Need help from the pros

[cristinamr@msn.com]

You all sound like a real tight group of vette lovers. I'd like to joing your group! I've been waiting 19 years to buy my dream vette ... the 67 ... and I think I've waited long enough. I'd love to hear any and all suggestions on HOW TO DO THIS! This is my first chat room EVER. I live in Michigan and it sounds like most of you are in CA. I'm going to look at a 327/350 that has had a frame-up restoration and I'm incredibly nervous. The car was originally green, but the owner painted in rally red (the color I love). Is that bad, good????? What's a frame-off restoration?

 

[69_Dream]

First off welcome! You are at the right place, as everyone here is always more than willing to help out fellow vette lovers.

I'm sure someone will come by real soon and provide a detailed answer to your questions. Not everyone is from CA, I'm from Canada for instance, tons of people from everwhere, even overseas.

The only thing I can say is good luck with your purchase. It's one full of ups and downs.... but the ups always outnumber the downs

Sly

 

[RedRagTop]

Hi, welcome to
I hope the interior is black for that kind of color change.

 

[78SilvAnniv]

Welcome cristinamr!

Welcome to Corvette Action Center.

A frame off restoration is where the body has been removed and every item on the car has been gone over and replaced if needed. I think a frame up or frame on restoration would be with the body in place, but I'm not sure.

The different paint color will only detract from originality. I'm of the opinion that if it runs and looks good, originality is not much of a concern. However, for a numbers matching vette, I'd be hard pressed to change anything about it, especially if it is NCRS quality.

NCRS is National Corvette Restorer's Society.
Numbers Matching means that the engine, tranny and rear end are all original to that particular vette, with numbers matching its' VIN.

Anyhow, good luck in your purchase!
Heidi

 

[JonM]

Off frame is pretty intense...have a look at this post...(click the URL below)

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28394&highlight=off+frame

 

[cristinamr@msn.com]

reply to you all

Thanx for the info on the frame. The interior color the owner called it Sable, but I know from the records that it can't be original. I'm not that concerned about originality, just the beauty of it. It's been MANY years since I drove a manual steering car, can't remember if it's that tough ... will I have to start working out before I drive this pup. Thanx for the websites, too, I'm heading there now!!!

 

[cristinamr@msn.com]

Quick question ... any good book to read to help buyers on 1ST 67 VETTE purchase?? Any master mechanics willing to come to Michigan for me????

Thanx,
Cristina

 

[allcoupedup]

Christina,
The best advice I can offer is to read read and then when you think you know a lot read some more.

I recently bought a '65 - my first car that was pre 1990 with the exception of a short lived college beater.

I hung out on the NCRS boards for a while and then bought it right in Pontiac, MI.

There are about 1,000,000 things to look for so I won't go into it now.

The basics are to determine what you want in the car and what you want out of the car. By this I mean you have to assign weight to your likes (color, side exhaust, engine combo, matching numbers, etc...) and determine what you can sacrifice and what you CANT live without. The more you CANT live without the higher the price can be.

When I say you have to figure out what you want out of the car you have to determine how often you will drive it, how you will maintain and fix it, and what you expect to do with it in the future.

If you're completely new to this hobby I recommend sitting back and observing for 6 months. go to www.ncrs.org and join. Check out www.corvetteforum.com and there are numerous other 'vette boards. The more you read the better. Ask stupid questions and then ask more when the answers don't make sense. Read the ebay descriptions to learn some basics and put general (very general) values on cars.

http://www.ncrs.org/store/shop.cgi/page=New.Buyers.html/SID=1058221750.27907

This link is from NCRS and points to some publications you should check out before buying.

Remember, almost anything can be restored - it's the cost that matters.

Send me some e-mails if you'd like to chat more. I got burned in a few places on my first purchase and probably wasted $3000. Don't let it happen to you!


Brian

 

[IH2LOSE]

allcoupedup
Excellent advice!

Christina your welcome to call me on my cell if needed.There is a lot to say and I am not the greatest typer.email me for a phone number if you want I am on the east coast so we may have a time difference.

Figure a budjet first that will decide the caliber of the car you will purchase.

Understand these cars are 36 years old and will need maintnence for sure,they are not the best drivers compaired to todays standards.If and when you need maintnence and you cant do it your self you normally pay dearly for it.

The terms Frame off,Restored,Numbers matching,Date coded mean different things to different people.Watch the cars on ebay One fellows descrition of a restored car means he laid under it and painted every thing he could reach or see black.

If your up in the high dollar market I would suggest nothing other then a NCRS recent award winner.

Lastly when I was shopping for my car It was decided power steering and power brakes strictly for the pleasure of driving it.

Good luck with your quest definatley go to corvettes of carlilse this year prior to making a purchse.You see the low dollar car to the high dollar cars.(youll also see the low dollars cars sell at the dollar prices)

 

[67HEAVEN]

The best advice I can give you is to buy the "very best" car that you can afford. It will turn out to be much cheaper in the long run.

Take that for what it's worth from an original owner of a '67 big block.

Still got it too........I'm stubborn if nothing else.

 

[Andy.E]

The book you want is "An Investment in Excitement: Buying a 1963-1967 Stingray", by Rick Miller. Unfortunately it is out of print and therefore expensive ($75 and up) but it is really the only book out there on how to buy a midyear Corvette. There is one for sale on Amazon for $75 (new) and you can also try Bookfinder at www.bookfinder.com.

Mike Antonick's "Illustrated Corvette Buyer's Guide" is a good introduction to the car, though it's more of an overview and doesn't have the detail of Miller's book. Read this one first, then the Miller book.

When you become interested in the serious minutia of the midyear Corvette, the two essential reference books are the "Vette Vues Fact Book of the 1963-1967 Stingray" by M. F. Dobbins, and "The Complete Corvette Restoration and Technical Guide, Volume 2" by Noland Adams.

Good luck!

Andy

 

[cristinamr@msn.com]

carlisle?

Can anyone tell me what Corvettes of Carlisle means?

 

[allcoupedup]

It's a giant Corvette show and swap meet. It may be the premier event in the hobby.

Here's the official website:
http://www.carsatcarlisle.com/schedule/corvette/index.asp

Brian

 

[Andy.E]

A couple of points.

First, since you are in Michigan you are closer to the Bloomington Gold show (in Illinois) than Carlisle (PA), but Bloomington is in June so you already missed it. Carlisle is at the end of August.

Second, Carlisle (and Bloomington, for that matter) can be a blessing or a curse for the Corvette newbie. It can be a blessing in that there is so much to see and so much going on that it is like you are in Corvette heaven. It can be a curse in that many Corvette newbies get suckered into buying junk cars that have been dressed up to look like good cars. If you don't know your stuff you can't tell the difference.

Trust me, when you get there you will find almost the EXACT car you are looking for (if not THE exact car) and it will be for sale for just a few thousand more than you want to pay. Because of the euphoria of being in Corvette heaven, it will be hard to resist shelling out your money for that car. But remember, you have no way of verifying anything the owner says about the car, and there's no time to have a detailed inspection done by a qualified Corvette mechanic (an absolute requirement in my opinion). So if you want to go, then by all means go, but my advice is not to bring much money with you and concentrate on looking at as many cars as possible and asking lots of questions.

Yes, I may be more conservative about this than others but I had never worked on cars so it made sense for me. And it worked - I ended up with a '65 convertible that is exactly the car I wanted, and after 9 years I still love it.

Andy

 

[RedRagTop]

Good advice for you above. As for the power steering (or lack thereof) don't worry, the mid-years came with a steering wheel roughly the size of a hula-hoop to facilitate cranking...

 

[cristinamr@msn.com]

Andy E.

Thanx for the book list, I found the one that you said was the best (the out of edition one!) and ordered it. Unfortunately, I also went to all of the sites everyone told me about and now I feel like an addict! I can't stop looking for more information. I'm going to sit outside and wait for the post to read my books. Now that I'm finally an adult, well sort of, and can afford (I think) the car ... it's hard to wait. My neighbor went to Bloomington (he has a 65 that's got a big block) and he said I definitely need to take some classes. Unfortunately, there aren't any around here, just at the shows. I've been on all of the sites that sell the 67 through dealers and the prices range from 40,000 - 120,000. How on earth are you supposed to know if a price is fair???? Where do normal people sell there cars (other than the shows). Is there a site or a trade mag to find. (google gives you 1200 hits and I'm not that patient!

You guys are awesome and I hate to leave my computer now!
Thanx again,
Cristina

 

[allcoupedup]

In my opinion you should never buy from a dealer because any dealer that wishes to remain in business sells cars at a profit and they buy from the average Joe - so can you!

Here's a few places to start
http://www.collectorcartraderonline.com
http://www.hemmings.com
http://www.usedcorvettesforsale.com
http://www.1967corvette.com/

If you join NCRS the send a publication called "the driveline" out every other month in which members advertise their cars for sale. A NCRS member is less likely to rip you off and more likely to have cared for the car than your average corvette owner.

Check out the C2's for sale at corvetteforum.com
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zeroforum?id=58

or right here:
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=205

If you REALLY learn your stuff you can pick up cars at auction on the cheap. I sat and watched some corvette heavyweights snatch up cars at bloomington and expect to see them with a new coat of wax and a price 15-20% higher than the auction price.

As for determining fair price the only advice I can offer here is to sit back and observe - collect data and lots of it. Nice drivers can be had from the low 20's to the low 30's. Check out car shows and talk to the owners - you'll be surprised and how much people like to talk about their cars and the hobby

I can sense your excitement - I was there too and didn't notice my birdcage rust, low oil pressure (the gauge thank god), the above normal operating temp, a few rust spots on the frame, etc..

It was shiny, loud, and about to be mine and that's all I cared about. I still love the car and will never sell it but I wouldn't have purchased it if I knew then what I know now. An educated and patient buyer will get a good car and at least a fair deal.

Brian

 

[iron cross]

If you read what posts came before me you will not have any trouble selecting the car of your choice, which by the way is a good choice. :cool WELCOME to the forum..

 

[Subfixer]

One place not mentioned yet for finding a mid-year is eBay. You have to pay real close attention to the pictures and descriptions. Get in communication with the seller to answer all your questions and get the best deal.
I bought my '64 on eBay with the "buy-it-now" option. Paid 23,900. Mine was exactly as described, but beware of some sellers mis-representing thier cars either due to ignorance or purposely.
It's also a good place to look to get a "feel" for the pricing of these vehicles.
There was a nice '64 listed today for $25,000:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2424122885&category=6168

My car (not for sale):
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/subfixer/64FrontView.jpg

 

[markiemyster]

Ebay

I agree. Ebay is a great way to see what's out there and get an idea of price ranges. I purchased a 65 last April from Ebay and am very pleased. For the most part I think if you ask the seller alot of questions and know what a fair price is for a car in a certain condition most sellers are honest. If you can buy from someone close by it helps to look at it first. I wasn't able to but I was lucky to have an honest seller.
A big item as mentioned above is what if anything you can fix yourself or have a friend help you with and what type of things you need to pay someone to fix. (that gets very costly).
Take your time and look around. If you think you missed the perfect car because you waited to long to make an offer believe me there are 10 more waitng behind it for sale just as good.
Good luck and keep asking questions on the forums.

PS: Maybe if you see something for sale far away you might find someone on one of the forums that lives close enough to check it out for you. Just a thought.