Question: possible upgrade paths...what do you think?

[Evolution1980]

So my girlfriend/fiancé said that after her business sells for a decent profit that she'd give me a gift of an upgrade to the vette.

The first thing that came to my mind was "Procharger" since that's been on my mind for a while now. But then I got to thinking what else I could do with $5-$6k or so. Besides needing a full plumbing setup for it, I'd also need to change the heads on my ZZ4 since they are currently producing 10:1 compression. I'm thinking I need somewhere in the low 9's if I'm going to force feed the engine.

Then I got to thinking, "Well, what about a new engine altogether, like the ZZ383?" that I've also had on my mind for a while. The ZZ4 is spec'd at 355HP/405Tq @ 10:1 compression. The ZZ383 is 425Hp/460Tq @ 9.7:1 comp. Not sure how much difference I'd notice.

I figure that if I go with a full engine replacement, I can sell the ZZ4 for a few bucks to offset the cost of the new engine, regardless of what I choose. I've also had a big block on my mind, but that requires more than just plug & play like a replacement small block. BUT...ya can get a fairly cheap 454 long block (cheaper than the ZZ383), decent torque with low compression and then force feed that.

So then I got to thinking...well, the ZZ4 is a good starting point for a build-up. What if I took it to a 383 or higher with OTC parts? Maybe a bore and stroke? AND a Procharger! :L

Or have someone build me a custom engine with the idea it's going to be force fed?

Other options would be to dump my 700R4 and put a 5 or 6 speed in the car. I've always said that a stick shift can make any car 'seem' faster when compared to it's automagic equivalent. I've never really been happy with the 700R4. I'm a stickshift kinda guy. The only reason I went to the R4 was because it was a good upgrade from my busted up TH350 and I couldn't afford the extra coin for the manual trans at the time. So maybe I keep my current setup and just get the manual trans that I've always wanted? (That may not be acceptable to the "other half" since she doesn't drive stickshift...yet. We're working on that. :L) And my linelock usage gets a bit trickier with a manual trans.

One of the issue I have to keep in mind and that I always tell others is that when ya increase power requirements, ya need to be sure the rest of the drivetrain is up to the task. I've heard stories about the rear end of the late C3's being weak. Thankfully with all the thrashing I've thrown at mine I've never had a problem with it *knock on fiberglass*. I'd hate to drop all the money into mo' power and then have my rear end splatter all over the street because it broke free before the tires did. Hmmm....

Thoughts from everyone?

 

[TimAT]

I'll swap you my wife for your girlfriend.. Just so you know, my wife is cute, but broke.

Really, you should look at places like Ohio Crank, Steve Schmidt, Scott Schafiroff, even Reher-Morrison, they all build big inch small blocks.

As far as the rear end, there are ways to make it tougher, but it'll never be bulletproof. You get some real sticky tires, decent HP and launch it, things will break. I've got 11-1/2 Goodyears and 4.11 gears with a 4 speed, and I worry about it sticking.

There are lots of ways to make big HP/TQ numbers, be reliable, and not require the constant fiddling to keep it on point. I've been looking at doing an LS swap into the 77. Find a crashed something with LS-2 or LS-3 power, and strip all the harness, dash, A/C, just everything I could possibly need and dropping that in there. Complete.

 

[Evolution1980]

I'll swap you my wife for your girlfriend.. Just so you know, my wife is cute, but broke.

This just in from my girl, "Ehh I do like the occasional spin behind the wheel but putting in stick shift wouldn't entirely break my heart..." Thanks for the offer to switch, Tim, but I think I'll keep her. :L (Your post reminds me of a joke.... "I wanted to get a new car for my wife but no one would take her in on trade.")

I've been looking at doing an LS swap into the 77. Find a crashed something with LS-2 or LS-3 power, and strip all the harness, dash, A/C, just everything I could possibly need and dropping that in there. Complete.

Eh, the only 'used' motor I'd want is my own. Otherwise, without a complete tear down and inspection (additional money), you won't know what you're starting with. Also, the potential max power output is higher with carb'd engines than with FI'd ones. And I don't mind my carb setup.

Back in Feb'09 HotRod magazine had a write-up about cost effective mods to boost the ZZ4. (here) Kinda what I was thinking in terms of over the counter parts upgrade. Maybe those AND a manual trans?
Damn, man, I dunno...that's why I put the question out there.

It's gonna be a while before the business sells (a couple months at minimum), so I have time. Plus, site activity is a bit slower this time of year, so I've got plenty of time to get more replies and to continue researching.

 

[Crimson Thunder]

My vote would be a 427 small block from one of the many engine builders out there(Tim mentioned a few). A Pro-Charger would be cool but you have too much compression (I have the opposite problem)that would have to be fixed with a new set of heads which would push the cost over 10k.

 

[Hib Halverson]

A blow-through, centrifugal supercharger on a ZZ4 will put you at about 600-hp.

That said, you need to budget more than 5-6 grand if you are planning to change heads, install the blower and...not forget a different hood, a Holley modified to work with a blow-through system, chassis dyno work to calibrate the carb and mods for cooling including a charge air cooler.

You'll also need a different transmission to handle 600 horses. As for the rear axle, in your car is an early version of the Dana 44 axle used in 86-96 C4 manuals. It might be ok with 600 horses but that would depend on the car's duty cycle. Street use with street tires would probably be ok given a beefed-up limited slip, better fasteners and the right lube but if your going racing, forget it. You'll need a lot of mods or a different axle all together.

I'd say you need to figure 10,000 bucks to do a supercharged C3 the right way.

 

[6880 Mike]

My advice would be to use the money to take your fiancee some place special. A cruise, Vegas, Europe, etc.

Money well spent...Trust me.

 

[Evolution1980]

A blow-through, centrifugal supercharger on a ZZ4 will put you at about 600-hp.

Looking for a modest 500 or so. (less than 4psi boost if I don't change heads, 8psi or so if I drop compression with different heads. May have to be changing pistons too since hypereutectic don't seem to have great feedback with high HP / forcefed applications.)

That said, you need to budget more than 5-6 grand if you are planning to change heads, install the blower and...not forget a different hood, a Holley modified to work with a blow-through system, chassis dyno work to calibrate the carb and mods for cooling including a charge air cooler.

My factory QJet won't work? (jetting & other calibrations aside)
Hood clearance is no problem. Already have the 4" raised cowl. Rough measurements already taken show me with room to spare.
Chassis dyno time is expected.
Charge air cooler is not absolutely mandatory, but is highly expected/suggested. Air to air should suffice for my needs.

You'll also need a different transmission to handle 600 horses.

I have a built up 700R4 from BTO that is rated for up to 550. Beyond that?

As for the rear axle, in your car is an early version of the Dana 44 axle used in 86-96 C4 manuals. It might be ok with 600 horses but that would depend on the car's duty cycle. Street use with street tires would probably be ok given a beefed-up limited slip, better fasteners and the right lube but if your going racing, forget it. You'll need a lot of mods or a different axle all together.

My 'racing' consists of a once-every-2-3 years at the drag strip for a few passes.
Occasional pedal-mashing on the highway is about as much as I do otherwise.

I'd say you need to figure 10,000 bucks to do a supercharged C3 the right way.

I'm certainly not missing the qualifying words "the right way".

Note: My replies above are based on the info I've gleaned from Procharger's website pertaining to carb'd Chevy installs and from others on the web with ZZ4's and prochargers. My answers are not from any type of actual hands-on knowledge or formal schooling on the topic. (That's why I'm posting here!)

 

[Evolution1980]

My advice would be to use the money to take your fiancee some place special. A cruise, Vegas, Europe, etc.

The fiancé is the one footing the bill. It's her gift to me.
Putting the money into the car is just one of the options I'm kicking around.

 

[Crimson Thunder]

Hib is correct,this guy has over 10k in his.

 

[Evolution1980]

Hib is correct,this guy has over 10k in his.

$10K just to add a SC to a ZZ4 engine? Or is that for complete engine mods to accomodate a way higher power rating? I mean, if you completely rebuild the engine bigger/stronger to accommodate bigger numbers, then yeah, I could easily see $10K.
Is that the Procharger P-1SC unit? It looks like the next model up based on it's size...the F-series. Also, it looks like he's got some extra custom work done there.
I'm surprised though that he'd put his air intake right over the headers which is arguably the hottest area under the hood. With all that work, I'd think he'd have run his intake elsewhere.


What's that coming off the intake near the carb? Looks like breather valve or muffler of some type.

Also, if I go forcefed, I'd probably go to electric fans to clear up some real estate in front of the engine so I have room for plumbing.

 

[TimAT]

What's that coming off the intake near the carb? Looks like breather valve or muffler of some type.

From the location, I'd say that's a blow-off. Dumps boost when you come off the gas.

 

[Crimson Thunder]

In a Shark body that is about the best you can do for the air intake. Tim was correct about the blow off valve. I talked to this owner for a long time and he said it took a bit of fabrication to get the Pro-Charger to work in a C3. I can't remember if its the P1sc or the D1sc but it does put out almost 600 hp to the wheels. After buying the supercharger, heads, fuel pump, boost referenced fuel regulator,new blow thru carb, intake manifold,MSD boost retard, wide LSA cam, and all the misc stuff you will be close to $10000.00.

 

[GTR1999]

As for the 80-82 diff, it's not going to last long with 500-600hp and some abuse.They were the worse diff's used in vettes.

I've built a few super 10 bolts for guys with the 80-82 who want a stronger then stock diff. However a super 10 is only good to about 500-550 maybe 600 if you're careful. When you get into the 550-600 + hp range then the 12 bolt is the way to go,however it will require using an iron cover not the batwing you have now. The super 10 will bolt to the batwing but not the 12 bolt. You would have to fab mounts like the earlier cars, it can be done but you're looking deep cash outlay. Then the next weakest link are the 17 spline outer axles and shaft. All said and done to do a 12 bolt,shafts, 31 spine axles you're into $6500 ball park! But it will hold up to 1000 hp.

Maybe that trip on vacation with Gf is a better deal!

 

[KANE]

So my girlfriend/fiancé said that after her business sells for a decent profit that she'd give me a gift of an upgrade to the vette...

Dre-

Having done the swaps on two C3s...

I'd go find a late year LT1 (95-97) and begin the mods with an LT4 hotcam swap. Then... get a 6 speed and swap it in. While you are at it... the T56 works well with a 3.73 tied to it.

That would make your Vette loads of fun (6spd), dead reliable (EFI), and fast (I've seen easily 350hp to the wheels when built right- tie that to the 3.73... ZOOM- without hand grenadeing the rear end).


Regardless... HAVE FUN WITH IT! We only get one ticket to ride this coaster in life.

 

[AGVI]

598 UltraStreet Low Deck High Performance Chevrolet Engine

775 Horsepower for 12 Grand!

 

[Evolution1980]

598 UltraStreet Low Deck High Performance Chevrolet Engine

775 Horsepower for 12 Grand!

That's no deal! It doesn't come with a carb! :L

 

[6880 Mike]

...The fiancé is the one footing the bill. It's her gift to me. ...

I understand that. I repeat my previous suggestion.

 

[Clive]

My Suggestion

Your car will already get you in trouble with law enforcement even if you drive it the way the designers made it. After all, what's the US speed limit, 65 MPH? What does it matter if you can do 0-60 in 5 seconds or less, the rice burner and most American cars ahead of you can't do it as fast as you.

Take the money, spoil your generous lady with it and she'll always remember how much you love her rather than upgrading your car. Cars come and go, your lady is a one in a million keeper!

Cheers!

 

[catbert]

LS7oot:

 

[Evolution1980]

Your car will already get you in trouble with law enforcement even if you drive it the way the designers made it. After all, what's the US speed limit, 65 MPH? What does it matter if you can do 0-60 in 5 seconds or less, the rice burner and most American cars ahead of you can't do it as fast as you.

Take the money, spoil your generous lady with it and she'll always remember how much you love her rather than upgrading your car. Cars come and go, your lady is a one in a million keeper!

It's already her money. She offered it to me to get me something. Plus, she enjoys the car too!

Why do something like "Vacation!"??? That's a couple days/week of enjoyment with memories that will fade over time.
Upgrading the car allows us to have enjoyment every day we take it out and make fresh memories at the same time!