Need Cam + Heads Advice

[69vettester]

I am a newbie so I don't really know all of the jargon yet as far as engine talk goes. Here is what I want to do:
I have a '79 L-82 that I have pulled. So far it has only been cleaned and checked by the machine shop. The shop recommends .020 over bore based upon what they saw. I would like to rebuild it as cheap as possible but with a little more pep than stock. I've heard that the stock #624 heads are junk so I was thinking of Vortecs or the Dart Iron Eagles. What Cam and/or Heads do you guys recommend as a combo that will achieve this. I want it to be 100% streetable without a lumpy idle---but fairly quick at the same time.....
I am open to suggestions...thanks

Because your wanting Mild street performance,
I think youll have great results going with GMPP Iron L31 Vortec heads. They are a perfect inexpensive upgrade over stock. They'll take cams that have up to .450 max lift.If you want to use a higher lifting cam than that , youll need to be shopping for one of the others like Dart mild performance heads or Edelbrocks ect. Theres alot of vortec intakes available now, GMPP has a great vortec intake but its a hi-rise for the 375HP to 450HP, higher flowing aluminum and iron vortec heads and wont fit under your hood anyway. They have a lowrise manifold too, but its priced high compared with the Edel. performer air gap vortec intake. Its a Lowrise and would Probably be ideal with those mild GMPP vortec heads, I would think.

Whatever cam you get, It needs to have no more than .450 max lift to work with this GMPP vortec head. Comp, Crane, and edelbrock all make ideal dual pattern cams in your range, that is: duration@.050 206/212 , lift 435/445, rpm range 800-4600.

Scoggin Dickey's website is a good place to shop and get familiar with engine combos.
Summit racing is too and Pace and Sallee.
You can become an engine combo pro browsing these sights,
Good luck, Post pics if possible...

 

[Rob79er]

My machine shop was showing me his Sealed Power catalog that has Engine Kits available based upon the amount of HP + Torque that you want. It includes everythng needed for a rebuild (hyperutectic pistons) all bearings, chain ,oil pump- also including the cam and lifters. For example, the Sealed Power HPK102 kit will produce 328 HP and give 9:7 compression (with a certain carb and Performer Intake). I think this Kit goes for about $600. What do you guys think of these "take the guesswork out" kits?
I am leaning towards the Vortec heads- $500--BTW- my machine shop says that they have a template that they can use to drill out so that my stock Intake will fit on the Vortec heads. Since I also want to keep my L-82 Valave Covers they also know of some adapter ??? that will let me run these valve covers on top of the Vortecs as well..So this is a ballpark of my budget rebuild:

$80- Cost to clean, hone block , remove Cam bearings and freeze plugs
$80- $10/hole to bore
$250- to Install and Re-assemble all parts including heads ( I may do this myself though)
$600- Engine Kit w/ Cam- 328HP on Dyno Stand
$500- Vortec heads
-----------------------
$1510.00

No align honing, balancing or decking figured in.

 

[69vettester]

My machine shop was showing me his Sealed Power catalog that has Engine Kits available based upon the amount of HP + Torque that you want. It includes everythng needed for a rebuild (hyperutectic pistons) all bearings, chain ,oil pump- also including the cam and lifters. For example, the Sealed Power HPK102 kit will produce 328 HP and give 9:7 compression (with a certain carb and Performer Intake). I think this Kit goes for about $600. What do you guys think of these "take the guesswork out" kits?
I am leaning towards the Vortec heads- $500--BTW- my machine shop says that they have a template that they can use to drill out so that my stock Intake will fit on the Vortec heads. Since I also want to keep my L-82 Valave Covers they also know of some adapter ??? that will let me run these valve covers on top of the Vortecs as well..So this is a ballpark of my budget rebuild:

$80- Cost to clean, hone block , remove Cam bearings and freeze plugs
$80- $10/hole to bore
$250- to Install and Re-assemble all parts including heads ( I may do this myself though)
$600- Engine Kit w/ Cam- 328HP on Dyno Stand
$500- Vortec heads
-----------------------
$1510.00

No align honing, balancing or decking figured in.

Sounds pretty good, send me their number..ha.
It really does, except the drilling the intake to fit vortec heads. Thats generally considered not the way to do it. Vortec intakes are near 100% leakproof by design , thats whats great about it, you dont get that by altering the conventional to fit.
Wow what a good deal to get your engine shaped up, Are these guys proven, can you rely on them?

Here's the link to those GMPP vortecs at Scoggin Dickey..

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3129/products/140/Cast-Iron-L31-Vortec-SB-Chevrolet-Cylinder-Heads-Assembled.htm

 

[maxrevs85]

I think the seal power kit would be a good deal. I question the machining though.The line hone and balancing is worth every penny. One of the things that happens after awhile with cast iron, the block is that the metal shifts around. By line honing you get the block square again and the boring and decking with be square with the main journals. Dont skimp there to save money. And as far as assembly , if you are skilled in that area , go ahead and do it your self. Its not just putting it together . There are specific does and dont's . I find the biggest problem with that people think they will save a bunch of money by doing it themselves . First its usually only about $350 to $400 for assembly and its worth it. The have all the tools and experience and if its not right they cant blame you. I have built many engines in my life . But all the performance engines I have left up to the pros.
Dave

 

[curtis]

You can't go wrong for the money with the vortecs. I use them and a comp XE262 cam with the stock springs. Never had any problems. Super vacuum at idle and neck snapping torque. Performer intake and 600 cfm performer carb. You will need headers and a dual exhaust to get all this combo offers. Give your shop the cam and hypereutectic pistons and have them return you the rebuilt short block. Your stock rods and crank will handle the power (about 380 hp and 430 ft/lb torque).You can bolt on everything else.

 

[Bill75]

Vortec Heads

This is a real interesting thread, but I don't understand something about the cast iron Vortec heads. I have an article from Chevy High Performance mag, 10/15/04 that talks about building an engine using Vortecs. It says that they were used on pickups and had a "specially hardened exhaust seat that kills low and mid-lift flow. Casting number 10239906 should be avoided".
The link to Scoggin Dickeys site shows cast iron Vortecs that Curtis provided and if you look at GM Parts Depot under that p/n you'll see that the casting number is the same one this article says to avoid. BUT......you guys seem to have no problems with them. So am I reading this wrong, help me out.

Thanks.........Bill

What the heck am I thinking , here's the link. It's good reading.
http://chevyhiperformance.com/howto/97458/

 

[Glensgages]

You can't go wrong for the money with the vortecs. I use them and a comp XE262 cam with the stock springs. Never had any problems. Super vacuum at idle and neck snapping torque.

curtis:

I've been reading on 'another' Forum that several Corvette-owners are complaining about the EX-line of CompCams ' wiping-out lobes on freshly-assembled engines:
2 buddies, who build drag and circle-track motors haven't had any problems with them.....

While I'm not-sure about the Vortec-heads, I'd consider the XE262 cam if/when I take the Cross-Fire Injection induction off my '82 in the future.

What is YOUR take on this subject?
:confused

 

[WayneLBurnham]

Bill75 - that's an excellent chart, THANX!!!

ntxt

 

[goingballistic]

If you can buy a crate for 3K, go fo it.

A word of advice, if you have never assembled a short block on your own and have no idea what you are getting into, let the shop do it for you, it's the best $250 you will ever spend. You can certainly assemble the top fairly easily but don't try the crank, cam and rods if you've never done it. At least work with someone who HAS done it so they can give you some guidance. It's an expensive thing to screw up !! If you decide to stroke it there are a lot of clearancing "things" that need to be done to the block for the rotating assembly, I am assuming you are not going to do that ($$$$).

I just bought a set of AFR 195 heads = $1394 delivered

To date, in parts, build, assembly for a 388 ( zero deck and 60 over bore) = $6500. This is being done from the ground up, started with an old block from a 74 Nova, hoping to be on the dyno at the end of July with the motor prior to install in August.

Good luck.

 

[Jack]

For example, the Sealed Power HPK102 kit will produce 328 HP and give 9:7 compression (with a certain carb and Performer Intake). I think this Kit goes for about $600. What do you guys think of these "take the guesswork out" kits?

I am leaning towards the Vortec heads- $500--BTW- my machine shop says that they have a template that they can use to drill out so that my stock Intake will fit on the Vortec heads. Since I also want to keep my L-82 Valave Covers they also know of some adapter ??? that will let me run these valve covers on top of the Vortecs as well.

I think the Sealed-Power/Speed-Pro (same company) kits are a good idea. The HPK102 kit is a good choice ... but it has H100 pistons ... most if not all S-P 1xx series pistons are lightweight, more expensive (not really needed here) and use narrow (and more expensive) 1/16,1/16, 3/16 ringpaks ... again narrow ringpaks not really needed here. Have your guy look up a S-P kit # MHP-146 ... it has all the same stuff that the other kit has but with H631 pistons ... and 5/64,5/64,3/16 ringpak ... same compression as H100. This MHP-146 kit should cost less but yield same street perf. Valve cover adapter sets available for about $100 ... but they look kinda goofy to me ... a good welder can use a nickel rod to weld some threaded steel into vortecs ... to fit your L82 VC's. Keep your Qjet carb ... it's a real good street carb ... another carb won't make any more HP. Don't fool will TRYING to to get a GOOD fit between your intake & Vortec heads ... get an intake made for the job. Professional Products "Cyclone Vortec" P/N 52007 is made for Vortecs and will fit both Qjet & squarebore carbs. Its equivalent is Edelbrock's Performer P/N 2116 for vortec ... but about $50 less! At minimum, fresh rod bolts are essential. The old main bearing wear patterns are a great indicator of how well the crank is aligned in caps ... align hone only if it'll make a significant difference. You'll need either self-aligning rocker arms or guide plates with the Vortecs ... most new vortec head assemblies do not come with rockers or plates.

If your machine shop has an account w/ EPW-PBM they can get you same assembled heads at similar pricing as Comp Prod. Otherwise, New Vortecs assembled w/ Z28 springs, stainless valves, retainers, locks, seals for up to .510" lift: P/N 2236494906A $500/pr at Competition Products (aka Howard's Cams) 1-800-233-0199

Professional Products P/N 52007 $104 at Motorville 1-888-463-0482

 

[Rob79er]

Jack,

Good information. Did you find these other S-P kits on a web page somewhere?

 

[Jack]

Jack,

Good information. Did you find these other S-P kits on a web page somewhere?

No, I use two Speed-Pro catalogs ... both the old X-3009 "year 2000" that shows the HPK kit you referenced and the newest X-3009 "year 2005" X-3009 details all their parts ... pistons' weights, dimensions, dish/valve pocket/dome volumes, cam specs, ring specs ... lots more good info. The newest 2005 edition NO longer shows the kits' associated dyno curves. Go to a parts store that's a stocking dealer of sealed-power/speed-pro/fel-pro ... beg them to get you a catalog ... buy the counterman's lunch. BTW, vast majority of HP/TQ you'll be gaining by installing kit and small chamber heads is result of the raised compression ratio.
JACK:gap

 

[Rob79er]

I called Scoggin Dickey and they said that this MHP-146 kit had been discontinued by S-P. Is there another comparable kit/brand that you would recommend?
thanks

 

[Jack]

I called Scoggin Dickey and they said that this MHP-146 kit had been discontinued by S-P. Is there another comparable kit/brand that you would recommend? thanks

It may be discontinued, but it's in the recently released edition too ... I'd suggest stopping by a local parts house or machine shop that both stocks & sells S-P ... ask them for price and availability of MHP-146. Frankly, if you're gonna build a motor or maintain a car ... you really need to be well-acquainted with a real parts house that's local ... one that has a real counterman ... not just computer terminal operators masquerading as parts men. Your auto machine shop knows which one is the "real" parts house ... ask 'em.

In all likelihood, freshening your L82 with similar flattops (2 valve pockets/reliefs, dome volume no less than -5cc, comp dist no less than 1.560") and 64cc heads would make about same HP/TQ ... it's all in the cam & heads & CR. BTW, an acquaintance here has a good running sbc 400 that's in his hobby class circle track car ... he's moving to another class restricted to 350 ... complete, good running sbc 400 LONG BLOCK for $1K or a bit less ... probably makes at least 350HP/400TQ ... will drop right in where L82 350 is/was. I bought another complete not-running 400 last night, that makes two 400's for me to fool with ... one will go into my 71 & a spare. If I didn't have enough already, I'd get that running 400 also ... good deal.
JACK:gap

 

[Jack]

I checked with my local S-P dealer ... kit MHP-146 is available ... my price under $500. You can probably get about the same kit in a white box brand for about half that.

The above 400 for sale ... in a hobby class circle track race car ... I checked it Friday afternoon ... the valve covers are leaking ... no funny noises, no overheating, no smoke ... reved it to about 4K several times & ran it at 1K idle for 15 minutes ... it runs great.

I pulled apart the 4 bolt main 400 I got a few days ago. Must be about the filthiest motor I've ever worked on ... but Not a crack anywhere. Standard bores will clear up at twenty-over. Crank is standard/standard ... little wear ... will probably polish out for a set of ones or twos rod & main bearings.
JACK:gap

 

[Rob79er]

Thanks Jack,
Well, I wish that I had known earlier because on Friday I ordered a kit from Northern Auto parts. It was about $249 and comes with :

Speed Pro Hyper pistons
Clevite bearings
Moly Rings
FelPro gaskets
Oil Pump
Double roller timing chain
Brass Freeze Plugs

I am planning on using the GM Camshaft ($95) that is used in the 330HP motor ( I believe) and a set of Vortec heads ($500)....

 

[curtis]

Bill75 and Glensguages: I don't quite understand the killing the low end torque mentioned except that it could possibly be better with some modifications, however, the vortecs flow extremely well right out of the box. As for the lobes deterioration on a fresh build, that can be caused by a few different things, such as lack of break-in lubricant, lack of oiling during the first 30 minutes of running or too high of valve spring pressures for break-in purposes. CompCAms has very good info on the proper way to break in your new camshaft and extend its life. I can only speak from my experience . That XE262 is a mild cam in its class, as far as duration, but it builds super torque (approx 430 lb/ft)and the top power(approx 380 hp) is as good or better when compared to other cams with similar lift. On other matters, I would refrain from mixing old style intakes with vortec heads. The vortecs have a totally different shape of runner than older style heads and you can only induce swirling and fuel drop out when the intake charge gets to the misaligned joint. For only a couple hundred bucks you can have a state of the art intake that matches and decent valve covers. You always get better reliability and fewer problems when you bolt things together that were intended to be bolted together. I would say I am extremely happy with my engine and would do it again the same way if it ever came up. Somewhere I have the magazine dyno on this set-up. It matches up real close to the DynoSim numbers. If anyone needs a copy , email me and I'll look em up and send it to ya.

 

[Jack]

Thanks Jack,
Well, I wish that I had known earlier because on Friday I ordered a kit from Northern Auto parts. It was about $249 and comes with :

Speed Pro Hyper pistons
Clevite bearings
Moly Rings
FelPro gaskets
Oil Pump
Double roller timing chain
Brass Freeze Plugs

I am planning on using the GM Camshaft ($95) that is used in the 330HP motor ( I believe) and a set of Vortec heads ($500)....

There ya go ... good deal ... you'll do fine.
JACK:gap

 

[Bill75]

Thanks Curtis. I re-read the article a few times and was thinking maybe they're saying just to avoid that casting number because it's designed for trucks only. Since there are two casting numbers and they didn't mention the other as being an issue it must be OK and that's the one everyone gets for auto use. Just guessing.
Bill

 

[grumpyvette]

having made my living at least partly over the last 35 plus years building engines and having built well in excess of 150 (lost count long ago)you might want to take the time to read these, links below, YOU MUST HAVE A GOOD GRASP ON THE BASICS BEFORE MAKING ANY VALID CHOICES.........knowing what your doing and WHY your doing it will save you thousands of dollars and many hours wasted

http://www.rustpuppy.org/chp/Welcome.html

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/350%20chevy%20engine.html

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/95518/

http://www.se-r.net/engine/block_prep.html

MOST BUT NOT ALL THIS INFO IS VERY HELPFUL FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT TO DO!




http://www.speedomotive.com/building%20tips.htm


http://www.sa-motorsports.com/blockdiy/blkdiy.shtm


buy these FIVE books, it will be the best money you ever spent, read them, and you will be miles ahead of the average guy.
HOW TO BUILD THE SMALL BLOCK CHEVEROLET by LARRY ATHERTON&LARRY SCHREIB
.
HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD
.
JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines

how to build & modify CHEVROLET small-block V-8 CAMSHAFTS & VALVTRAINS BY DAVID VIZARD

SMOKEY YUNICK,S POWER SECRETS