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misleading badging

Z

ZR100060

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Porsche has the right idea about badging actually meaning something. In addition to my Z06 I have a Boxster S. The "S" is basically a package that adds 50 horsepower and costs a lot more than the standard Boxster. That is why I bought the "S" model, the badging means something. Corvette should be an exclusive sports car, even if it meant more money. I recall when you could but a Corvette with 160 horsepower..that was a disgrace. The Z06 should be a 500 horsepower one -of -a kind sports car, not a slightly warmed over C5.
My two cents
 
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How much would you be willing to pay for that extra 100 ponies?

One of the Vettes claims to fame was always being close to half the price of european sports cars, for 50Gs you could outrun any Beelte looking 911 and deal with the plastic squeaking interior.
 

Edmond

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ZR100060 said:
Porsche has the right idea about badging actually meaning something. In addition to my Z06 I have a Boxster S. The "S" is basically a package that adds 50 horsepower and costs a lot more than the standard Boxster. That is why I bought the "S" model, the badging means something. Corvette should be an exclusive sports car, even if it meant more money. I recall when you could but a Corvette with 160 horsepower..that was a disgrace. The Z06 should be a 500 horsepower one -of -a kind sports car, not a slightly warmed over C5.
My two cents

ZR,

I think that GM kind of rushed the 2001 Z06 and really intended for it to be more like the 2002 Z06 with the numbers that it's posting. People are always noting how much of a difference there is between the two cars and almost everyone says that the Z06 is much much quicker and more of a beast than the C5.
 
Z

ZR100060

Guest
I also think GM may have rushed into the Z06 concept. I traded a ZR1 for the Z06. The Z06 should have been the sequel to the ZR1, the second "King of the Hill". Its not that much faster than the ZR1, if it is faster. The damn Mustang can be had with 390 HP and would give the Z06 a good race. Granted, my Z06 is a better all around car, in my opinion, than the ZR1, but not by much.
I would pay an additional 12-15,000 more than the Z06 prices, if the price justified the finished product. Even at that price you could truly say your Corvette was "world" class, and still be way, way under the asking price of the dual turbo Porsche.
 

69MyWay

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I would think for the extra $12-$15K you could easily get a state of the art super charger and intercooler on that Z06 that would make it a King of the Hill Killer. Then you could have some real fun and get some custom chrome super charged badges made up to go right under the Z06 emblems.

That would be sweeeeeeeeeet.
 

danl72

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ZR100060 said:
The damn Mustang can be had with 390 HP and would give the Z06 a good race. Granted, my Z06 is a better all around car, in my opinion, than the ZR1, but not by much.
I would pay an additional 12-15,000 more than the Z06 prices, if the price justified the finished product. Even at that price you could truly say your Corvette was "world" class, and still be way, way under the asking price of the dual turbo Porsche.
The Mustang is supercharged to get the 390 hp. Put a supercharger on your Z06 and you will be looking at around 550-600 hp, then go and race the mustang and leave them in your dust.
 

Edmond

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ZR100060 said:
I also think GM may have rushed into the Z06 concept. I traded a ZR1 for the Z06. The Z06 should have been the sequel to the ZR1, the second "King of the Hill". Its not that much faster than the ZR1, if it is faster. The damn Mustang can be had with 390 HP and would give the Z06 a good race. Granted, my Z06 is a better all around car, in my opinion, than the ZR1, but not by much.
I would pay an additional 12-15,000 more than the Z06 prices, if the price justified the finished product. Even at that price you could truly say your Corvette was "world" class, and still be way, way under the asking price of the dual turbo Porsche.

Actually, there was an article in Car and Driver a couple of months ago where they supercharged a C5 coupe. They also talked about supercharging a Z06. I don't have the article handy, but I will post some numbers if I can find it. The supercharging was done by Lingenfelter (like that's a surprise to anyone!). It cost just under $9,000. They put on a new hood that's painted to match because of the extra clearance needed. That price got you the parts and labor to install. They also included dyno sheets to prove it!
 
V

vettepilot

Guest
I can't figure out your thinking.... "S" on a Porsche with 50 additional HP is OK, but the ZO6 badge with the LS6 (which is NOT just a tuned LS1) sporting 55 more HP, an upgraded suspension, tires, wheels, Ti exhaust, special gearing in the tranmission, shot peened ring gear, upgraded clutch, is misleading? Oh yeah, BTW, all for LESS than a loaded Corvette convertible. Granted I am judging by the 2002 ZO6, not the 01. The 01 is no slouch... it is clearly a step higher performance wise over the Coupe and Vert. That's a pretty tall order to improve over the already very fast Coupe and Vert. while keeping within the EPA boundries. IMHO, the ZO6 is not just a warmed over C5.
Regarding the LT5 VS the LS6 engines, the LT5 was a very complicated engine, the LS6 is a simple pushrod technology engine, making a very strong 405 HP and 400 lbs ft torque. The LT5 never achieved that combination of numbers from the factory.
The LT5 ZR-1 is still faster at the top end mainly because of the additional RPM advantage the DOHC brings to the plate, however the LS6 is a much lighter engine in a much lighter car, so the weight distribution and WT/HP ratio is better than the ZR-1 had.
The 93 - 95 ZR-1 had a wt:hp ratio of approx 8.6:1, the ZO6 is approx. 7.6:1. The LS series engine is still evolving, nobody outside of GM and it's subcontractors know for sure what's coming down the road, but I'm sure we won't be dissapointed. The HP war is still alive and well, the Corvette is not a direct competitor with the Mustang, but for some reason people just have to try to compare them. Better comparisons with the Vette family would be Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus, BMW Z3 and Z8, Dodge Viper etc. I know that's some pretty exclusive company, but the Corvette has evolved to stand the test.
vettepilot
 

Edmond

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2003 Z06
pilot,

I definitely agree with you when you say that the Corvette and Mustang aren't competitors. I just read today that the 390 HP supercharged Mustang takes a full 4.5 seconds to reach 60. The Z06 is a half second faster. Then there's the price difference, which is where I somewhat disagree with you. I don't think comparing the Corvette with a Ferrari or even a Viper is quite fair. But I'm only saying that on the basis that the cost between the cars is such a big difference.

I mean, we could go on and on about this. People will bring up interiors, etc...

Bottom line is, a Corvette is a Corvette and no car will be in the same class as it, whether that class is higher or lower.
 

danl72

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BullWinkle said:
pilot,
Bottom line is, a Corvette is a Corvette and no car will be in the same class as it, whether that class is higher or lower.
Well said.:)
 
L

Ling_650vette

Guest
ya know it's funny, you talk to most Mustang guys, and they act like this new Cobra is going to be a all out 'vette killer. Wasn't that the Cobra R's job? And if it was, it did a pretty poor job, imo. Considering (so i've heard) the Cobra R's put out almost 405rwhp ( yeah right, what is this the late 60's again w/ de-tuning #'s for insurance purposes?) and only "lost" to the ZO6 b/c of driver abilities. Ok, with that said, if the ZO6 is just a "warmed up C5" how does it beat a good amount of 80k+ cars, for about 1/2 the price? I mean, you could find a used ZO6 for around 45k....double that price, and you've got about the base pricing for some of Porsche and Ferrari's vehicles.

Personally, the ZO6 is by far, the best all around sports car. (notice personally, we all are a lil biased, or we wouldn't be in a Corvette forum). But to say that the ZO6 is just a warmed up C5 is kinda an understatement. With more power on tap, and less weight, tweeked suspension, as well as a skilled driver behind the wheel, you've got one serious threat. Personally, it sounds like the Porsche S is more of a "tuned" Boxter then the ZO6 is a "tuned" C5. I'm not tryin to sound like an ass, but it sounds like the car didn't meet your expetations of what it should have been....while to some, it was the missing link to a Corvette heritage thats been linked w/ ass kicking performance. If i could, i would run out and lay a fat payment for a ZO6, drive out the door, and start savin up for mods (is this a perfect world? no, i'm not married to Heidi Klum.....yet ;) ) But, thats just me....this car hasn't disappointed me yet, but i dont own it either.

This is just my .02....take it however you may
 
V

vettepilot

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Ling 650,
Well stated, I totaly agree with your thoughts. The Corvette Coupe and Convertible have evolved into a couple of well respected world class cars in their own right. There still seems to be a cult of Corvette bashers still waiting in the corners trying their darndest to trash the Vette based on the early C4 problems. In fact I was talking with guy that was still bashing the digital instrumentation, (from the C4). So that tells me he hasn't haven't even been inside a C5 yet!
The ZO6 brought the Corvette performance to another level, one that directly competes with some of the most respected marques in the world. True that those "supercars" will out run a Corvette at the top end, for three times the price or more.. they ought to. But handling, braking, and acceleration is so close that the ZO6 does in fact out perform those cars in some categories. But for the most bang for the buck (as many automotive magazines already stated) the Corvette line-up is truly a bargin. I have a 2002 ZO6, and yes the performance is above the factory Coupe and Vert. However, let's not kid ourselves, those LS1 engines can be modded to outrun the ZO6.
When it comes to the mod game, money makes HP. But if one is talking pure factory stock performance, then the ZO6 cannot be denied it's place.
vettepilot
 
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It never amazes me how some people judge cars, like the Mustang crowd, the Vette is an established world class performer with numbers that outclass any car in or near its price range, but what about the entire driving experiance? After driving so many cars over the years, I will always remember the cheap feel of the switches and dash, the sloppy feeling stick and tranny , the cost cutting touches like the 4 lug nut wheels and i can go on. Only a small part of the ride is at WOT and max Gs in turns. The Vette is a much more quiality built car and a better package, but its apples and oranges.

As for the German performance cars, I still dont like the sytling of the Boxter,or the 911 variations, and quite frankly I was never thrilled by cars built by Germans (except of course when I worked in a repair shop, and it was like Christmas every time on got pushed in)
 
Z

ZR100060

Guest
I may have offended some people in my posting that may have seemed critical of the Z06. That was not my intention. I sincerely believe my Z is the best freeway car I have ever driven. I am 58 years old and for 15+ years I was in the car business. I have driven just about every "desirable" car ever made, except the Yugo Sport 3 cylinder. My all time favorite was my first Corvette, a 1975 model I put a crate motor in. That car ingrained in me the deep rooted belief that today is known as the Corvette mystique.There is no substitute for a Corvette.

Each auto I have kept for any length of time had a "personalty". Its the personality I love. I have collected and rebuilt many cars in my time, and will continue to do so. I believe my Z06 has a certain arrogance that I find appealing. My Corvette will not out-handle my Boxter S, nor will it keep up with my Pantera from 20-100 mph. But if I want to make a "statement" that I am driving the best America has to offer I drive my Z06.
Regards to all

Larry
 

Edmond

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2003 Z06
Hey Larry,

If you're so unhappy with your Z06, get rid of it! I can make a spot for it in my garage in about 20 seconds!:D

No, I don't think you've offended anyone here. But you do have an awesome car and I would definitely drool over it in a parking lot.
 
Z

ZR100060

Guest
Thanks Edmund. The Z06 is new to me . I've only had the opportunity to drive it 500 miles, mostly in freeway traffic so I have no real time idea of what I have.
Thanks to all for your comments.

PS:
I made a believer out of Mustang Cobra today, so I got my first horsey. So little time; so many Mustangs!
 

Edmond

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2003 Z06
ZR100060 said:
Thanks Edmund. The Z06 is new to me . I've only had the opportunity to drive it 500 miles, mostly in freeway traffic so I have no real time idea of what I have.
Thanks to all for your comments.

PS:
I made a believer out of Mustang Cobra today, so I got my first horsey. So little time; so many Mustangs!

I wonder what he was thinking...:r
 
V

vettepilot

Guest
I swear they must be hiding in the trunk! You can be driving along minding your own business, then all of a sudden there it is... dodging and weaving in the rearview mirror... then they have to pull up next to the drivers window, throw in a downshift, then get on it. Of course a challenge like that must be answered...
We'll have to figure out how to play Amazing Grace on the Ti Pipes for all the kills.
vettepilot
 
D

DkBG

Guest
And one other thing ! When talking about the difference between the ZR1 and the ZO6 , you need to consider the price difference of each over the stock Vette . The ZO6 is a steal !
 
L

Ling_650vette

Guest
ZR100060, i wasn't trying to bash you or anything, but @ first, it came across like you were just saying the ZO6 is nothing more than a warmed over C5 while your Boxter S is the cream of the crop. Guess i may have jumped the gun, but hey, i dont like hearing people say a Porsche is better ;)

And yeah vettepilot, i agree w/ you that there are PLENTY of corvette bashers out there that really have no idea what they're talking about. I get people all the time, when i start talking about Corvettes say they wouldn't get into a plastic POS, esp if it's american. (these guys are also the typical "ricers" w/ the MkIV Supra being their dream car, watched Slow and Harmless too many times) That always throws me for a loop, considering a few of these guys, fathers have older 'vettes lol. And i kinda like the digital gauges.....looks sweet w/ the lights a lil dim, and it's late. lol.

again ZR, not wanting to bash you or anything....but, i guess i jumped the gun. Ever since the 01 ZO6 came out, i was amazed, and now that they upgrade it for 02, thats even more amazing....sad to think that they could do away w/ the pushrod v8 though in the C6...but, looks like we'll have to wait and see.
 

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