Points to Electronic Ignition Conversion

[ernie d]

Hi guys,

Am thinking about buying a Pertronix 2 conversion kit for my 74 454. Question - will I also have to replace the coil at the same time? Also, any comments about the Pertronix set compared to others available?

Thanks!

Ernie

 

[Jack]

Ernie:
This one's more expensive, but is superior to pertronix and all others ... all this one's parts that fire the motor are available at most any local auto parts store ... not so with the others. You don't have to replace coil with pertronix ... but this one comes with a new coil. Several CAC members are using this one.
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69113

JACK:gap

 

[pws69]

Hi guys,

Am thinking about buying a Pertronix 2 conversion kit for my 74 454. Question - will I also have to replace the coil at the same time? Also, any comments about the Pertronix set compared to others available?

Thanks!

Ernie

I've been running a Pertronix for about 3 years now with no trouble at all. Stock coil will work fine. You do need to feed it with a switched full 12V source. I ran a wire from my fuse block IGN socket to feed the Pertronix, Electric Choke, and Spal Control circuit.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Being that's there no performance advantage and a real reliability issue with the pertronix POS, I always wonder why people are so anxious to switch..............

 

[pws69]

Being that's there no performance advantage and a real reliability issue with the pertronix POS, I always wonder why people are so anxious to switch..............

So, how do you really feel?

How about no points to adjust or replace, no dwell wandering, constant electrical feed through rpm range.

 

[midyearroadster427]

I've Been Using The Pertronix Unit For 5 Years Now. I Have Absolutely No Complaints....easier Starting...and As Mentioned...no Points To Set And Replace.....fits Under Stock Cap...so If You Are Into The Stock Thing...no One Will Ever Know...and Its Been Around For A While Now So..its Record Should Speak For Itself...their Coil Has A Lower Ohm Rating..thats All ,yours Will Probably Work Fine.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

So, how do you really feel?

How about no points to adjust or replace, no dwell wandering, constant electrical feed through rpm range.

I'm glad you read the marketing BS from Pertronix.

With the amount that these cars get driven, the points need adjusting maybe once or twice a year- ten minute job, big deal. They need replacing every 3- 5 years, twenty minute job, big deal. It all gets done while the hood is open anyway to do other unrelated maintenance. You do open your hood now and then don't you?

My dead bones original stock distributor has constant dwell up to red line. The car starts on the first turn of the key (even after extended winter storage) and will reliably idle down to 300 RPM if I wanted it to.

99.9% of the things that these 'miracle units' do can be achieved by setting up a stock distributer correctly.

How about the abysmal reliability rate that has left countless users stranded? Why would anybody spend money on a widget that introduces a new failure mode that just does not exist on the stock points system? I'm still amazed.

 

[pws69]

I'm glad you read the marketing BS from Pertronix.

With the amount that these cars get driven, the points need adjusting maybe once or twice a year- ten minute job, big deal. They need replacing every 3- 5 years, twenty minute job, big deal. It all gets done while the hood is open anyway to do other unrelated maintenance. You do open your hood now and then don't you?

My dead bones original stock distributor has constant dwell up to red line. The car starts on the first turn of the key (even after extended winter storage) and will reliably idle down to 300 RPM if I wanted it to.

99.9% of the things that these 'miracle units' do can be achieved by setting up a stock distributer correctly.

How about the abysmal reliability rate that has left countless users stranded? Why would anybody spend money on a widget that introduces a new failure mode that just does not exist on the stock points system? I'm still amazed.

Well, then I guess you'll just have to keep on wondering....

 

[pgtr]

ernie_d,

Any of the aftermarket electronic ignition kits are excellent and one of the single best upgrades one can treat an early C3 to. Last I heard the Pertronix is one of the better priced sets and should fit under the stock cap. Various brands use different triggering mechanisms. Pertronix uses a magnetic pickup I think which is what by the way all the OEMs including GM.

EDIT: YES - you can definately use your stock or current coil with the Pertronix kit or other replacement electronic ignition kits. The need to do a lot of upgrades (unless yours has a legitimate failure) to things like coils is marketing hype.

Just a quick warning - every time this topic comes up - there is a member of this forum who will make emotional arguments bordering on the irrational for the benefits of points and evils of electronic ignition. Use your own common sense in considering such comments and the motives such as they are behind it.

 

[pgtr]

Being that's there no performance advantage and a real reliability issue with the pertronix POS, I always wonder why people are so anxious to switch..............

I think what a lot of us wonder is why the chip on the shoulder over the usage of the electronic ignition system.

I'm glad you read the marketing BS from Pertronix.

"Marketing BS"? Does Mikey care to be more specific? The information Mikey labels as "marketing BS" that was posted by pws69 is quite accurate, fact based and verifiable by anyone who has taken the time to understand ignition systems. ;squint:

With the amount that these cars get driven, the points need adjusting maybe once or twice a year- ten minute job, big deal. They need replacing every 3- 5 years, twenty minute job, big deal. It all gets done while the hood is open anyway to do other unrelated maintenance.

You [pws69] do open your hood now and then don't you?

Apparently the thought of replacing points w/ electronic ignition is so sacrilege to Mikey that if I didn't now any better I'd almost wonder if that was meant as a shot? Real cute.

My dead bones original stock distributor has constant dwell up to red line. The car starts on the first turn of the key (even after extended winter storage) and will reliably idle down to 300 RPM if I wanted it to.

...yawn...

99.9% of the things that these 'miracle units' do can be achieved by setting up a stock distributer correctly.

Ahah! A statistical claim. Now let's do the math and see if we can get to Mikey's 99.9% shall we?

:bar

Do Mikey's plugs last as long as electronic ignition/plugs?
Plug life with electronic ignition: ~75K miles (rough estimate).
Mikey's plugs: ~10K miles (generous estimate).
Mikey's claim: 99.9%.
Actual: 13% of the plug life of electronic
Mikey's margin of error: 86.9%
(dang, not a good start at all!)

Do Mikey's points last as long as electronic ignition?
Well considering there are no points not much of a contest here... 0%
Mikey's margin of error: 99.9%

Mikey's voltage:
Depending on what reference you choose, Mikey's claim is off by about 30-50% Let's ballpark it at about 40%.
60% the voltage of electronic
Mikey's margin of error: 40% (estimated)

Annual maintenance time spend setting timing/dwell.
Mikey spends a half or or whatever...
THose foolish enough to run electronic ignition: 0 minutes.
Mikey's margin of error: 99.9% (actual)

Mikey's points ability to dependably and consistently fire the overly lean calibrated engines of the C3 era is difficult to quantify in terms of % (I wonder how Mikey arrived at 99.9%?). However we know that due to lean misfire conditions and the demands of cleaner, more thorough burning engines placed on GM and all other makers by the gov - that they abandoned points in 1975. Mikey would have us believe they abandoned points because of that one-tenth of one percent (0.1%) but of course common sense dictates otherwise. :duh

Taking the above calculated percents into account with respect to Mikey's claim of 99.9% the functional performance capabilities of electronic igntion - it is demonstrated that Mikey's claim is utterly erroneous and devoid of any legitimacy.

How about the abysmal reliability rate that has left countless users stranded?

Please share with us the data or statistics that Mikey used to make claims such as "abysmal reliability rate" and "countless users stranded". Please share the raw data and source of Mikey's information. Otherwise I'm afraid we are left to speculate if Mikey is on a personal axe grinding mission over the use of electronic ignition.

Why would anybody spend money on a widget that introduces a new failure mode that just does not exist on the stock points system? I'm still amazed.

Amazed is one way to describe it.

 

[atmmac]

i got an hei distributor the pertronix thing was a pain in the ass and mine was defective. I went with Accel hei with coil and wires. Great setup works awesome on my 66 and you can really notice a difference starting it up.

 

[waterboy1976]

Ive been running a Dual point out of a 67 Vette in my 73......350.....with 10.32/1 compression etc etc....and with the rebuild we did to the dist and the way we curved it, no complaints here......

So you have to adjust them once in a while......I like my old dual point...

But as they say.....to each his own......

 

[craig32]

ernie_d,

Just a quick warning - every time this topic comes up - there is a member of this forum who will make emotional arguments bordering on the irrational for the benefits of points and evils of electronic ignition.

Ernie D.
There are also a few people on this forum that like to throw facts at someone's opinions too. The afore mentioned - Vettehead Mikey is NCRS all the way.
I like the factory setup, either way. I have a '67 engine with points that I'm not changing to electronic, and an 81 with electronic that I wouldn't change to points. They both fire up when I hit the starter.
All the other aftermarket companies don't spend millions of dollars and hours of research making parts for a Chevy, when they also make parts to fit other vehicles. I've read a lot of other threads on here with people putting on a lot of aftermarket parts and not getting them to work right.
Just my opinion, I hope I'm entitled to it.

Craig

PS Ernie, sweet car!

 

[pgtr]

Ernie D.
There are also a few people on this forum that like to throw facts at someone's opinions too.

There's a BIG difference between A) an opinion and B) someone trying to dress up an opinion as fact.

All the other aftermarket companies don't spend millions of dollars and hours of research making parts for a Chevy, when they also make parts to fit other vehicles. I've read a lot of other threads on here with people putting on a lot of aftermarket parts and not getting them to work right.

This is a very generalized statement that can be both true and false. And for the record it's one that I tend to agree with more often than not. While such a general statement may ring true with the myriad go-fast hype marketeers of bolt-on speed equipment - In the specific context of electronic ignition, aftermarket companies simply do not need to spend "millions of dollars and hours" researching such a simple system as electronic ignition that has been with us for 40ish years. Essentially all they are doing is taking an existing OEM system design and adapting it to be easily retrofitted in kit form in older vehicles. Something that hardly requires a major R&D effort.

In summary there is generally speaking a lot more right than wrong in the engineering of an early C3 but in the ignition dept - it would have benefited from the implementation of electronic ignition a LOT sooner than 1975.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Ernie D.
There are also a few people on this forum that like to throw facts at someone's opinions too. The afore mentioned - Vettehead Mikey is NCRS all the way.

Craig,

In pqtr's haste to reduce yet another post to a mud slinger, he's overlooked the fact that the original question (and my reponses) had nothing to do with electronic ignition in the context of a GM HEI system. The question was about the electronic points replacement kits which is a different kettle of fish. I was just wondering how far he would wind himself up this time.

It is true that I do speak up when this particular subject comes up, and will continue to do so. My personal experience with the pertronix POS is as stated - abysmal- I got left stranded on a Sunday evening in a small town with no garage and no cell phone and certainly no AAA (or CAA). The cost to tow my vehicle back home was astronomical.

When I read that the units are no more reliable now than they were back then and they are still marketed and percieved as a 'performance and reliability upgrade', it makes my blood boil.

I'm sorry I don't have a 1 meg excel file full of stats to prove my point but then again, it is said that 64% of stats are made up on the spot but only 17% of people understand that.

Gotta run out and change my plugs now in all my points and coil equipped vehicles, apparantly they all wore out a long time ago, statistically speaking.

 

[pgtr]

In pqtr's haste to reduce yet another post to a mud slinger, he's overlooked the fact that the original question (and my reponses) had nothing to do with electronic ignition in the context of a GM HEI system. The question was about the electronic points replacement kits which is a different kettle of fish.

So let me get this straight: HEI electronic ignition is OK. Aftermarket isn't? :confused Mikey's points functionally perform to 99.9% of what an aftermarket system does but not 99.9% of what an HEI does? :confused

Mikey should feel free to draw a technical distinction between HEI vs aftermarket brand of Mikey's choice with an "abysmal reliability rate" and "countless users stranded" ;worship

BTW my thanks to Mikey for answering at least one question - now at least we know where that massive chip on Mikey's shoulder comes from.

It is true that I do speak up when this particular subject comes up, and will continue to do so.

Actually in my opinion it's more along the lines of slinging provacative mud :argue thinly disguised as facts rather than a simple unemotional exchange of fact based information but whatever.

My personal experience with the pertronix POS is as stated - abysmal- I got left stranded on a Sunday evening ...[blah blah blah]

This is what Mikey calls "abysmal reliability rate" and "countless users stranded" !!! Mikey's sample size is ONE! I was hoping Mikey could do better than that. Come on - that's not even enecdotal let alone a "rate" of failures. :crazy

When I read that the units are no more reliable now than they were back then and they are still marketed and percieved as a 'performance and reliability upgrade', it makes my blood boil.

Rather than spinning a lot of negative opinions as facts based on a single personal experience :W - why doesn't Mikey put his money/time/efforts and energy where your mouth is and contact his states attorney general consumer division and report those purported clowns? I mean Mikey has all these "rates" and such - just turn over his body of evidence get those snake oil merchants shut down and do us all a favor. Please Mikey, please. Upon your sucess I'll even buy ya a beer - no kidding.

 

[thesurvivor]

Didn't the '74 big block come with HEI? I thought they were the "test bed" for the GM-wide change in '75.

 

[Koop]

I've been running electronic ignition for about 10 years now...I love it, no more messing with points and frequently replacing plugs. My first electronic ignition went away due to a transmission fire which cooked the distributor and was replaced with new stock distributor upgraded to electronic ignition (not with pertronix, I forget what brand) and it works great! Some mods actually make a C3 better, IMO this is one of them. Don't go confusing me with facts, my car works great and is lower maintenance than it used to be.

 

[Jack]

Didn't the '74 big block come with HEI? I thought they were the "test bed" for the GM-wide change in '75.

That's really interesting ... I'd like to know more about this ... if 74 BB vette did have HEI, was tach mech or elec? ... did GM have "serial production" of true HEI dist (not "TI") that had a mech tach drive ? Paging JohnZ & others.
JACK:gap

 

[BarryK]

sorry all, i have to go with Mike on this one.
the only thing adding a Pertronix or similar usit is doing is replacing the points. There is no real performance advantage and it does give one more item to possibly fail. Points themselves VERY RARELY fail and although I don't have stats in front of me I'd put money down that there is a much higher failure rate on the Pertronix and similar units than with points. There were millions of cars driving around with points in them for years and years and the roads were not lined up with cars broken down because of failed points.
If you are worried, keep a set a extra points in your glove box and in 10 minutes or less you can have them swapped out on the side of the road. If your electronic upgrade craps out on you you are stuck..........unless you kept an extra set of points in your glove box to swap them in and than where was the advantage you spent money on for the electronics.
There is one advantage to the electronic upgrade and that is you no longer have to worry about checking and setting dwell during tune-ups but that takes all of maybe 3 minutes and if your distributor is in good condition and set up properly your dwell should not be varying anyway. Mine is rock steady PAST redline.
In fact, if you are changing to electronic to eliminate dwell issues than you have a bigger problem with your distributor than adding a Pertronix is going to fix anyway and you better pull your distributor and get it rebuilt no matter what.

Basically you will spend money on upgrading to electronic ignition to save yourself less than 15 minutes a year during your regular tune-up but you will also add in an additional factor of possible failure occuring more so than you will have with points.

I strongly considered at one time switching to the Pertronics but than researched the issue and listened to people MUCH more knowledgle than me such as JohnZ and SWCDuke and became convinced that there were more disadvantages to switching than staying stock.

just my $.02