Just about the worse that could happened...happened.

[61 Silver]

As most of you know I thought I just about finished the restoration of my 1963 Coupe. The Engine still was giving me problems, just didn't sound right, hard to start, and seeing a lot of steam in the exhaust. A lot of valve tap, and engine sounded more like one from a old farm truck then a Corvette. Well I brought it back to the shop (beyond my skill level now) and had them drop the pan and look at the bottom end.

UUUGGGGHHHHH....the new cam shaft was toast, front lob was worn done completely, leaving the question of where did all the metal go? The coolent was leaking found some on the bottom of the pan, futher inspection revealed pinholes leaks through the walls in the block, and its just a plain mess. After closer examination, and long talks with the shop, I have decided to purchas a new long block from Engines Limited that will be broched, with my VIN and Engine build dates. The block is just plain gone, to little to sleeve, to much overall damage over it 40 year history, and it seems to have a ghost in it.

So I am back to square one again, purchasing a L-76 Engine, but this time I am going back to the solid lifters and rebuild it EXACT. Getting a long block, expensive but at least I will get it right and its pretested with a warrenty.

Wife was not very happy, but I must say very understanding in the matter. I will tell you one thing, by the time I finish this stupid car it will be a brand new Corvette without a doubt. Since the engine is coming out, I am now going to fix a few of the suspension items that don't really need are now going to replaced to NCRS Judging standards...

WILL IT EVERY END :W

1963 FI block!

Ray
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33613&item=7954234380&rd=1

 

[Rowdy1]

Remember.........

I bought a block before I found my current one for $200 with a crank. Took it to the machine shop and only after having the boring done did we see a crack in one cylinder. Moral of my story is, I got my $200 back, but it cost me $140.00 for the machine work. Make sure you can get your money back on any block you buy if it turns out to not be any good, talk to your machine shop and see what their policy is if you have to return it.

 

[BarryK]

If you're concerned with the originality of the car, why not just get another engine and have IT ready in case the #'s matching goes. If you drive the car sanely it will last you a VERY long time, and if you're having the car NCRS judged to me, that's a different story but if you're living out a fantasy or a life long dream, so what? If you bought the car for an investment, park it in a bubble not to mention, there are SO many people being taken by "#'s matching" cars that are in fact NOT, it's apples and oranges. I am in NO WAY questioning your reason for buying or your use of, but if resale is that important, I'm not sure it's valid. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and from what I've been reading on how you take care of Baby and the work you're having done now, you may already be in way over what you'll EVER get out of her, my point being, drive it with pride, you earned it, and damn the ones that frown when you say, it's NOM.

Rowdy
I understand completely what you are saying but for me sometimes things are more than just "logic". Emotions and feelings come into play for me a lot when I think of Baby. First off, at the moment I can't imagine ever selling her although I DO think of her a bit as an investment knowing that I could at the very least get what I have into her back out again (I DO NOT think I have more into her than market value. In fact I think looking at current pricing I could still squeeze a tiny profit if I choose to sell her but that's not my priority)
It's kind of hard for me to explain fully but i'll at least try a little.
I feel there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with having a NOM car but at the same time having a fully restored car that still retains it's ORIGINAL motor (not just a numbers matching motor which could be done by restamping) makes the car a little more special. i understand not everyone feels the same way - like I said, sometimes it's just emotions or feelings as opposed to pure logic. Also, if resale value is factored in, a true original motor car I feel would bring a bit of a higher price so retaining the original motor just helps keeps the value up - just in case I ever did sell her.
As for the idea of possibly swapping the motor for a crate motor and storing the original, the "logic" behing that would be to be able to enjoy driving the car more withoutworrying about damaging the original motor. With a crate motor if something happens it's "only" an expense to fix or replace it but other than money no real loss. If I destoyed the original motor somehow my emotions tell me I'm losing a part of the original history of the car and to me that's really a shame.
Driving the car with a crate motor would allow me to probably enjoy the car more as I wouldn't worry about the motor as much knowing the orginal is still safe and sound in storage always ready to be dropped back in the car if I were to ever sell her.
Buying Baby was a lifelong dream and part of that dream was an "original" car - or at least as much as one as I could find and afford.
Baby is not an NCRS car although without too much more done at this point she probably could be. I bought her to drive and enjoy, but that doesn't mean I don't want to risk destoying one of the most important parts of her - an original motor.

Oh well, like I said, it's not easy for me to explain so I'm not sure if this helped you understand my point on this or not. A lot of it really is just emotions over logic at times.

BTW, as I said at the beginning, I don't have any problems with NOM cars depending on the car. In fact, at some point i'd love to buy a NOM car and have it done up as a real hot restro-mod car along the lines of Rich's cars or Bob's car, or Larry's and John's '62's. But since mine is already a fully body-off restored original car I just want to try to retain as much originality thoughout the life of the car as much and as long as possible. Even dropping in a crate motor would be acceptable to me simply because I would know the original motor was still there waiting safe ready to go back in at anytime it needed to.

Barry

PS. Collin, sorry to hijack your thread like this

 

[Rowdy1]

Well Said

I fully understand your point, after all, it is YOUR car and that's what makes this big Ol' ball go round, diversity. So drop that crate in there and start but most of all, enjoy it.

 

[1KULC7]

Well, I guess I owe everyone an update. I am working with Randy "Engines Limited", who has located a really nice Decemeber 62 327 Block. Randy is going to send the engine out next week to be magnaflexed, and tested. He assures me that the engine "looks" really good and will be a perfect RD match to my current engine. So it will be considered a "REPRODUCTION" motor by NCRS and that is what I want. I am going to maintain the engine build EXACTLY to what was in the car when it rolled off the assembly line in 63. So, although tempting, I will have to pass on building this into an FI car. I am very happy to have found somebody who is working with me on this ordeal, and has taken the time to talk to me and understand the heartache and unexpected expense this has put on us. I have decided to go back to the solid lifters that were in the L76 instead of the hydralics, I think the L76 should be EXACTLY like it was...so I guess I will be lashing down again.
The car will be broched, and it will be exactly like the engine coming out. So in the meantime this us given the shop where the car is at, more time to work on the suspension system and get that looking good. I just got a new spring from Eaton which is 100 percent correct, and will have a real nice spring coming out for anybody who needs one....it the replacement spring and was only on the car for a few years,,,really good shape. Also replacing the cooper radiator with a DeWitt Aluminum, again the same time that was on the car in 63 and it will be date coded. I bought one of those cooper radiators from ZIP for $350., and it just did not work out.

Need to replace upper and lower control arms, and few other suspension items, while we are at it, I probably will replace all the bushings. Also going through and looking at the hardware (mainly bolts) and making sure they are correct. I want the bottom of the car to look decent anyhow///

You know a funny thing, I was watch American Hot Rod, the 63 they are building, and I heard Boyd say "This car is fighting us every inch of the way"...Boyd stole this phrase from me, I have been saying the same thing the past two years.

So, I am over the sticker shock, have managed to scrap the money together for a new motor, and its being built, will have it in 8 to 10 weeks, it will be a long block, complete with fuel and water pump, less intake.

Oh yeah on the other side, just orderd a Silverado 2500 DIESEL, loaded, and am ready to put money down on a car trailer a Hallmark 20 foot. So all and all things are working out, just not the way I hoped, but I think for the better.

My ultimate goal is to get the car judged in Boston during the Nationals in 2006. You see, I am from Boston originally, (left in 1975 for Virginia), and I think it would be fitting. I am hoping for 2nd flight....so it give me time to work out even more of the kinks....

Sorry for long post, but as you can see, after a dissamal week, I am only trying to make lemonaid out of those lemons that were tossed at me last week...

Cheers to all...thanks for all the emails from you guys expressing your feeling toward me and especially your encouragement to continue. I do appreciate the emails very much...

 

[Mac]

It'll all work out, Collin. One step at a time. How did you decide on the 20' trailer? Is that gonna be big enough? A couple extra feet for "stuff" is a good idea. Just my thought...

-Mac

 

[Rowdy1]

Hang In There

Sounds like you're going the right way with a good machine shop. Keep us posted as the engine comes together. Good luck with the new truck and I agree with Mac, make sure a 20' is going to fit your needs, how long is the 63 bumper to bumper? Ask a lot of questions at the trailer place about weight distribution, brakes, crossmembers, hold downs etc. Keep posting!

 

[67HEAVEN]

Collin,

To a greater or lesser degree, it seems like many of us go through setbacks on these projects. The determined among us (and I know you're one) refuse to back down from the problems, no matter how frustrating they seem to be at the moment.

The difference between us, discussing these projects online, and those who aren't here to offer feedback???? Well, one difference is many of them gave up and sold their partially completed projects. In fact, eBay is full of them.

When it's all said and done, Collin, you'll look back with a real sense of accomplishment. Then, someday in the not-too-distant future, you'll start thinking about another project.

Best wishes.

 

[c5vetter]

Boston is 2007 - will be there with LADY

 

[Mac]

how long is the 63 bumper to bumper?

175.3 inches... just short of 15 feet, according to the Tech Center.

-Mac

 

[IH2LOSE]

Now that we are speaking about trailers,I used to run a 24' enclosed trailer and used to pull it with a lincoln Navagator,The truck could pull it NO problem but out on the road the trailer had so much mass that the wind would catch it and move me all over.

I now run only an open car trailer,The way I figure the smaller the mass the easeyer it is to pull.

The truck pictured is my 2500hd siverado,Its the biggest gas motor they have,it will tear the tires off the rims,drag 6200lbs of mini back hoe up a hill at 80 mph like there was not even a trailer behind it,But the gas milage is horendous, If I had to do it all again I would have gotton the desiel for sure,

Suspention wise the truck is a beast as you can see I really have the backhoe up far on the trailer and I am not even on the helper springs

My suggestion on a trailer is get the smallest you can to avoid being pushed around on the highway.That deisel will pull a twenty four footer no problem and with the new electric brake controllers stopping is absolutely no concern,its all that extra mass that you may not need.

 

[1KULC7]

Larry...Good choice in trucks. My order for 2500 HD Quad Cab Diesel LT went in today. So wll have to wait to see when its preferenced and then anywhere between 4 to 8 weeks it should arrive.

I looked at the HEMI Ram and Diesel RAMs but just felt the Silverado was built much better and looked a little better, don't like that big quad grill on those RAMS.

Purchased Trailer this week end, bought the 21 foot Haulmark, with spare tire. So I am well on the way to getting it all together...

 

[richscorvettes]

My order for 2500 HD Quad Cab Diesel LT went in today. So wll have to wait to see when its preferenced and then anywhere between 4 to 8 weeks it should arrive.

Collin,

Since your order is in now for the truck it's not too soon to plan for all the mods. :L I have a nice list of things you can do..................

Rich Lagasse

 

[magicv8]

The worst that can happen is much worse than your problem. It is buying a car that had been stolen in a previous life - then having an insurance company take it away from you without compensation. That's the pits,

 

[1KULC7]

OK OK the second worse thing....:L

I am sure there are more like a fire, fatal accident...I think all see the picture, but at the time and place it was the worse thing that happend to me during this restoration.

I got the NCRS Guide, the with Judging Manual and the Ops Manual from NCRS today...already reading and learning....

 

[John Mcgraw]

Collin,

Whatever you do, do not part with the original cylinder block from your Vette.
I would spend a couple of thousand bucks sleeving that block before I put a "restoration" engine in it. My guess is, that you will be disappointed with the end results of the broaching and restamping of the pad on the restorarion engine. It may actually score less points than if you just leave it as is.
If it is a correct corvette engine and all that is wrong is the VIN, then you would get the points for the pad finish and the engine code stamp, and only lose the points for the VIN derivative. With a "restored" pad, you will almost surely lose the points for the whole pad! I have seen a lot of attempts at restamping a pad, and only a couple would have passed muster at a NCRS judging. I think that I would get a second opinion on whether your block can be salvaged. From what you describe, it sounds like it would be able to be saved. I am guessing that it was a .060 overbore, and because of core shift, it just got a little close to the water. A top-notch machinist should be able to sleeve this block and return it to like new condition. Most of the restamps that are done, will only fool a really inexperienced person. Most "broaching" operations are carried out with a belt sander, and can be spotted very easily. There is no substitute for the original engine block if you are going to get the car judged.

Regards, John McGraw

 

[1KULC7]

Collin,

Whatever you do, do not part with the original cylinder block from your Vette.
I would spend a couple of thousand bucks sleeving that block before I put a "restoration" engine in it. My guess is, that you will be disappointed with the end results of the broaching and restamping of the pad on the restorarion engine. It may actually score less points than if you just leave it as is.
If it is a correct corvette engine and all that is wrong is the VIN, then you would get the points for the pad finish and the engine code stamp, and only lose the points for the VIN derivative. With a "restored" pad, you will almost surely lose the points for the whole pad! I have seen a lot of attempts at restamping a pad, and only a couple would have passed muster at a NCRS judging. I think that I would get a second opinion on whether your block can be salvaged. From what you describe, it sounds like it would be able to be saved. I am guessing that it was a .060 overbore, and because of core shift, it just got a little close to the water. A top-notch machinist should be able to sleeve this block and return it to like new condition. Most of the restamps that are done, will only fool a really inexperienced person. Most "broaching" operations are carried out with a belt sander, and can be spotted very easily. There is no substitute for the original engine block if you are going to get the car judged.

Regards, John McGraw

John,

Taking your advise and have crated it up and sent it out to a person who specilizes in this type of repair. I hope to hear from him in the next few weeks. So we will see where this goes....I will keep all updated.

Collin

 

[John Mcgraw]

Collin,

I think you made a wise decision. Every effort should be made to keep the original block. Even if you have to pay an extra thousand bucks or so, it will add several times that to the value of the car if you ever sell it, and If you are having it judged, you will be glad you did.

Regards, John McGraw