Is This Normal? Service Writer Says So!

[Rogue]

GM Junkie you out there? Need your input!

So back in 2003 when I first got my C4, my Vette had squeeling brakes when they got hot with some noticeable brake shudder. The previous owner has installed Autozone brand brake pads to save $$ and I knew the pads did not fit properly and that caused the pads to sing. So I took my Vette to the dealership to have the brakes "checked". Immediately the service writer told me squeeling brakes on Corvettes is normal. WTF? I told him it is NOT and I want it fixed. They actually did fix it by replacing pads with factory pads and they also machined the rotors to get rid of the shudder. Problem solved.

Not long after that I took my motorcycle to the dealership to have tires installed. When I was picking up my motorcycle, another customer was picking up his bike which just had a new drivechain installed. I looked down at the newly installed drivechain and it was obvious the chain length was incorrect (it was too short) because the chain slack adjuster was all the way to one end and the rear wheel was up against its stops! I pointed this out to the owner. The owner confronted the service manager and guess what the Service guy said? You guessed it! It was normal! The two started arguing and I left before the shxx hit the fan!

Fast forward to 2010. I just bought a Certified Used Mustang GT and the brakes were squealing when they got hot. I could also feel a shudder. I knew the dealership had just replaced the car's brake pads as that is the first thing they do to a Certified Used Car. But the squealing and brake shudder were unacceptable. So I took the car back to the dealership where I bought it and told them I want the issue rectified. Guess what the first thing the Service Writer told me: Yup! It was normal! I almost fell out of my bucket seat! I looked the Service Writer in the eye with a stern face and told him straight out that him and me knew for a fact this behavior is not normal and I want it fixed. Well, they did fix it simply by re-machining the rotors to provide a clean surface for the new pads. Presto! No more squealing, shudder, and more braking power.

So I gotta ask: is it standard operating procedure for Service Writers/mechanics to tell customers that certain behavior in cars is "normal" when it really isn't?

These incidents were not the only times I've been fed that line of crap.

 

[92BlackVette]

Congratulations on finding a certified used mustang, never knew they could certify a mustang. Learn something new everyday.

 

[navy2kcoupe]

Yeah, usually they're "Certified 'AB'-Used Mustangs"
Andy

 

[Rex S]

Although I don't believe in cutting rotors, the story is the same at many shops.

Did some work on a 68 Ford LTD for an older gentleman (one owner car) after he took it to Goodyear to have the transmission serviced. After being parked in the garage he found trany fluid under the car. Took it back and was told "all old cars do that" and they refused to look at it. They had put a new vac modulator in the trany along with the fluid change and had left about 7/8 of the old gasket on the transmission so it had a really good leak. After fixing his original problem and showing him some other things that were on the verge of going out (radiator seeping, water pump shaft with lots of play, rock hard hoses, vent window transmission) he was also good for another $600.00 worth of needed repaires GY missed out on.

 

[93Rubie]

Cheap @$$ brake pads and rotors=stay away from at all costs.

Raybestos seems to be a good aftermarket brand for your DD's out there. Stick to factory or quality aftermarket for your fun toys.

I have seen cheap pads squeal like pigs from all the metal in them, you can actually sometimes see the chunks. Brake pulsation is never normal, you will get more squealing with semi-metallic pads then from organic ones for instance, but if it is quality stuff, you shouldn't no matter what the material is. Performance brakes can make more noise than regular brakes can, for instance in Europe, their pads tend to make more dust and noise, but they have superior braking performance compared to typically American pad, we like them clean and quiet.

Notice I said can in many examples not they will or won't.

Sometimes, it is normal for the brakes to squeal a bit in the morning for the first couple brake applications, especially when its wet out. My Ford Focus does this and it even states in the owners manual that it can in the situation above.

 

[parkercoman]

Yup

Yup that normal. Actually I hate bad Service like that. It should be like malpractice

 

[Sunstroked]

Its normal if the car is under warranty and could potentially cost the dealer money. If not the case, you'll make him a rich man.

Actually, not many shops do machine rotors anymore. A friend and auto repair shop owner sold his brake lathe yrs ago. With the poor quality rotors being sold today, not much chance of them being in a condition that would allow resurfacing. And new rotors for most domestic and foreign autos are cheap $$. For instance, on my sons car, the local NAPA dealer wanted $15 to turn the rotors, Thats $60 for the 4. Brand new rotors cost $100 for all 4. I bought new. As for your motorcycle chain story, any new chain will stretch a bit after break in. So, the rear wheel being up against the adjusters all the way in, could very well have been normal situation.

 

[Rogue]

As for your motorcycle chain story, any new chain will stretch a bit after break in. So, the rear wheel being up against the adjusters all the way in, could very well have been normal situation.

I gotta disagree with you on that.

That chain was missing at least 3 links to be like that. The correct length chain would have the wheel within the proper specified location (the middle) especially if it's a new chain. Done it many times on my bikes. Trust me, they screwed that one up. They probably had a chain that needed to be cut to fit but the mechanic took out too many links. Yet another reason why I do my own work nowadays.

 

[Rogue]

Sometimes, it is normal for the brakes to squeal a bit in the morning for the first couple brake applications, especially when its wet out. My Ford Focus does this and it even states in the owners manual that it can in the situation above.

Oh I'm with you on sometimes.....but not all the time! As soon as it got hot those pads were squealin' like disturbed mice! It was loud enough to hurt my ears if I had the windows open. Now they are smooth and silent. Squealing pads is usually due to poor fit that allows the pad to oscillate/vibrate causing the noise. Honestly there is no excuse for sqealing brakes because 99.9% of the time, even on high performance cars and motorcycles, they do NOT squeal yet work wonderfully. If a carmaker can't make quiet brakes that still work properly, then they didn't do their job right.

 

[toptechx6]

GM Junkie you out there? Need your input!

So back in 2003 when I first got my C4, my Vette had squeeling brakes when they got hot with some noticeable brake shudder. The previous owner has installed Autozone brand brake pads to save $$ and I knew the pads did not fit properly and that caused the pads to sing. So I took my Vette to the dealership to have the brakes "checked". Immediately the service writer told me squeeling brakes on Corvettes is normal. WTF? I told him it is NOT and I want it fixed. They actually did fix it by replacing pads with factory pads and they also machined the rotors to get rid of the shudder. Problem solved.

Not long after that I took my motorcycle to the dealership to have tires installed. When I was picking up my motorcycle, another customer was picking up his bike which just had a new drivechain installed. I looked down at the newly installed drivechain and it was obvious the chain length was incorrect (it was too short) because the chain slack adjuster was all the way to one end and the rear wheel was up against its stops! I pointed this out to the owner. The owner confronted the service manager and guess what the Service guy said? You guessed it! It was normal! The two started arguing and I left before the shxx hit the fan!

Fast forward to 2010. I just bought a Certified Used Mustang GT and the brakes were squealing when they got hot. I could also feel a shudder. I knew the dealership had just replaced the car's brake pads as that is the first thing they do to a Certified Used Car. But the squealing and brake shudder were unacceptable. So I took the car back to the dealership where I bought it and told them I want the issue rectified. Guess what the first thing the Service Writer told me: Yup! It was normal! I almost fell out of my bucket seat! I looked the Service Writer in the eye with a stern face and told him straight out that him and me knew for a fact this behavior is not normal and I want it fixed. Well, they did fix it simply by re-machining the rotors to provide a clean surface for the new pads. Presto! No more squealing, shudder, and more braking power.

So I gotta ask: is it standard operating procedure for Service Writers/mechanics to tell customers that certain behavior in cars is "normal" when it really isn't?

These incidents were not the only times I've been fed that line of crap.

Oh yeah! I worked in dealerships for 33 years and in that time met less than a handful of service writers who knew anything about a car. Service writer is an entry level "SALES" position, if the customer complaint will not earn them a commission such as a job that is covered by warranty or under "shop policy" the customer will be told it is "Normal".
Ask the same question when the car is out of warranty and I can guarantee you that you will be told you need repairs.:L

 

[Sunstroked]

I gotta disagree with you on that.

That chain was missing at least 3 links to be like that. The correct length chain would have the wheel within the proper specified location (the middle) especially if it's a new chain. Done it many times on my bikes. Trust me, they screwed that one up. They probably had a chain that needed to be cut to fit but the mechanic took out too many links. Yet another reason why I do my own work nowadays.

You may very well be right. But as a professional mechanic, (earns a living in the occupation) I never assume anything. As the saying goes, assume makes an ass out of you and me!

 

[surfer93]

Two things:
Why take the car to the dealer for brakes?
Not being a smart ass, but any brake shop knows more than a dealer.
Never take a car to a dealer for normal maintenance and repairs.

Second, I have autozone brakes on all my cars and they are great. The problem was probably the pads were not installed right, people to often blame the parts for things they did wrong.

 

[92BlackVette]

Ya I bought my ceramic pads from there too, and they work just fine. I put like 50K miles on two sets so far, and I drive it daily. There are AC-Delco loyalist among us, so.......I giggle when I read these threads anyways. I get a little sad though when I read about mustangs though.

 

[air1jpg]

I have autozone pads on the front and I haven't had a problem.

 

[bucket]

and tire guys will swear that didnt warp your rotors

 

[Rogue]

Second, I have autozone brakes on all my cars and they are great. The problem was probably the pads were not installed right, people to often blame the parts for things they did wrong.

The Mustang is a Certified Used Car with a bumper to bumper warranty. So I took it to the dealer because they did not charge me for fixing the brake issue.

As for the Corvette, my prior experience with other cars and bikes are when aftermarket parts don't fit or work as good as stock, sometimes it's better to go back to OEM. I've had aftermarket pads in other vehicles and sometimes they work well, sometimes they don't. My experience with brake pads is if the aftermarket squeals its due to poor fit, compound, rotor surface, all of the above, and replacing with OEM usually fixes it. So far that experience has proven true. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Rogue]

I get a little sad though when I read about mustangs though.

That's too bad for you because they are nice cars.

Seriously, why the hate against Mustangs? The car is as iconic as the Corvette, both epitomizing the American sports car, and it has every right to exist. I wish you could respect other people's rides as much as others respect yours. I like all cars and I appreciate all the high performance models.

 

[douglas foster]

father & son

please understand, love your family,work hard,and cherish a good honest dependable mechanic!!!! there out there just ask around,you will live long and prosper.