New NCRS member, with a small question

[ssvett]

I was just reading a members reply to a post and noticed that he had his NCRS number on it, Tom. Well, after playing with and working on Corvettes for 10 years now I decided that it was time to join a national Corvette Club. NCRS was nice enough to continually send me invitations to join thier organization, and I truley believe that they are the ultimate authority on Corvettes, weather I agree with them or not (I'm not so much a numbers guy, I like to drive 'em)not to mention the fact that they have a really cool sticker. Anyway, the first thing I read, when I got my packet, was where they were talking about fraud. Basicly it read: If you have a car that does not have a correct engine in it, but you can find an engine that was cast within the time frame allowed and it has the correct casting numbers, restamping the front pad was OK. If you had a white car with red interior and you painted it black and installed a black interior, then you bought a new trim tag that read black and black......this would be fraud. I'm sure there is a reason......but I just don't get it. I would much rather buy a car and find out that the trim tag is wrong then to find out that it had a counterfiet motor in it......If anyone can shed some light on this I would thank you......I still believe that NCRS is the best national club you could belong to I just don't understand this one thing.......Thanks.....Steve

 

[Tom Bryant]

NCRS

Steve, I think that the official stand is that a restamped engine is a restoration or reproduction part, correct in appearance and funtion for judging purposes, like any other repro item, as long as it isn't held up to be the original engine. If you was to sell this car and represent it to be the engine it was born with then that is fraud. There has been much discusion on this subject in recent years and the camp is divided at best. I belong to the side that believes that there is only one correct engine for a Corvette, that being the one installed at the factory, and anything else is not correct, period. However, with the quality of stampimg that is being done on "restoration" blocks they would never get any judging done if they were required to try and deternine if each engine is original. Hense the correct appearing rule. The benefit of a doubt goes to the car. Unfortunately there are a lot of alrered blocks posing as original and people are getting burned. I read someplace that there have been more '67 435 cars Top Flighted than were ever built. I don't know if this is true but it's possible. Anyway, NCRS is a bunch of good people and I'm sure you will enjoy your membership as I have for so many years. Judging is still big but the trend seem to be going towards drivers. I don't have my original block so my '59 driver will get a 355 that looks like a 270hp.

 

[ssvett]

Tom, I knew you would answer me....Thanks.....I'm with you give me a 355 over a 283 anyday (except for resale). It just bothers me all the wheel'n deal'n that goes on in our beloved hobby. It is very difficult to get a straight answer out of anyone trying to sell a Corvette. It is almost funny to go to a Corvette auction and watch those guys (no names mentioned)Po team..opps...They know every detail that is wrong with one that you have on the block but, very little about one they have. And it's not just them, they are just the first ones that come to mind. There are or was one in KC that really was worst...... And that don't even count the Bubas' in thier garage at home that are doing the same things, they don't have near as much to lose and usually any recourse is difficult. Oh well, I just always say "Be sure of what you are buying, and don't make any hasty decisions", if it was meant to be it will still be there tommorow......PS I gotta find my NCRS # and post it on my sig too.........Steve

 

[ZRWON]

NCRS #

Your NCRS number should be on the left side of line 2 of the mailing label on your issue of the "DRIVELINE" and I agree with the answers posted to your otiginal questiona and comments (for whatever that's worth)! Bill

 

[Tom Bryant]

cowl tag=car

There was a thread running on the NCRS forum a few weeks ago about a Pro-Team '69 (I think) that had fake engine casting numbers made of bondo or something. Looked good until it started chipping off. The dealer stated they did very little to the car so even they can get fooled by a counterfiet but they should make it right as a matter of doing business. I guess what you know depends on which side of the deal you are on. I sold my '67 BB coupe many years ago and had one guy after another pick it apart as to what was correct. It made me want to yell "just what the h*** do you think you are looking at?". It was a modified non orig. BB. with EVERYTHING you could unbolt under the hood chromed, Mild flares, outside chrome headers lowered a little, wheels ect. and these people acted like they were judging it and every point deducted was a price deduction. I advertised the car with pictures as discribed so I don't feel sorry for anybody that drove a long ways looking for a Top Flight. I most definately appreciate the perfect restoration but you just can't pull too many G's driving in and out of a trailer. By the way, Welcome aboard Bill. You and Steve should visit us in the saloon tonight at 9pm eastern time. It's a good time. Tom

 

[Tom Bryant]

cowl tag=car

Sorry, I tend to ramble on and miss my point. It seems that if you have a cowl tag with a title you can build any kind of numbers matching car you want. Numbers matching does not equal correct original. If the production records ever show up at GM showing how each car was originally equiped, there will be a lot of sad faces. Tom

 

[ssvett]

Tom and Bill, I agree completely, however this engine number thing still has me a little perplexed.( by the way , Tom, I seen that post, I thought it was a 67. I posted on it when it hit the other forum. The part of it that I could not understand is why the guy fell for a "replica" motor. I think that's what they called it). It still seems to me that by allowing the restamping of the front pad, they are just asking for fraud. If the pad numbers can be restamped, why not , if the casting number and date code is correct, just ignore the pad stamp????? I am a honest guy, at least I like to think I am. However, let's say. I have a '57 vette with fuel injection. But, not the original block. Ok, now I go, and by all the NCRS rules, I get a top flight award. At this time I have no intention of selling the car......Years pass, my wife runs off with the milk man. Somhow the only thing I got out of the "D" is the car. I am, by this time, retired. I have no place to live. I decide to sell the car and buy me a brand new double wide. With all original(appearing), (truley)top flight awarded car, it is worth $57,000.00. People come from all around to look at this beutiful specimen of a Corvette. Then somone asks......"Is that the original engine?".......(If I say yes, I have the NCRS TOP FLIGHT AWARD to proove it. If I say no, I loose $10,000.) And now all I can afford is a 16 X 80, by by double wide. So I say again, why not just ignore the pad??????Steve PS I want everyone to know that I am having fun with this I don't intend to hurt anyones feelings or to get anybody PO'd.......As I said, I'm a new NCRS member and so far pretty proud to be......

 

[ssvett]

BTW Tom, I think I know someone else that rambles on................Steve

 

[John Ulrich]

Hi guys,
Tom you must have joined NCRS around '78?
I'm #2150 and I believe it was in Early'79 for me.

Bottom line I try to remember. Invest in stocks or
bonds or financial instruments!

Buy Vettes for fun!!!!!!

Drive them......Why preserve something for the the next owner who might not worry about it!

When was the last time you were stopped at an intersection
and someone asked to see your engine numbers????

Does the car own you, or do you own the car?

If your dealing in diamonds get a Jewelers opinion. If it's
Vettes find an expert.

Greed.........screws up all things that should be fun!!!

Drive'em like you stole'em!!

My 2 cents.

Later,
JU

 

[twiget]

John,

I have to agree with you! Corvettes where built to be driven. What is the fun of having a 3300lb paper weight? Nothing against a NCRS correct resto, but drive it to the show.

My .02

 

[Tom Bryant]

NCRS

John, Welcome aboard. I think it was around '78 When I joined NCRS. I may be nuts but I'm sure when I first joined my number was 1347 then a few years later it changed. I should look at my old Restorers and see. Might be something to ask Gary about. As far as engines go, that is why I said earlier that if the original engine is gone it is just gone. If they would change the points deduction so that a replacement block with the proper appearance and specs could still Top Flight I think it would defuse the whole restamp issue. Isn't a replica engine one of those plastic mock-ups you use to build custom frames? I wonder how they got it started. By the way, Speaking of rambling did I ever tell you about the '55 Corvette my friend bought? White pearl, purple flames, 409/425hp.......

 

[John Ulrich]

Hey Tom,

Your buddy with the 55 could stretch the rules and get
that big block restamped and go for judging as a factory
experimental for a GM executive. Someone would go for it.

The old saying about grandpa's ax comes to mind.
The handle has been replaced 3 times, the head was changed
once or twice.........BUT it's the original ax!!!!!

Later,
JU

 

[John Ulrich]

Hey Tom,

Your buddy with the 55 could stretch the rules and get
that big block restamped and go for judging as a factory
experimental for a GM executive. Someone would go for it.

The old saying about grandpa's ax comes to mind.
The handle has been replaced 3 times, the head was changed
once or twice.........BUT it's the original ax!!!!!

Later,
JU

 

[58Vette65]

John,

but drive it to the show.

My .02

I sorta agree - we have a enclosed trailer that if we are going over 100 miles we put the car in the trailer. Just to hot to drive one long distances in Kansas in the summer months. After we get there then we drive the car.

If it is a local show or event we will drive the car.

 

[ssvett]

Hi Dennis, Welcome to The Corvette Action Center forum. The people here are very nice(I, am most likley the most contancorus one here, so far). As you know, many here, have looked at your/our little project and they too are enjoying watching it progress(notice I didn't say "It's progress"). Tom59 has been most interested as he is, or is going to be doing the same, basic, thing with his 59......Talk to ya soon......Steve........PS I am getting some pretty good ribbing about the signs on your trailer

 

[Tom Bryant]

Hi Dennis

Welcome to the forum. Steve is doing a great job on your '58. There is only one thing I can see that he is doing wrong. You need to leave the paint off for at least 30 years to let the fiberglass breath. I'm sure mine is ready for paint now.. By the way steve. What's the story on the Black '62 Impala? Tom