Putting in a new Camshaft...any warnings, words of wisdom etc...

[Mako]

Well here it is!

Well cool

Make sure you read the instructions in that cam kit and follow them carefully. don't be shy with the cam lube on the journals and the lobes either.

CYa!
Mako

 

[sscam69]

Ok what happened to the original plan?!

He he he. I decided to go ahead and get the cam and purchase AFR 195 street heads.

I talked to my pops about the deal and he was trying to figure out a way that we could get the whole setup at once. The he said

"can't you get some heads for $200 or something (not serious of course)"

and I tell him

"yeah right you can't even get some replacement heads for that much!"

So he says "well I'll help you out with the cam and the necessary parts to do the swap, but the heads will have to wait"

He says " but there is on point to put that kind of cam w/o good heads"

I said "yeah I know but I would rather put the cam and buy the best heads, and just put up with the stock heads until I have the money for them"

He said "alright then"

so thats the plan. I am going to go with the AFR heads. I even looked up a combo with this cam (XE268)/Heads (AFR 195)/ and intake (Performer RPM) and the output was something like 420Hp@6K/ over 400ftlbs @4.5K

I hope to have a job pretty soon, and I mean a REAL job as a manufacturing engineer locally. I applied for a manufacturing job today and I was told they were hiring and as awkward as it sounds when I got home and checked my email I was sent an email by Honda R&D. So right now I have my fingers crossed. When I get a real job then I will purchase the heads.

 

[sscam69]

OMG JHL

A PINK CADDY!!!

TURBO T/A!!!!

you have had some nice cars/boats:L

 

[Mako]

Ok what happened to the original plan?!

He he he. I decided to go ahead and get the cam and purchase AFR 195 street heads.

I talked to my pops about the deal and he was trying to figure out a way that we could get the whole setup at once. The he said

"can't you get some heads for $200 or something (not serious of course)"

and I tell him

"yeah right you can't even get some replacement heads for that much!"

So he says "well I'll help you out with the cam and the necessary parts to do the swap, but the heads will have to wait"

He says " but there is on point to put that kind of cam w/o good heads"

I said "yeah I know but I would rather put the cam and buy the best heads, and just put up with the stock heads until I have the money for them"

He said "alright then"

so thats the plan. I am going to go with the AFR heads. I even looked up a combo with this cam (XE268)/Heads (AFR 195)/ and intake (Performer RPM) and the output was something like 420Hp@6K/ over 400ftlbs @4.5K

I hope to have a job pretty soon, and I mean a REAL job as a manufacturing engineer locally. I applied for a manufacturing job today and I was told they were hiring and as awkward as it sounds when I got home and checked my email I was sent an email by Honda R&D. So right now I have my fingers crossed. When I get a real job then I will purchase the heads.

Well normally one would buy the heads, port them if desired, flow bench test them and only then go cam shopping.

FWIW, AFR's require porting, they rarely if ever in my experience flow the advertised numbers right out of the box. Also, there are oil drain back issues with them too. They make excellent power once ported though, and the 195cc AFR head is an excellent choice for a street motor.

Seriously consider sticking with Chevy heads. The Vortec heads have a lot going for them and they will run properly out of the box.

Unfortunately the head gaskets in that kit are likely not correct for aluminum heads. Running alloy heads on an iron block normally requires a specialized head gasket to compensate for the different rates of thermal expansion between iron and alloy.

I'd contact Fel-Pro for some tech advice on that.

I know your excited to get this project moving, but with due respect, your kinda going at it bassackwards. The heads are the key component to choose first, and all else follows on from there. You don't buy heads to fit a cam in other words...

Select and order the heads. Have them flow tested and see if the numbers look good for your power goals. If they come up short, then have them ported or buy a different set from someone else.

Only then do you select a cam based on your head flow numbers, transmission type and vacuum brake requirements (and oh yeah, smog tests if you have it in your area).

You then select a valve spring compatible with the cam lift and rev range your going to run. Bad things will happen if Mr. Valve meets Mr. Piston.

Did you get a new timing change set in that kit?

I'm still of the opinion a pair of S/R Torquer is the way you should go, but it's not my car or my wallet, so I don't get a vote ;-P

Good luck!
Mako

 

[sscam69]

FWIW, AFR's require porting, they rarely if ever in my experience flow the advertised numbers right out of the box

:confused Their 100% I/E/chamber CNC ported.

rarely if ever in my experience flow the advertised numbers right out of the box

They've been independently tested and flowed at or more than specified.

The Vortec heads have a lot going for them and they will run properly out of the box

They'll cost about $800 to get them to "Truly bolt on" to a SBC. I am confused though on those heads. The have pressed in studs and the lift is limited by which one. The spring or the fact its got a pressed in stud?:confused. I called SDPC about the heads and they just swap the springs and say they can handle .55" lift:confused I thought the lift was limited by the pressed in stud. Their the next best thing to AFR.

Unfortunately the head gaskets in that kit are likely not correct for aluminum heads

I know, by that time I'll have a real job and probably pull the engine and build it myself so I know exactly whats been done to it and use the necessary gaskets/parts. I couldn't do the initial rebuild myself because of

1. Lack of tools
2. In the middle of semester and school was VERY VERY time consuming
3. Lack of funds to make mistakes
4. Needed a daily driver quick and didn't have the luxury of putting together a high performance engine.

I know your excited to get this project moving, but with due respect, your kinda going at it bassackwards.

Yeah I know but I also agree with your methodology. I figured since the combo has been proven and the heads (AFR) have the flow to support the cam, why not?

You then select a valve spring compatible with the cam lift and rev range your going to run. Bad things will happen if Mr. Valve meets Mr. Piston.

Already taken into consideration

I'm still of the opinion a pair of S/R Torquer is the way you should go

I don't think the S/R torqurers are all that great for what I am shooting for. At least out of the box. Yeah I can get them ported but to get a 'TRULY' good porting job by an experienced person is going to cost me the same or less as going with the AFR heads that are already ported.

I have seen engines put out more power with smaller cams with the AFR heads than the S/R Torquers, out of the box. I don't have the cash to get them ported (S/R Torquers) and would want to go with the aluminum heads because of the higher compression ratio that can be achieved on pump gas (91 octane around here).

The power increased from running a higher compression even with the energy being extracted by the aluminum material is better than the lower compression with more heat being retained in with iron heads. At least thats my experience.

The AFR heads are an investment for me. I will be using these heads on a 400ci engine with a small blower on it and I was going to use the methodolgy you explained above i.e. call up cam manufactuers etc. to help me meet my goals.

There is no point buying two sets of heads when I really only want one

 

[sscam69]

Mako

Keep in mind that what flows here will flow differently somewhere else. People have different setups even though they test, at least I hope, at the 28' standard.

Flow doesnt mean much, it matters when you slap those puppies on an engine and not a flow bench to really show WHAT KIND OF FLOW you are truly getting.

AFR's have been proven time and time again.

FWIW the same cam and intake were used with S/R T's and the power was in the low to mid 300's. I have to check on that to be sure but I will provide proof.

Frank

 

[Mako]

:confused Their 100% I/E/chamber CNC ported.

Ahh, your buying the ported flavor, got it. I though you were getting as cast to save $.

They'll cost about $800 to get them to "Truly bolt on" to a SBC. I am confused though on those heads. The have pressed in studs and the lift is limited by which one. The spring or the fact its got a pressed in stud?:confused. I called SDPC about the heads and they just swap the springs and say they can handle .55" lift:confused I thought the lift was limited by the pressed in stud. Their the next best thing to AFR.

Max lift is a funtion of two things: Spring binding and valve guides (ignoring the piston for the moment ). .550 lift is plenty for a street machine. The heads likely don't flow any better much over .550 anyways, so more lift is pointless.

I know, by that time I'll have a real job and probably pull the engine and build it myself so I know exactly whats been done to it and use the necessary gaskets/parts. I couldn't do the initial rebuild myself because of

Money is Good ;-)

1. Lack of tools
2. In the middle of semester and school was VERY VERY time consuming
3. Lack of funds to make mistakes
4. Needed a daily driver quick and didn't have the luxury of putting together a high performance engine.

Yeah I know but I also agree with your methodology. I figured since the combo has been proven and the heads (AFR) have the flow to support the cam, why not?

If your buying a known good combo, then Never Mind

I don't think the S/R torqurers are all that great for what I am shooting for. At least out of the box. Yeah I can get them ported but to get a 'TRULY' good porting job by an experienced person is going to cost me the same or less as going with the AFR heads that are already ported.

On that your correct. I was assuming you still were working under the $700 cylinder head budget. AFR's as cast pretty much suck.

The power increased from running a higher compression even with the energy being extracted by the aluminum material is better than the lower compression with more heat being retained in with iron heads. At least thats my experience.

I'm running 10.2ish:1 CR on 91 octane RFG gas on my 383 at 36* total timing.

The AFR heads are an investment for me. I will be using these heads on a 400ci engine with a small blower on it and I was going to use the methodolgy you explained above i.e. call up cam manufactuers etc. to help me meet my goals.

Ok, given that, get the 210CC heads, not the 190s. Save up for a full roller cam setup too.

There is no point buying two sets of heads when I really only want one

Amen!

CYa!
Mako

 

[JHL]

SS

Chevy High Performance ran a test on 65 different cylinderheads with some interesting comments on head selection for various applications. It is worth a read.

CHP Head Test

Re the cars, I have had numerous American cars over the years but eventually saw the light, mortgaged the house and bought an 80 4sp about 10 years ago then a few inbetween untill I bought the current 81.

J.

 

[sscam69]

Well the cam is in I will post picks soon.

All I need to do now is put in the pushrods, rockers and adjust accordingly. Then bolt up all the accesories.

I will post some pics later, I have to resize them but don't have the time at the moment.

I started on friday and the weather was nice but saturday and sunday absolutely sucked!!

I had a hard time trying to get the valve spring locks to give way on the intake side. The exhaust was easy. Springs are in etc.

And I found a few interesting details about the rebuild on my enginead details to come.

Frank

 

[sscam69]

Everything has almost gone like a textbook.

No problems in pulling/installing the cam etc.

I bought some nice shiny new bolts for the intake and some for the exhaust. Just some decorations. And some other odds and ends to help with a cleaner engine bay.

I also pulled the condensor for the A/C along with the A/C compressor. One of the aluminum tubing had a hole in it so I was going to have to swap it all out anyways. Oh thats one of the few details that I have learned about the rebuildad ad.

Everything is almost on. I have not taken pics of the last stuff because my friend got fined $300 bucks by the city last week. Now I am crappying bricks because I don't want and can't afford a fine like that so I am trying to get things together a quickly as I can before I get paid a visit.

I turned the crank by hand a few times to see if nothing was hitting, at least the best you can with that method, and everything seemed O.K. The dots on the gears lined up perfect after several turns.

The only thing left for tommorow is to replace the spark plug my brother broke and hook up the exhaust and a few other details.

I hope by tommorow afternoon to fire it up the car. I'll keep you guys posted.

I am stoked!!



Frank

here are some teaser pics.

 

[sscam69]

Here is a pic of the guy on the other side of the computer.

This is me and my fiance.

At this point the whole front end is gutted. The only thing left was to remove the harmonic balancer and the intake and heads.

 

[sscam69]

Here is a comparison of the springs already on the heads with the new 981 comp cams springs.

 

[JHL]

Hi SS

Looks like your girl is doing a good job there !!!

T-Shirt`s in November as well, I have already been scrapping ice a couple of mornings and my garage is like an icebox there won`t be any work done on my Vette untill about March next year. We have an office in Houston I must enquire about a job.

:cool

J.

 

[sscam69]

Broke in the cam

but didn't have time to tune the engine. I just broke in the cam with enough timing and tuned the carb so that I could move the car.

Phew now its in a different position just in case the inspector comes knocking.

DAMN I can feel a difference. This thing is pulling pretty good or at the very least better than before. There is still a lot left in it I just need to tune it and start adjusting jets etc.

After pulling off the heads, lets just say they are good enough to keep the car running but not much more than that.

Now I am crossing my fingers for those AFR's. I know those things will really wake up this engine.

He he on a side note I took it out just to get a small test drive and this Mustang wanted some! I WAS SSSSOOOOOO tempted but I figured it was to premature for that, so I let him go. Maybe next time!

Frank.

p.s. I will add more but have a lot of other things I have to catch up on now.

 

[sscam69]

Ok well he is the story on saturday-Tuesday

By friday afternoon I had pretty much everything out of the engine. The only thing left was to remove the cam, heads and intake off the engine. Saturday morning I woke up early to get started in hopes of being able replace the springs, chase the threads on the heads and block and bolt them up by the afternonn. No such luck. Removing the locks on the intake valves were a major PITA!! For some reason they were pretty tuff to get loose, but with enough elbow grease I was able to remove them so that I could replace the spring.

As a future note to those that are going to do this rent/buy the spring remover that looks like a HUGE C-clamp. Trust me this will make your life a WHOLE lot easier. I think it holds the valve and pushes down on the retainer. I had one that just compressed the spring and you had to push the valve up to get the lock to come out. When its stuck, its a major PITA to get loose.

Now for the mad part.

I removed the heads and got them inside the house ASAP so that I could cover up the engine. I just got a lot of rags and plastic bags and wrapped the engine with them. I didn't have a chance to look at the cylinders.

1. When I removed the rocker study to clean the threads I noticed that there was gunk in there. And I mean old gunk giving and indication that this guy never removed them to clean them outad
2. The threads weren't chased or cleaned out in the heads. This was clear after I removed the boltad and was having trouble bolting on the new intake manifold
3. The head bolts did not have sealant on the ends to prevent water from the coolant passages from coming up the threadsad
4. I chased the threads in the block and they were clean for the most part. But then again the block was hot tanked.

When I had the heads ready to bolt on I went outside to prep the block by chasing the threads and removing old head gasket material. This is what really set me off. As I was removing the gasket material I noticed that the cylinders were scored in exactly the same manner that it was prior to the rebuildmad. I could see that they had honed the cylinders but the marks were still there!!ad.

So what I am guessing is that these guys did not overbore the engine. All they did was hone down the cylinders in hopes of removing the scars. IT DIDN'T WORK!!!ad. Like the saying goes "if you want something done right, do it yourself".

I also learned that they damaged the aluminum lines that connect to the air compressor for the A/C. The were fractured so I am going to have to replace them. I just removed them for now.

Besides all that

The engine fired right up with out many problems. I checked for any kind of leaks from anything. I have an exhaust leak but that can easily be fixed. I broke in the cam for 25 min @2500 rpm. I put engine assembly lube on all the valvetrain and on the cam where necessary. I also used dino 10w-30 oil as suggested by the comp cam instructions.

Everything seems to be in good working order. I am pretty proud of myself considering this was the first time I have done anything like this.

This sure beats the Legos I used to play with when I was a kid!

Whats the game plan now? Well there is no point anymore doing anything to the top end without taking care of the bottom. So IF i can get a real job really soon. I will start saving up for a 383. AND THIS TIME I AM GOING TO DO THE BUILD MYSELF!

All forged rotating assembly with blueprinted block and since I already have most of the top end except good heads It will stay.

I am thinking about adding a centrifugal blower. Thats definitely down the road but I have not seen people on this forum with one of those. I know there have been people that probably had done it but I have not seen one documented. I know Vortech has a kit now for carburated engines. The had one before but it was for marine apps. Now they have one with brackets for vehicles.

Maybe I will be the first on this forum to try one of these?! I'll make sure I document this real well!

sorry for the long post, had to vent a bit

Frank