor. It will make starting a lot easier for my wife and give some good gas mileage.

I've seen the GM Ramjet 350 crate motor on another thread for a mid-year. What I don't know is if it will fit under the hood on a 71 small block car. The intake seems very tall. I don't think I want to go the LS1 route and have to deal with all the mods.

Thoughts anyone? Or should I just go with a ZZ4 and nix the fuel injection idea?

Thanks,

Whiplash

 

[photovette]

The cost of the fuel injection unit would buy 1,217 gallons of gas at today's prices. I doubt it would add more than 2 or 3 mpg; C4's, C5's, and C6's get pretty much the same fuel economy as us around town.

Get the ZZ4 and put a new Quadrajet on it. Or, you can do what I did and really save some money; buy a performance-rebuilt 355 and put the new Quadrajet on that. It looks stock, but I can whoop a C5 (unless it's driven by an experienced driver) light to light.

Besides, with a new motor and new carb, it should start like brand new again right?

 

[GerryLP]

One can achieve near 100% volumetric efficiency with a dual carb induction or a supercharger. One bad side, like you said, is the amount of modification required -The FI will also require a new tank (or baffled fuel port) and fuel delivery system (electric pump).

On the other hand, Sequential Fuel Injection (SFI) is the newest jump in FI technology. And if you find an automotive computer Guru, then maybe you can enjoy some real performance (and reliability) above stock level and still maintain emmission levels legal.

FI is more reliable compared to carburation. In general terms is sort of like the jump from solid to hydraulic lifters. One can make more horsepower with solid lifters, but it also requires more maintenance attention. If you want to get into your vehicle and go, then go FI. If you like to tinker with your vehicle, then stay carburated.

GerryLP:cool

 

[Whiplash]

One bad side, like you said, is the amount of modification required -The FI will also require a new tank (or baffled fuel port) and fuel delivery system (electric pump).

On the other hand, Sequential Fuel Injection (SFI) is the newest jump in FI technology. And if you find an automotive computer Guru, then maybe you can enjoy some real performance (and reliability) above stock level and still maintain emmission levels legal.

FI is more reliable compared to carburation. ...If you want to get into your vehicle and go, then go FI. If you like to tinker with your vehicle, then stay carburated.

GerryLP:cool

The good news is the car is a 71 without smog (it's the ac/4spd/low hp 350). I've seen some TBI kits and then more elaborate SFI. What I'm hoping for is the reliability of a modern FI like, I have now in my Z06 and had in my C4. But as the post above notes $2-3K for FI when a new carb will work just fine is a factor to consider.

Please keep the posts coming. I'm still hoping there's a cost effectiv FI solution out there. The return lines to the tank and electric fuel pump don't bother me. I'm not even too worried about the computer tuning requirements. It more about finding something that fits, bolts on to a crate motor or comes with it, and is cost effective or at a minimum not totally out of control from a cost perspective.

Whiplash

 

[lone73]

Fuel Injection

... I've decided I want to try and have a fuel injected crate motor. It will make starting a lot easier for my wife and give some good gas mileage.

I've seen the GM Ramjet 350 crate motor on another thread for a mid-year. What I don't know is if it will fit under the hood on a 71 small block car. The intake seems very tall. I don't think I want to go the LS1 route and have to deal with all the mods.

Thoughts anyone? Or should I just go with a ZZ4 and nix the fuel injection idea?

Thanks,

Whiplash

I have an F/I intake on my '73 that is pretty tall and it barely fits but I don't know how it compares to the Ramjet. Mine is from Street & Performance, I have their "Tunnel Ram" intake manifold. You might give S&P a call and see what they can tell you about the Ramjet compared to their Tunnel Ram. They sell and install both motors in their shop. If they tell you it's a little shorter then obviously it will fit.
Street & Performance... http://www.hotrodlane.cc/

Putting fuel injection on a vette is a very fun project IMHO. I did mine about three years ago and have had a few bumps to deal with along the way but overall I would do it again if given the choice. I wouldn't mind helping you with everything I know about it if you want to give it a try. several folks here on this board have F/I on their cars, I'm sure they would all be more than willing to help out as well.

I would definitely go the stock computer and use a stock 90ish vette intake manifold if I were you. You should be able to get all the hardware for the install for around $1500. I have an Accel gen 6 computer and harness on my car and I'm looking to make the switch over to a stock computer.The aftermarkets can be a real bugger to tune and you really need a dyno and experienced mechanic to get it very close. That's major $$$. My local Accel EMIC rep quoted me about $800 to do a tune session on my car. Needless to say I've spent a lot of time driving down the road with my laptop computer in my wifes lap.

Running the fuel lines and figuring out how to deal with the tank and pump is the biggest prob with fuel injection in my opinion. There are several ways to go. I just ran an external fuel pump mounted to a piece of the frame right in front of and above the spare tire, I put a big filter upstream of it and cut the sock off the pick up tube in the tank. I drive my car on a daily basis and I don't worry about it breaking down too much, I think its pretty reliable even using the Accel computer.

If you decide to go F/I it will definitely not be cheap but IMHO you will benefit from your cars dependability for years to come.

here are a few more links you can read up on F/I if you want...

http://home.att.net/~jroal/efi.html

http://www.customefis.com/ (F/I setup available from this guy)

good luck with it
.
.
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[mrvette]

Whip, ten years ago when I bought my then garage queen '72 SB convetible, L48, one of the first things I did with it was note the fuel economy at about 12 mpg mixed bad driving.....so one of the obvious rememberances was when the '87 vette was running right, (another story) it got ~22 mpg around town....now, the only differance for all practical purposes was the DPFI, so I put a L98 injection setup on it, and DOUBLED the fuel economy, meanwhile keeping the original muncie 4 speed, which turned 4 grand at 80 mph....336 rear....
but up in Maryland it's tough to cruise at 80 for very long...cops, traffic, required distances...so it didn't matter...
but here in Florida...yeh, hour after hour at 80....
so in went the overdrive auto...chose the rong one, a 700 as opposed to the 200 but that's life...
went hotrod with the engine too....still get nearly 20 mpg...not as good as before but now it's pushing 400 hp instead of 250, so somehow penalties are paid....

GENE

 

[patsnitrovette]

I agree with gene,going fuel injection and a 700r4 was the best thing ive done,i get approximately 18-22 mpg(3.70 gears) and enough low end torque to burn the tires off of it for blocks.I also modified a late model sending unit to fit my 73 tank and used a walbro 255 intank pump.

 

[GerryLP]

Nitrovette,

Is the intake manifold bottom section bolt pattern like a Vortec head one?

GerryLP:cool

 

[patsnitrovette]

Its a 87(fbody) style setup so i had to drill the center bolt holes on angles to line up with my sportsman 2 heads.

 

[silvernblack]

I've got a RamJet 350 in my '68...

However I have an L88 hood. I'll try to attach some pictures for you to look at..

 

[bossvette]

the key to gas milage is both FI and an OD trans get a few books about TPI swaps and read up on it. The best bet is engine/trans/wireing harness complete from a donor car. I will never go back to a carb car again.

 

[Whiplash]

the key to gas milage is both FI and an OD trans get a few books about TPI swaps and read up on it. The best bet is engine/trans/wireing harness complete from a donor car. I will never go back to a carb car again.

Everyone,

Thank you for the replies. I got off track and off line for a while as I was finishing up the rear suspension and lost track of this thread. Thank you very much for the posts. I'm now done with suspension all around and am ready for Motor and Trans. The old 270hp 350 still runs pretty good but has to go this winter. Swap time for sure. Fuel Injection is a strong desire. The wide ratio 4 speed needs a redo as well. I've got a great place near by to do that work. I'd like a 5 or 6 speed like my 02 Z06 but I can live with the Muncie for now (don't want to cut the tunnel or the cross member).

Thank you very much for the Ram Jet pics. I'm going to do some measuring this weekend. Also I've seen the Accel FI setup which they say is tuned for the ZZ4. I like the look but not so much the price. Holley TBI FI looks simple but makes me wonder if I wouldn't be better off with just a new Qjet.

I'm back and serious about the swap. Any more posts or ideas would be appreciated. The wife is asking for Christmas gift ideas so I'm trying to put a complete list together so she can just call and order from Santa.

Please keep the posts/ideas coming and thanks to those that replied but didn't hear back from me sooner.

Regards,

Whiplash

 

[Crimson Thunder]

The new race pump from Stewart seems to solve the fuel tank issue when changing over to fuel injection.Let me know what you think.www.racepumps.com

 

[bossvette]

a real good source for info is a book by JTR publishing called Chevrolet TBI and TPI engine swapping if you buy only one book this is the one to get. I am doing a TPI swap in my Ole Yellow truck and post pictures from time to time as I progress.
A tpi fits under a stock hood as there are many C3's around with them in it here are a couple of links to pictures of my 76
TPI
TKO install

BTW a LT1 or LT4 will fit also and they are sequential but have a different cooling system

 

[lone73]

bossvette,
what brand is that intake?

 

[patsnitrovette]

he has slp runners on it ,upper looks stock not sure lower intake.

im actually swapping from tpi to a lsx based motor over the winter,i really like the tpi,but i need a change.

 

[bossvette]

It is a 91 Vette baseplate with SLP runners with a late model plenum they have been opened up and shortened. I will be pulling that engine when I finish the YT and replacing it. Craig Jr has his DL and a very good report card from school so I told him if he carries Honor Roll all year I would put a little motor in the 76 and he could drive it as long as he keeps up his grades.
I may sell that setup this winter and go with a Holley Stealth Ram for my next Project Vette I really want a steel bumper vert to play with

BTW I did this install back in the winter of 2000 and up till I bought my 97 it was my daily driver

 

[lone73]

Hmmmm. Upper plenum looks too squared off for stock to me but I'm not used to seeing them at all. Ain't got one in my garage.

looks really nice though ! I like those runners...

 

[Art Jett]

I have a 77 coupe and I'm putting a 383 stroker short block with Brodix heads and a TPI system in it. Also a 700R-4 tranny. The TPI system is from Affordable Fuel Injection and comes complete with everything needed. The price for the complete setup is going to be about $4800.00 + tax. This is for all new stuff. I got the idea from a resto shop near me that had a 74 there with almost the same setup.

 

[bossvette]

I have a 77 coupe and I'm putting a 383 stroker short block with Brodix heads and a TPI system in it. Also a 700R-4 tranny. The TPI system is from Affordable Fuel Injection and comes complete with everything needed. The price for the complete setup is going to be about $4800.00 + tax. This is for all new stuff. I got the idea from a resto shop near me that had a 74 there with almost the same setup.

Once you get that installed you will have to get the grin surgically removed from your face