Question: No corners in america ?!

[LastOfTheV8's]

As the owner of a 1993 C4 coupe living in Ireland the biggest problem I have is not sourcing parts, (nor even finding a mechanic with the knowledge and expertise required to fit them; there is at least one such person on this island!) The problem is the sheer ignorance of people this side of the world regarding american performance cars!!
I have been told several times that my vette ''wouldn't handle well because there are no corners in america'' !!? -I kid you not. Didn't Chevrolet claim the C4 to be the best handling car in the world in the early 90's ?? With a chassis that can take 0.93G lateral acceleration surely it was and still deserves now to be called a car with excellent handling... am I wrong here ??
Was Chevrolet's claim at the time in fact true? ?
Are there any other european vette owners who have to continually battle against the ignorance of ricers ?
I am aware of course that the newer generations of vettes achieve greatly in excess of these figures, Jim Mero's nurburgring record in 2008 being the prime example:cool
As a side note, I think I may be the only 40th anniversary vette owner in Ireland, if there is anyone else out there I would be glad to be proved wrong! Cheers all
View attachment 21522

 

[air1jpg]

Here is a link to a Corvette club in the UK if you would like to connect with owners there.

CCCUK -

 

[air1jpg]

GM advertized the C4 ZR1 could handle a 1G turn in the 90s. The tires on a LT1 are a little smaller so I amagine the LT1 car could do around a .75 or .80G turn.

 

[93Rubie]

An 84 Z51 package car on its smaller tires than a later LT1 car would corner around .87g.
Magazine test data I have seen puts my 93 at around .93g or so. I do not have Z07 just FX3 and I can vouch for the .93 handling, it takes a lot of speed and a tight corner to get the tires to squeal. When they do lose traction it is very controllable, got to love it.

 

[Rogue]

If you look at the map of the USA, you will see that the land is vast. Approximately 3,000 miles from the West Coast to the East Coast. If you then look at a topographical map, you will see that some areas of the country have mountains and some are flat. The USA has vast plains, flat, swampy regions, deserts that reach from north to Canada to south to the Mexican border. Always in between there are mountain regions and that is were the winding roads are. The USA has plenty of mountain passes and canyon roads that rival those found in the European Union. So tell your other Irish mates to go to Google Earth and see for themselves before they make sweeping generalizations in order to put your Corvette down.

Indeed in 1984, Chevrolet made the decision to make the Corvette the best handling car in the world. I think they went a little overboard on this mission as they made the C4 more of a race car than a sportscar. It is NOT a GT car that's for sure! Take a look underneath the car and you will see proof. The powertrain is located nearly within the car's wheelbase. The front and rear suspenions are not some cost cutting McPherson Strut setup like those found in so many cars today (and the 80's). The C4's have an upper and lower control arm (double wishbone) suspension up front and the multi-link rear suspension that keep all four of those very wide tires firmly planted on tarmac. In addition, all of the C4's weight is located low to the ground. The overall inherent design of the C4 is to make it handle. The result is that the car was capable of .91G+ cornering back in 1984 when most performance cars in that segment could only muster .88G at best. In addition, the C4's weight distribution meant it's handling is fairly neutral near the limit unlike any front drive cars that understeer themselves to death, or the Porsche 911 which would spin itself at the slightest application of brakes in a fast corner! Even after 20 years and several hundred thousand miles, a C4 will outhandle most cars made today except the very best. Even then, simply refreshing a C4's suspension will have it handling as good as most modern sports cars of today. I am not speaking theoretical here but actual experience. I live in Southern California where twisting mountain roads are plenty and I routinely test my 1991 C4's handling. I have tested it against other modern cars and sports bikes in a variety of roads from sweeping corners to tight, decreasing radius corners and the car handles beautifully! Okay it's not a 2009 ZR1 but it is plenty good enough to enable me to leave 90% of cars out there. I have owned many import sportscars front AWD Audis to Japanese made sports sedans and sportscars and the C4 is one of the best handling cars I have driven.

Having said all that, a clapped out C4 will need to have its suspension rebuilt in order to perform its best. New shocks, new bushings, new brakes should be a good start.

As for parts and service, mail order houses such as Mid-America and Ecklers is your best bet for both aftermarket and OEM parts. You can practically rebuild a C4 with all their parts. Regarding finding a good garage/mechanic to work on your car, it's hard enough to find one in the USA much less in Ireland. I tend to do most of the work myself. Of course heavier work will need a professional shop to do. I suggest you buy a Service Manual for your C4, which is available online and from those two online catalogs I mentioned. The good news is the Corvette C4 is not a super complex machine. It is simple and easy to work on compared to today's computerized cars. Its powertrain is proven and robust if simple maintenance is done to it. They are capable of running well beyond 200k miles! Things that tend to go wrong on the car are electrical in nature--like sensors that wear out from time and mileage. Ignitions systems especially need to be replaced and kept in good condition. However, all parts needed to get your C4 roadworthy and in very good condition are all available online. If you are good with a wrench, it will save a lot of headaches.

Do not forget this website. I have found this to be an excellent source of repair and diagnosis information. Whenever I have run into a problem, a simple search in here will usually reveal the solution.

 

[Rogue]

My '91 has the FX3 and it wears the 275/40/17 tires. Those are massive tires even in today's standards. When I pop the hood I am amazed at the positioning of the engine as it sits so low in relation to the car and the suspension points. It's cornering performance proves this out. I have taken roads even sport bikes would have problems with (I know because I ride one and I ride them fast) and the C4 makes it feel easy. The tighter the corner, the easier it is to reel on those sportbikes! The C4 has no body roll whatsoever and its steering is very precise. And the roadholding is simply awesome! Those massive tires never go into a position other than vertical so the turn in is incredible. You can easily place the car even in the most demanding cornering situation. It is track worthy.

My only complaint about my C4 is at high speed with the softest suspension setting, when I hit a bump the rear does steer the car. This is easily rectified with an aftermarket control arm and/or keeping the FX3 set at Sport.

 

[82ColEd]

Hello Mate..


Yep, continous battle against nimwits it is. But hey, we drive something others only dream (or fear ) about. Been told all wonderfull stories about my car. It uses 30L per 100KM, if you didnt know. It needs a tanker truck behind it to keep it running. It cant beat a Honda Civic with a fart can off the light. It's a pimp mobile.

By now, some youth actually see the light and think of the car as a Museum Piece. :L

All doesnt matter to me. It's MY car and i LOVE it. Have for almost 17 years now. Good on ya to drive one on the island.


Greetings from over here


-Stefan

 

[XLR8]

If you look at the map of the USA........

Well said Rogue.

As the owner of a 1993 C4 coupe living in Ireland ....................

IMO you own one of the most beautiful Vettes ever built!! I love the 40th Anniversary Edition Corvettes.

My first Corvette was a 1994 Torch Red convertible and the first time I put her through her paces, I was AMAZED at her cornering and handling ability. And I never had the chance to really push her to her limits.

Sounds like you're dealing with an epidemic of Corvette envy. :L

Here's a link for you to check out: TailoftheDragon.com

That's probably our most popular road here in the SE USA. 318 curves in 11 miles! For a photo from 50,000 feet click here.

Best thing to do is hang around here where you AND your C4 are valued and appreciated.

Jane Ann

 

[Rogue]

Best thing to do is hang around here where you AND your C4 are valued and appreciated.

Jane Ann

They make fun of his C4 over there because they fear it.

I remember this one guy I used to ride motorcycles with. He had this 911 Carrera (early to mid 1990's vintage). He kept on dissing my C4, calling it "old" and underpowered (L98...you know). He said Porsche made the best and would easily beat any Corvette....blah, blah, blah....well I went online and looked up the tests and I knew his 911 was NOT as fast as he thought! So one day I saw him driving home from a local coffee shop and I drove next to his 911 on my C4 to "say hello". He was all proud of his 911, aviator glasses on, Porsche baseball cap, etc. He didn't even want to smile at me but just nodded as if he was ashamed to see me. Well, I blew his pathetic turd away in an impromptu race to 60 mph.....twice in a row....I guess the first time he thought it was luck so he decided to get humiliated a 2nd time. I have never heard from him since.

 

[LastOfTheV8's]

They make fun of his C4 over there because they fear it.

I remember this one guy I used to ride motorcycles with. He had this 911 Carrera (early to mid 1990's vintage). He kept on dissing my C4, calling it "old" and underpowered (L98...you know). He said Porsche made the best and would easily beat any Corvette....blah, blah, blah....well I went online and looked up the tests and I knew his 911 was NOT as fast as he thought! Well, I blew his pathetic turd away in an impromptu race to 60 mph.....twice in a row....I guess the first time he thought it was luck so he decided to get humiliated a 2nd time. I have never heard from him since.

why people don't bother to learn the facts about (the limitations of) their beloved jap or german cars I will never understand! The epitomy of performance is not to be found in anything boasting 2 or 3 litres and a turbo!

Well said Rogue.



IMO you own one of the most beautiful Vettes ever built!! I love the 40th Anniversary Edition Corvettes.

My first Corvette was a 1994 Torch Red convertible and the first time I put her through her paces, I was AMAZED at her cornering and handling ability. And I never had the chance to really push her to her limits.

Sounds like you're dealing with an epidemic of Corvette envy. :L

I agree! I have taken care not to overstep the bounds (of my own 'skills' and ego;squint in the first year of driving my vette, but as my confidence grows I have also been amazed at how solidly this car handles, absolutely no bodyroll whatsoever! Or at least; none that I can induce!

Here's a link for you to check out: TailoftheDragon.com

That's probably our most popular road here in the SE USA. 318 curves in 11 miles! For a photo from 50,000 feet click here. Jane Ann[/QUOTE]
Thanks for this! It just became my latest driving fantasy:eyerole Spectacular!

Hello Mate..


Yep, continous battle against nimwits it is. But hey, we drive something others only dream (or fear ) about. Been told all wonderfull stories about my car. It uses 30L per 100KM, if you didnt know. It needs a tanker truck behind it to keep it running. It cant beat a Honda Civic with a fart can off the light. It's a pimp mobile.
-Stefan

I have heard the very same rubbish from the same breed of nimwits here! Strangely though- as confidently as they all champion the performance of their painfully loud dirt-boxes; none of them have yet challenged me when stopped at traffic lights! Not one in 18 months of daily driving! Fear it is then, behind it all! They do stare of course, while I act as though they are not even worth a courtesy glance, and then naturally; take off from the lights like the Millenium Falcon

My '91 has the FX3 and it wears the 275/40/17 tires. Those are massive tires even in today's standards. When I pop the hood I am amazed at the positioning of the engine as it sits so low in relation to the car and the suspension points. It's cornering performance proves this out. I have taken roads even sport bikes would have problems with (I know because I ride one and I ride them fast) and the C4 makes it feel easy. The tighter the corner, the easier it is to reel on those sportbikes! The C4 has no body roll whatsoever and its steering is very precise. And the roadholding is simply awesome! Those massive tires never go into a position other than vertical so the turn in is incredible. You can easily place the car even in the most demanding cornering situation. It is track worthy.

Great reply thank you I can't help noticing that everyone here can qualify their statements with actual experiences, and comparable tests.. unlike the vast majority of Vette enviers.

[/QUOTE]If you look at the map of the USA, you will see that the land is vast....[/QUOTE]

Have to say, this was hilarious and very well written too. No argument here!

Indeed in 1984, Chevrolet made the decision to make the Corvette the best handling car in the world. I think they went a little overboard on this mission as they made the C4 more of a race car than a sportscar.

What I have been trying in vain to tell people here!

Do not forget this website. I have found this to be an excellent source of repair and diagnosis information. Whenever I have run into a problem, a simple search in here will usually reveal the solution.

Again I agree absolutely, this website is a superb source of information and expertise, without which I would be (even more) clueless:W Am I the only vette owner who has not an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of these beasts?! Probably:bash

I can vouch for the .93 handling, it takes a lot of speed and a tight corner to get the tires to squeal. When they do lose traction it is very controllable, got to love it.

Definitely. A LOT!

Here is a link to a Corvette club in the UK if you would like to connect with owners there.

CCCUK -

Cheers!

 

[LastOfTheV8's]

How could I forget, the C4 was the first pace car used in the INDY 500 that didn't need to be modified! That is evidence enough of her handling ability!

 

[LastOfTheV8's]

Thought it worthwhile posting the pic of the Dragon, does anyone else know of any outstanding places to enjoy our vettes as GM intended ?? Thanks to XLR8 for this one!
View attachment 21523

 

[Rogue]

There are lots of proper venues for the Corvette to be enjoyed. It just depends on what region of the States you are in. Sadly though, some regions are indeed all flat for hundreds of miles so it is only the wide open stretches of arrow straight roads. I'm lucky enough to have them all within an hour from my home in SoCal. We have the mountains, the deserts, and the coast. All of them offering a great variety of roads in which to enjoy high performance machines whether on 2-wheels or four. We also have race tracks of course--nothing like those beautiful tracks you have in Europe. We probably only have a few like that here in the States. Laguna Seca is the one that comes to mind because it is located in prime motorsports country--the Central Coast of California. MotoGP hosts an event there in July.

My favorite road in the California Central Coast of course is Highway 1. It meanders along the coastline for 100 miles of twists and turns while captivating you with beautiful coastal views.

 

[bucket]

As the owner of a 1993 C4 coupe living in Ireland the biggest problem I have is not sourcing parts, (nor even finding a mechanic with the knowledge and expertise required to fit them; there is at least one such person on this island!) The problem is the sheer ignorance of people this side of the world regarding american performance cars!!
I have been told several times that my vette ''wouldn't handle well because there are no corners in america'' !!? -I kid you not. Didn't Chevrolet claim the C4 to be the best handling car in the world in the early 90's ?? With a chassis that can take 0.93G lateral acceleration surely it was and still deserves now to be called a car with excellent handling... am I wrong here ??
Was Chevrolet's claim at the time in fact true? ?
Are there any other european vette owners who have to continually battle against the ignorance of ricers ?
I am aware of course that the newer generations of vettes achieve greatly in excess of these figures, Jim Mero's nurburgring record in 2008 being the prime example:cool
As a side note, I think I may be the only 40th anniversary vette owner in Ireland, if there is anyone else out there I would be glad to be proved wrong! Cheers all
View attachment 21522

.

i remember reading a road and track article on the all new corvette in 84..out of this world suspension rant and rave about the trick set up etc etc etc..
they are still pretty cool

 

[bucket]

if its air you want, i know a little two lane blacktop road in arkansas ,called the joy hills , where you can get air doing 60mph.!

 

[XLR8]

......... does anyone else know of any outstanding places to enjoy our vettes as GM intended ??

...................My favorite road in the California Central Coast of course is Highway 1. It meanders along the coastline for 100 miles of twists and turns while captivating you with beautiful coastal views.

When I read the question, HWY 1 was the first that I thought of, Rogue. If I'm ever in California, that's on my short list of things I must do!

Jane Ann

 

[Toms007]

There are many such roads in the spectacular Rocky Mountains of Colorado. US Highway 50 west out of Canyon City is pretty spectacular. Not exactly the same as the "Tail" but very nice road to test your Corvette.

 

[Rogue]

When I read the question, HWY 1 was the first that I thought of, Rogue. If I'm ever in California, that's on my short list of things I must do!

Jane Ann

Hwy 1 along the California Coast is a must-see/drive road. Hwy 1 actually spans the whole western coastline but only north of Santa Barbara (100 miles north of Los Angeles) is it really scenic and mostly devoid of civilization. Don't bother with it from L.A. and south of that...too much urban sprawl.

Just imagine a road that is smooth as silk and hugs the coastline as it rises and falls with the terrain. The California coastline is actually pretty ragged and mountainous, although there are sections that are fairly flat. From Morro Bay to Monterey the coastline is mostly uninhabited and devoid of much development. Some people had the foresight to protect it, thank goodness! That's the first 125 miles! It gets crowded along the Monterey Peninsula before emptying out again north of that until Half Moon Bay and San Francisco. However, as soon as you pass the Golden Gate Bridge, Hwy 1 once again seperates itself from the hustle and bustle of the 101 and hugs the rugged coastline once again. From Mill Valley all the way to Fort Bragg is about 200 miles! Although you will pass by small coastal towns along the way, the road is usually just empty and twisty and ideally scenic like those that you see in photo calendars! You will need the whole day just to explore that one stretch of road on your Corvette! But the icing on the cake is the other roads leading into and out of Hwy 1 that are nearly as scenic and just as twisty, if not more! I've ridden Hwy 1 between Morro Bay all the way to Fort Bragg a couple of times on my sportbike, driven on it once in my Corvette. If you love the Sea along with driving a high performance car, this is the stuff dreams are made of!

It's no wonder Car and Driver magazine named Santa Barbara and Mill Valley one of the best places to live if you love to drive. Both cities spans the southern to northern sections of Hwy 1 and everything in between!

 

[Black Bart]

Corvettes are not the only vehicles that a lot of people don't know anything about.

Just tonight I was reading on a forum that most own the little motorized skateboards from japan and a guy ask for advice on buying a new vehicle.

He works at an airport and goes to work early am before the plows are out and his 4x4 explorer was tired and he wanted to get something that did better on fuel mileage.

As I expected they told him their belly dragging skateboard would go anywhere that his 4x4 could because FWD was superior to 4 wheel drive.
Somehow they fail to realize that a 4x4 is front wheel drive also but has the rear driving too.
Stupidity has no boundary's you can find it everywhere.

 

[ßill]

Here is a link to a '91 ZR-1 with a novice driver on nurburgring

YouTube - ZR1 Corvette Nurburgring