Positraction Plates Popping Again And Changing Rear End Lube

[SVO]

Gary was speaking the truth about in times past about driving in figure "8"s. That was the acceptable practice at the time. The only place locally to do figure "8's was the local high school football field parking lot. More than once had to explain what I or my buddies was up to by the police.

 

[GTR1999]

Thanks guys for watching my back while I was off this board.

Ok so as I said from the start I was hesitant posting knowing full well there seem to be controversy with just about every TBTR threads and frankly I believe he just likes the attention, kind of like that kid in 5th grade that always got on your nerves even when you finally had enough and smacked him on the playground and that didn't change him. I am not condoning violence by any means, just what it reminds me of and it's not 1969 anymore.

So, after years of rebuilding these units and owning-rebuilding-driving a vette the past 39 years I offer up what as worked for me and those I worked with around the world. The posi cornering does work to get the oil/additive into the clutch packs on each side, would driving normally do it- yes doing the 8's work - yes and gets it done faster. As far as looking foolish I can't say. I am alone in an empty parking lot typically and if there was anyone around we using end up talking about cars if we meet. This procedure might have even been mentioned in one of the old manuals back in the 60's or 70's I would have to go back and look but really I don't have the time for that.

What I usually get challenged on is how I build a posi- like Tom Watt has the past 45 years without the springs or plates. The ones challenging that procedure can be narrowed down to the rebuilders who don't know or want to learn how to do it. It takes me about 5-6 hours alone to polish and tune a posi- No other rebuilder will do that and the one on the CF site who claims to lost his credibility once pictures of his work was posted- although the guys on that site had no clue and were "fools" to believe what that person was selling them. The guys I trained saw it right away unfortunately the guy paying was duped.

I post information on the areas of a corvette I know about only. I will never post on a subject I have little or no experience with, such as painting a corvette- not what I do. The areas of work I speak about here, on other forums, at my seminars at Carlisle, through many emails and phone calls describe how to build the best. My motivation has never been to make the most money, the fastest I can but rather to build the best it's that simple. I don't build a lot and may even start to tapered off since I'm not getting any younger and my 69 had been sitting 10 years waiting for me to build it again. So those that have listened and then gone off and did the work themselves saved time, a lot of money, and know exactly what they got. You just can't say that about anyone else in this business. Some are good but I have repaired work from just about every vette rebuilder out there and can say some of what I have seen was pretty bad. I guess that is why I was the first one contacted to build one of the original '63 Gran sports, 63 Z06's, and '69 TH400 L88's.

Now I will step down off my soap box, I don't want to sound foolish you know. When I come here all I see are thread posted by TBTR for the most part and it seems they are more like bait to get someone into a debate rather then sometime to really help. I usually stay away from them and will from this point forward. Those that I can help know how to reach me and pictures of my work are free for all to use. Debating what I know or recommend is not what I will get into, again it's not 5th grade anymore- too bad!

To all, have a happy and safe Thanksgiving. I am now going to work on my son's new house and build a custom 77 diff. Bye

 

[GTR1999]

opps- I see some typo's in the above- I'm foolish

 

[kpic]

opps- I see some typo's in the above- I'm foolish

You are far from being foolish.

A while back we exchanged posts on what caused howl in R&Ps. I answered with a good friend's R&P manufacturing knowledge.
His profession was a manufacturing engineer for Meritor's axle plant. You understood exactly what he meant about how a poor setup from the datum plane would cause howl. As that took knowledge and experience; you are hardly foolish..

TBTR's only contribution to this site is his ravings usually get answered by people who, unlike TBTR, actually know what they are talking about.

 

[toobroketoretire]

Getting It Uh "Worked In" Faster

First of all when you change your hypoid gear lube and friction modifier the clutch plates are already sopping wet with the old lube and friction modifier. As the clutch's steel drive plates scrub against the sintered iron driven plates every time the vehicle is turned and even when it's driven straight it only takes a few minutes to get the new lube and friction modifier uh "worked in". The short trip to the high school parking lot alone works it in so what's the point of doing the figure 8's after it's already worked in? To look like you're doing something beneficial? It's people like you who keep these ridiculous myths alive.

The factory didn't run figure 8's, the dealers didn't run figure 8's, I have never run figure 8's, so why do YOU feel it necessary to run figure 8's?

 

[Antz81]

The posi cornering does work to get the oil/additive into the clutch packs on each side, would driving normally do it- yes doing the 8's work - yes and gets it done faster. As far as looking foolish I can't say. I am alone in an empty parking lot typically and if there was anyone around we using end up talking about cars if we meet. This procedure might have even been mentioned in one of the old manuals back in the 60's or 70's I would have to go back and look but really I don't have the time for that.

I recall seeing somewhere in a manual but just can't find it. It said something like if the figure 8s weren't done then it could take up to 50miles to get the oil/additive in, and that the customer should be informed of this.

of corse even if I did find it TBTR would just say it's rubbish.

 

[toobroketoretire]

Mechanical Engineers Design Them

It's people like me who design these things and it's ignorant people who start myths about them. The so-called "positraction" is just a wet clutch that uses steel drive plates and sintered iron driven plates to apply torque and there's nothing "magical" about it. And leaving out the springs and apply plates or the belleville washers is a BIG mistake as it's those springs (a belleville washer is a type of spring) that pre-load the clutch plates so they grip immediately.

 

[GTR1999]

As I said before I believe you prefer to find someone to argue with. I will not be that person.

I am willing to bet I have built far more posi's without springs then you have ever been around. The springs and plates certainly work, however depending on how the clutches are set up will contribute to the common chattering. The clutches used in these units are all same material. I have taken apart new in the box posi's, removed the springs and check the spider lash, it was all over the place. I have "spring less" posi all over the world, in vettes with power ranges from 250- 900+hp. Your statement clearly shows you really don't have experience with this type of setup and few people do but you know what they are all out there in my builds and no one has called back yet. Your type of narrow minded thought process just doesn't cut it with me, not that it matters.

I have watched as you pulled the same things on CF and apparently you were driven off that site or left on your own? Again it doesn't matter, I will not bother with any of your threads in the future and will let you get in the last work on this thread if you like. It seems like the only one who listen to your thread advice is yourself.

I will build and run posi's without springs, run my tires at 30 psi, and ignore your comments. You can move on to debate with someone else I don't have the time to play internet tag with you.

I hope those "new" vette people you refer to who want to learn about their cars do their homework and not listen to some of your statements. I too work with new owners of these cars and have freely given my time in doing so.

'nuff said have your last word if you like and move on, I know I will.

 

[toobroketoretire]

It's The Sintered Iron Plates That Drive The Steel Plates....................Oops!

It just occurred to me it's the sintered iron plates that drive the steel plates. So please excuse my little brain fart. It has been about 4 years since I built a positraction differential.

 

[kpic]

It's people like me who design these things and it's ignorant people who start myths about them.

Yes, I've designed differentials (AKA carriers) in a design engineering group which is something you've never done in any way. shape or form. You've never designed anything and everyone here knows it.

How about telling us what design group you've ever designed anything for? Is such a minor statement too much of a challenge for you? Same as sharing what college you earned a degree in engineering from?

It just occurred to me it's the sintered iron plates that drive the steel plates. So please excuse my little brain fart.

Wow. this is unbelievable; everyone here finally agrees with you being a brain fart. Fortunately, most of us are too far away to smell it.