Marriage of Body & Frame

[clint4vette]

My appologies for an obvious redundant question. I searched the archives for the answer first, and was unable to located the information in a previous post, though I'm sure it is there in part at least.
The frame and drivetrain are built. The Body along with fire wall components are attached........ We are ready to lower the body onto the frame after a two year separation / revitilization.
1964 Convertable Fuelie
I numbered the bags of shims as I removed them from the car two years ago, but today am uncertain which was #1, front or rear. It was a good idea but bad execution.
With that said, I am starting from scratch. I have all new attaching bolts, shims and original style rubber grommets.
The radiator support shims are welded in. I have an overhead chain fall, a body lift strap with 4 lift points and a support team of 6 good sized people to help in the uniting of body and frame.

I see that the dirrections state to tape the shims in place and lower the body. Now with the amount of shimming for each mount point in question, How Do I Proceed?
Could someone give me a good step by step for properly shimming the body?

 

[BarryK]

This information comes from the April, 2000 issue of Corvette Fever in the Resto Clinic section authored by Noland Adams. The question that was answered by this info was from a gentleman that had purchased a '66 convertible. At the time of purchase, the body had been
removed from the frame and the frame had been blasted and painted, any frame marks at the mounting points had not been noted and the shim counts had not been noted as well. In paraphrase form, here's the information about properly mounting and shimming the body.

There was a gauge used at the St. Louis assembly plant to measure variations in the frame. Color coded stripes were placed near each body mount to help figure out the final shim count for each body mount. These stripes were only a starting guideline. Due to inaccuracies in the gauge or variations in the body, shims were often added or subtracted as required. The gentleman with the above mentioned '66 simply lost his starting point.

The first thing to do is to identify the body mount locations. '64 and
later convertibles have 10 body mounts, five per side. Coupes have four on each side, but the procedures are the same.

The front body mount (#1) is between the radiator support and the frame. The shims are welded in place at the factory and rarely need to be modified.

The second body mount (#2) is under the ends of the windshield. You reach this mount from under the hood - the left one is under the brake master cylinder, but a little more towards the rear and out side of the car.

The third mount (#3) is only for '64 to '75 convertibles and it's located
under the sill plate.

The fourth mount (#4) is in the rear corner of the passenger compartment, hidden behind a metal rectangular cover in front of the rear tire.

The last mount (#5) is in the rear of the body and is the last mount to be shimmed and adjusted.

To mount the body to the frame, we are concerned with the adjustments to six body mounts. They are #2 left and right, #3 left and right and #4 left and right. Start with a minimum number of shims, which is either three or four at each mount. Hold them in place with masking tape and align them for the mounting holes. Lower the body onto the frame.

Install the body mount bolts, washers, shims, nuts, etc. on the six body
mounts that surround the passenger compartment - left and right sides #2, #3 and #4. Correct placement for parts is shown in the Assembly Instruction Manual (AIM). AIM shows rough drawing and part numbers, but most body mount kits come with an instruction sheet.

Tighten the six body mount bolts to firm, just a little more than finger
tight. Look closely at the shims at each of the six locations. The weight of the body should hold each stack of shims solidly in place. If any of the shims have spaces, remove the bolts and add shims as required. Replace the bolts and again firmly tighten all six bolts.

The bolts are slowly tightened until two things happen: the six bolts are evenly adjusted, but are all quite tight, and there are no gaps between the shims. These are the ideal body mounting conditions for the mounts around the passenger compartment.

The doors are installed next. Each door hinge has six bolts and there are a number of shims at each hinge, varying from none to six. Getting the doors adjusted can be rather difficult. There are two vertical gaps, one at the front of the door and one at the rear. The goal is to get both door gaps even. The front door gap is changed by adjusting the shims on the front mounts, #1 right and left, under the radiator support. Adding shims to mount #1 closes the front door gap at the top.

Each corner of the body is adjusted with more or fewer shims under the four corner body mounts. These are #1 left and right and #5 left and right. If the doors adjust properly, you're done. Some body work may be required for a perfect fit and you may have to adjust the doors a few more times.

If the body has to come off again for paint, the shims are already in place. You still need to adjust the doors after the body is placed back on the frame. Expect this whole procedure to take quite a bit of time.

Again, credit for this procedure should be given to Noland Adams.

 

[clint4vette]

Thanks Barry,
Is the #2 mount (under hinge pillar) a fixed position?
I've read some other posts but of later years that the mount under the pillar has no shims and hence is a reference point on which to start. Does this same theory apply to a 64 Roadster?

 

[61 Silver]

Hi!

Are you planning on shimming new or starting with the original shim count that was on the frame prior to body removal. I have just completed (almost complete) my third body off restoration. It is much easier to work from the original shim count and then add and remove shims to achieve correct body gaps.

The 63 that I am now working on required a new frame and I had no reference points to work from. The frame manufacturer recommend that equal shims be spaced on all mounts and then add and remove until desired body hight and gaps are achieved. Left mount # 2 ended up with no shims.

On the 63 there were no rubber cushions to soften the ride. I believe that the 64 was the first year for this application.

If I can be of further help, just ask!

Ray

I used plumb lines to locate mounting holes prior to body drop and you can see where the shims are taped to the frame mounts.

 

[studiog]

Wow. Nice job, the car looks great.

 

[clint4vette]

Excitement is mounting - A little pun intended

I am amassing enough eyes and hands for the Saturday noon blessing of Body to Frame for a smooth transaction. Weatherman is calling for 75 and sunny in Eastern North Carolina. My biggest fear was the up and down of the body to add or take away shims for the correct fit. I think that worry has subsided. I'll have enough burgers and dogs on the grill to feed an army. That has helped draw several friends from their Saturday honey-do lists to assist (I'm sure the libation after the job had nothing to do with their committment). And when the last bolt is tight and the wrenches are laid to rest, I have Grey Goose and Crown for the guests. At that point they are no longer working/assisting but enjoying the sight of 2 years labor.
Ray, I'm starting with a new mounting kit w/ rubber cushions. I lost my reference point and will be starting from scratch. After Berry's nice set of dirrections from Noland Adams (and the one question I had lingering) I called Noland. He was paitient enough to walk me through the process of creating new reference point to start at. Very simple realy. I think it's my nature to complicate things mentaly first though. Anyway,,,,,, Noland said to install the whole kit with the shims provided as it came. Set the body down and from that point, snug it down and look for loose shims. Since all the shims were used, take away from the tight mount/mounts first (unless they are all the same tightness). Retighten and check again. Apply the removed shims on the loose mount (if one exists). Do this until the same tension exists on all the mounts when snugged down. I forgot to mention, this was to happen to the mounts at the firewall, middle of the sill plate and at the control arm mounting area. once that square area is properly aligned, move to the rear monts and adjust for door gap. Do the same at the radiator support for hood & door gap. Thanks Berry & Ray ! I'll take my time and get it right!

 

[BlackNBlue95]

That is a beautiful car you have there Clint!
-=Rick

 

[firstgear]

I know I am sick....but I get a woodie looking at these body lifts and drops....

 

[67HEAVEN]

I know I am sick....but I get a woodie looking at these body lifts and drops....

No........that makes you normal around here. otfl

 

[impala]

If you have not already done so you might want to install your ignition shielding and sparkplug wire shielding prior to the body drop. It's a whole lot easier to install now.

Eugene

 

[clint4vette]

If you have not already done so you might want to install your ignition shielding and sparkplug wire shielding prior to the body drop. It's a whole lot easier to install now.

Eugene

Thanks for the heads up. I wasn't sure about that. I put the shielding on today.
I have the Brake Booster, Wiper motor, Heater assm and surge tank in. I will bolt up the support in the body and put the steer column bracket on the firewall. The parking brake cable is mounted to the firewall. Both right and lrft engine compartment wire harnesses are in and the head light buckets, motors and wiring.

 

[TorchZ]

Very nice...almost there. By the way, that is a nice body dolly you have...is that the one from Noland Adams or did you fabricate that yourself? Looks pretty secure.

 

[clint4vette]

Necessity is the Mother of Invention

Very nice...almost there. By the way, that is a nice body dolly you have...is that the one from Noland Adams or did you fabricate that yourself? Looks pretty secure.

This is a home design / built jig. I put pads on the 4 telescoping corners to reach into the wheelhouse for front and rear stability with doors off.
It's made of 2" steel tubing and 1/4" plate with steel/rubber casters with zerk fittings. It is durable enough for transportation of the body. Cost of raw materials $250. and a serious favor from a certified welder friend. Here, have a closer look.

 

[67HEAVEN]

Nicely done, Clint.

 

[clint4vette]

I ran out of Memory ?

Heaven, I ran out of space with that last posted picture. By the amount of hits this topic is getting, I'd like to post pictures through the whole install to completion. How does one aquire more space?

 

[67HEAVEN]

Heaven, I ran out of space with that last posted picture. By the amount of hits this topic is getting, I'd like to post pictures through the whole install to completion. How does one aquire more space?

www.tinypic.com

 

[clint4vette]

The two are One!

Wow, what a project.
A lot of the worrys I had went out the window. And were replaced quickly with new ones.
I should add that if you change any component that touches the frame, your back to square one also. I put in a Rad Support I got from VNV and that in its self, changed the course of the day.
I had factory welded support shims on the frame that needed to come out. After an hour of shimming it was determined we couldn't get there from here,,,,, and had to chissel out the welded shims. After that it was smooth sailing.
I ended up installing what came with the kit on mounts #1 under the firewall and #2 under the sill plate and #3 just in front of the rear wheel. This was easily accomodated by means of a LONG hard wood stick as a pry. One of my original concerns was not being able to touch the shims. That turned out not to be a problem. The body is easily lifted by means of the pry bar to allow just enough relief to insert or remove a shim (this being after the body is sitting on the frame). I could see that I had ample room to shim the mount way to the rear and also the radiator support for up and down door gap adjustment. I first focused on #1 and #3. Then went back and added to #2 until it matched in weight bearing. I snugged them down and found I needed to remove from #2 slightly due to compression of the rubber in #3. Now I moved to the rear and shimmed for door rear door gap.
Then moved to the front and did the same for front door gap.

Lessons learned;
If changing to different frame or saddle. Remove welded in shims first.
Do Not install mufflers before installing body. they hit the quarters.
The more eyes, the better.

It was a great expierience and went smooth. This was a manual instalation. Physical lifting vs. mechanical. 3 on one side and 3 on the other. 2 floaters, one in front and one in back watching and aligning. We lifted it off the dolly and onto the frame in 2 minutes.
Anyone wanting pictures of the lifting and setting down can email me and I'll forward them. I ran out of memory on the forum posting pictures to this post. Sunday was spent finishing the plumbing. She holds water!

Having it together now and in ONE stall, I can't get over how small the Midyear is.

 

[JohnZ]

Do Not install mufflers before installing body. they hit the quarters.

At St. Louis, we used a toggled "come-along" fixture stuck in the tailpipes that pulled the mufflers inboard about 3" on each side at body drop so the quarters would clear the mufflers during the drop; you can see the fixture in place if you look closely at the body drop photos on page 318 in Noland's book.

 

[studiog]

Wow, what a project.
A lot of the worrys I had went out the window. And were replaced quickly with new ones.
I should add that if you change any component that touches the frame, your back to square one also. I put in a Rad Support I got from VNV and that in its self, changed the course of the day.
I had factory welded support shims on the frame that needed to come out. After an hour of shimming it was determined we couldn't get there from here,,,,, and had to chissel out the welded shims. After that it was smooth sailing.
I ended up installing what came with the kit on mounts #1 under the firewall and #2 under the sill plate and #3 just in front of the rear wheel. This was easily accomodated by means of a LONG hard wood stick as a pry. One of my original concerns was not being able to touch the shims. That turned out not to be a problem. The body is easily lifted by means of the pry bar to allow just enough relief to insert or remove a shim (this being after the body is sitting on the frame). I could see that I had ample room to shim the mount way to the rear and also the radiator support for up and down door gap adjustment. I first focused on #1 and #3. Then went back and added to #2 until it matched in weight bearing. I snugged them down and found I needed to remove from #2 slightly due to compression of the rubber in #3. Now I moved to the rear and shimmed for door rear door gap.
Then moved to the front and did the same for front door gap.

Lessons learned;
If changing to different frame or saddle. Remove welded in shims first.
Do Not install mufflers before installing body. they hit the quarters.
The more eyes, the better.

It was a great expierience and went smooth. This was a manual instalation. Physical lifting vs. mechanical. 3 on one side and 3 on the other. 2 floaters, one in front and one in back watching and aligning. We lifted it off the dolly and onto the frame in 2 minutes.
Anyone wanting pictures of the lifting and setting down can email me and I'll forward them. I ran out of memory on the forum posting pictures to this post. Sunday was spent finishing the plumbing. She holds water!

Having it together now and in ONE stall, I can't get over how small the Midyear is.

Congrats on the body drop! Very excitinhg. Can't wait to see pics.