Help! Manual Trans Issue

[VAroute66]

Was putting in the drive shaft and when trying to line up, tried and could not turn rear wheel in neutral. Removed shaft. DNE/Richmond 5 speed goes into all gears (checked ratios), but will not go into neutral. Ratio in neutral same as first gear. All linkages go to correct positions in all gears. Everything is new. Anybody ever hear of this? Thanks in advance.

V/R
Dan

 

[Tom Bryant]

Sounds like first isn't disengaging all the way. Try removing the shift rod and select neutral with the first gear shift arm. If that works adjust the shift rod for a slip fit in the arm, shifter also in neutral. If this shifter lines up like a Hurst there should be a hole for a 1/8 drill bit that once inserted will line up all the shifter arms in neutral. Then you adjust the rods so each rod will be a slip fit in the trans arms.

Tom

 

[VAroute66]

Sounds like first isn't disengaging all the way. Try removing the shift rod and select neutral with the first gear shift arm. If that works adjust the shift rod for a slip fit in the arm, shifter also in neutral. If this shifter lines up like a Hurst there should be a hole for a 1/8 drill bit that once inserted will line up all the shifter arms in neutral. Then you adjust the rods so each rod will be a slip fit in the trans arms.

Tom

Tom,
Thanks for responding. It does sound like it is not completely disengaging. Perplexing. Is it possible to have 1st partially engaged and still be able to shift into 2nd? I cannot figure it out. As you recommended, I set up neutral just that way with the shift arms in the correct vertical position. Optimized rod lengths accordingly. I then shifted into first, which will also set 3rd and 5th and set throw. Did same to set 2nd 4th and reverse leaving a little play for a good shift. I actually used a 1/8 in. drill bit. Shifted glitchy stationary as I had to rotate the shaft to get it into all gears. But shifted well and fully engaged when aligned. To be honest do not ever remember independent movement of input and output shafts even outside the car. Could never imagine anything like this. Had this trans since 1986 and never used. Richmond gear said that synchronizer may be stuck to gear cone keeping 1st engaged while allowing engagement of 2nd and all other gears. Also said never heard anything like this before. If thats the case, how would I free the synchronizer without breaking it? Should I start the car in 1st with the clutch engaged and let it out and hope it breaks free or should I start in fake neutral and shift into 1st. Thanks again for your thoughts.

V/R
Dan

 

[Tom Bryant]

Things can get sticky when left set that long. Have you tried to go from first to neutral with the engine running? My worst fear would be to let out the clutch with the trans in 2 gears at once, even if just on the edge of the gear.

With the engine running I'd first try shifting in back and forth from first to second with the clutch disengaged. Then let the clutch out in first, then do it again in second while feeling for any binding to start. Try for neutral letting out the clutch. If anything doesn't feel right then disengage the clutch again. If still no luck and you are certain that the other gears are in neutral I'd start it in first and drive along slow and gentle to get everything well lubed again. Or run it with the rear wheels off of the ground. Then disengage the clutch several times while moving leaving it in first. Try second the same way. Then when you feel lucky put it in neutral and let out the clutch slowly to see if it has freed up. Getting a little heat and lube moving through it may do the trick.

I wouldn't think that a stuck syncro (from sitting) would require disassembly but that may be the case. I'm not a trans guru but this is what I'd try before taking it back out and tearing into it.

Tom

 

[Hib Halverson]

If the trans sat for almost 30 years before being used and you cannot disengage the gears (ie: shift to neutral), I'd pull the gear box then disassemble, inspect the internals looking for stuck and/or corroded parts, then clean parts as necessary. After that I'd prelube bearings and bushings with gear lube and reassemble. Fill the trans with lube then road test.

 

[VAroute66]

Tom,

Thanks, what you say makes sense. If a synchro ring is stuck, it would be best to try to free it disengaging the clutch and carefully engaging when in neutral. I am going to do as you recommend and will post result. For the life of me can't figure out how 1st gear could be partially engaged in neutral. The synchro ring is grounded to the sleeve as far as I can tell. You can't have two gears engaged at the same time and get output, which means that somehow first gear is partially engaged in neutral. Thanks for your help.

V/R
Dan

 

[VAroute66]

If the trans sat for almost 30 years before being used and you cannot disengage the gears (ie: shift to neutral), I'd pull the gear box then disassemble, inspect the internals looking for stuck and/or corroded parts, then clean parts as necessary. After that I'd prelube bearings and bushings with gear lube and reassemble. Fill the trans with lube then road test.

Hib,

I should have done this before installing, but its in the car now, and I have to remove the engine to get to the trans. Want to avoid if at all possible. Hope to free it up through careful use. Thanks.

v/R
Dan

 

[VAroute66]

Tom,

Thanks. Got the engine running and put the rear on jack stands. Followed your proposed procedure and whatever it was seems to have worked its way out. Ran the car in each gear for a few minutes to circulate oil and do no load wear in. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Tom Bryant]

That's good news. Glad it worked out for you.

Tom