I am looking at a 69 427 and the owner claims that the ENTIRE car is numbers matching. I have all the numbers off the car and would like to check this out for myself, how do i do this? Does someone have a link to a site that shows how this is done? I have searched this site and nothing actually shows me how to do it, please help!!
Please help me with this "numbers matching" thing!!
- Thread starter 250rtone
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knish71
Guest
250rtone,
Grab yourself a copy of the NCRS Technical Information Manual/Judging Guide. Everything you need to know about numbers will be in there. Go to:
http://ncrs.org/store/shop.cgi/page=C3.Library.htm/SID=1123678340.7234
Robert
Grab yourself a copy of the NCRS Technical Information Manual/Judging Guide. Everything you need to know about numbers will be in there. Go to:
http://ncrs.org/store/shop.cgi/page=C3.Library.htm/SID=1123678340.7234
Robert
250rtone said:
kiwi vet
Well-known member
Hey 250rtone
Firstly welcome to CAC
Try the link below to get overall of what "matching numbers" are.
This link also give a list of referance books you can buy to check all types of vette numbers and trivia.
Sorry I cant be more help at this stage.
If I find anything else I'll post
http://www.vettefinders.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/Vette101Story/ID/1
Good Luck!
Firstly welcome to CAC
Try the link below to get overall of what "matching numbers" are.
This link also give a list of referance books you can buy to check all types of vette numbers and trivia.
Sorry I cant be more help at this stage.
If I find anything else I'll post
http://www.vettefinders.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/Vette101Story/ID/1
Good Luck!
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L
lnirenberg
Guest
250rtone said:
Assume he is lying re the everything qualifier and go from there. 37 years is an awfully long time for a car to survive 100% original.
kiwi vet
Well-known member
Hey 250rtone
Have found another more detailed site
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/3000/matchnos.html
The only other thing I could suggest for a fast numbers check, is ring the NCM, and they have the ability to email you a build sheet for about $30. They offerred this to me due to the distance, so it might fly for you.
You might have to brown nose a little to get it done quick, but if your enthusiastic (and it sounds like you are) this may be the best option.
Again Good Luck!!
Have found another more detailed site
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/3000/matchnos.html
The only other thing I could suggest for a fast numbers check, is ring the NCM, and they have the ability to email you a build sheet for about $30. They offerred this to me due to the distance, so it might fly for you.
You might have to brown nose a little to get it done quick, but if your enthusiastic (and it sounds like you are) this may be the best option.
Again Good Luck!!
early shark
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250rtone:
Just post all the numbers and description, like block ......, head........, manifold........ and so on. Be sure to give vin # and trim tag info as well. Need both casting dates and casting #'s.
I can decode all for you, no big deal.
Just post all the numbers and description, like block ......, head........, manifold........ and so on. Be sure to give vin # and trim tag info as well. Need both casting dates and casting #'s.
I can decode all for you, no big deal.
Vettehead Mikey
Well-known member
The first thing I would do is ask the seller for his exact definition of 'numbers matching' and compare it to your own defintion and expectations. I bet there's no two people on this planet that agree 100% on the definition, especially if one person is the seller and the other is the buyer.
If you are expecting every component to be the factory original piece that St. Louis or Tonawanda installed and are willing to pay a premium price for this car, best have an experienced person inspect it for you. Just having 'the numbers' will not guarantee that it's the original piece, there's lots of restamps and outright forgeries around.
Can you get us a good close up photo of the engine stamp pad?
Where in Canada are you? There might be somebody from the NCRS that can have a look for you.
If you are expecting every component to be the factory original piece that St. Louis or Tonawanda installed and are willing to pay a premium price for this car, best have an experienced person inspect it for you. Just having 'the numbers' will not guarantee that it's the original piece, there's lots of restamps and outright forgeries around.
Can you get us a good close up photo of the engine stamp pad?
Where in Canada are you? There might be somebody from the NCRS that can have a look for you.
Vettehead Mikey
Well-known member
kiwi vet said:
Info is not available from anyone for pre-77 cars, so don't bother asking. The museum only has Bowling Green cars, nothing before.
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- #10
Thanks guys, i will post all the numbers i have later today. The car has been restored, he claims it still has the orignal heads, block, trans, and diff. The intake ,carb and cam has been changed but he says he still has the cam. Is around 40g's CDN a good price for this if it all checks out? Does the changed parts decrease much from the value? I think it's a good deal.
- Thread starter
- #11
srs244
Well-known member
250rtone said:
i think if you re-read your post above, you will quickly realize that it isn't a numbers matching car in the truest sense. (non original intake manifold for starters). chances are that at least a few of the other components of a "numbers matching" vehicle are missing also, not counting the carb which may or may note be properly date coded (even something as simple as a non date standard alternator for starters would be my guess)
as stated above, the definition of a matching numbers car is kind of like beauty, it's in the eyes of the beholder, lol.
steve
kiwi vet
Well-known member
Hey 250rtone
Sorry about that post about NCM, my excuse......it was 2am-ish in the morning here and the brain fade was creeping in.
I know NCM only does 81 and later, what was I thinking????? :W
Sorry about that post about NCM, my excuse......it was 2am-ish in the morning here and the brain fade was creeping in.
I know NCM only does 81 and later, what was I thinking????? :W
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- #14
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GaryS
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250rtone said:
Quite honestly, if you are in such a hurry to buy the car, but you are worried about numbers matching, then you seem to have a conflicting interests. You can't be worried about a numbers matching car without verifying the info. To do that you need a source and, realistically, the NCRS folks are the best that there is at this game. If you call them, I bet they will even do an overnite shipment if you are willing to pay. I don't know of anywhere else where you can get all of the information in one little booklet. Borrow a copy from a friend?
Gary
One quick word of advice or warning that no one else seems to have mentioned.......
Numbers matching and original are not necessarily the same thing!
If for example the block was cracked at some point and replaced with a restamped block it would still be numbers matching but NOT original and a restamped block is usually easy to detect IF you know what to look for.
As others have said, 36 years is a long time for a car to still retain a lot of it's ORIGINAL parts and especially since the early chrome bumper sharks are really climbing in value lately it's not surprising to find restamped blocks and other replacement parts and but the seller claims "numbers matching" to get a high resale price. This is VERY common in the C1 and C2 cars and becoming more and more so in the early C3's now also.
i'm not trying to scare you off the car but with a price like that I'd research and make very sure of what you are buying BEFORE you lay out the money.
DO NOT RUSH into any purchase - use your head and not your heart.
good luck!
Numbers matching and original are not necessarily the same thing!
If for example the block was cracked at some point and replaced with a restamped block it would still be numbers matching but NOT original and a restamped block is usually easy to detect IF you know what to look for.
As others have said, 36 years is a long time for a car to still retain a lot of it's ORIGINAL parts and especially since the early chrome bumper sharks are really climbing in value lately it's not surprising to find restamped blocks and other replacement parts and but the seller claims "numbers matching" to get a high resale price. This is VERY common in the C1 and C2 cars and becoming more and more so in the early C3's now also.
i'm not trying to scare you off the car but with a price like that I'd research and make very sure of what you are buying BEFORE you lay out the money.
DO NOT RUSH into any purchase - use your head and not your heart.
good luck!
Vettehead Mikey
Well-known member
250rtone said:
Enough people have given you similar advice, hope you're listening.
40K is on the high end for a 69 big block in Canada, I would expect a very nice quality car for that many loonies. Please do your homework before jumping at this car.
Vettehead Mikey
Well-known member
OK, I'll bite. The block casting number should be 3935439 or 3955270 or 3963512.
Which one you got?
Which one you got?
L
lnirenberg
Guest
250rtone said:
New thought--rushing into a must have buy often ends badly. Are you competing with someone for the car? If not, now that he's decided to sell the car is he going to be offended that you want to verify the cars originality and snub any offer you make? This car has evolved from a 100% #s matching to a most major components #s matching which makes me a bit skeptical of any info you get from the seller. This sense of urgency you have expressed is in your own mind--relax and take your time. #s aside have you done/had someone else do a thorough going over, driven it? When the CAD was $.65 American $$s I would say 40gs would have been a very good buy, obviously @ closer to $.85 per USD less so. What options, what tranie, which 427, coupe or vert--more info. But mostly, slow dowwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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