Welcome to the Corvette Forums at the Corvette Action Center!

Rough Idle

  • Thread starter Thread starter 1978L48jafo
  • Start date Start date
1

1978L48jafo

Guest
Looking for suggestions:(58,000) Low mileage 1978 L48 compression check indicates # 3 cylinder 80 psi the rest are 180psi. I checked number 3 wet and it made no diff. Given the low mileage should the lower end be rebuilt too?? Even though only one head is bad I plan on pulling both and having them gone over. Any suggestions?

Also considering a more modern cam and roller rockers 1:5?
 
I'm going to assume that everything is basically stock, including the low 8.5:1 static compression ratio (judging from the 180 PSI dynamic compression reading and assuming a stock cam). If the bottom end is tight, I would not hessitate to just do a valve job. Assuming that you are going to do the work yourself, what's the worst that could happen? You spend some money on the valve job and then have to go back in later for a complete rebuild, so you really haven't lost much, other than your time in labor and the valve job.

Have you thought about maybe upgrading the cam while you're in there? With a stock configuration, a nice little Summit 1100 or 1101 would make a real smiley face difference on the low end . . .

Just my humble opinions . . .

Ron
 
Thanks Ron,
Yes is a stock L48 and runs great except for a rough idle. I would like to gain some performance for my efforts. I will lookup the cams you recommended.
Thanks
John
 
I would agree with Ron, rebuild the heads and leave the bottom for another day. If you want to build more power then go for the bottom now.
 
You obviously have a bad exhaust valve. I agree with everyone else, do the heads. With the low miliage the bottom end should be in good shape and will hold up to a valve job.
 
Update on rough Idle

I pulled my engine apart this weekend. Could the engineers have made a more difficult arrangement to work on. Visually I don't see any damage on the valves. But this is curious there was black crystal like debris built up in the valley next to the head and block seam of the bad cylinder. (the rest of the valley is clean) It makes me wonder if the head gasket was leaking??

Does anyone know if the air conditioner condenser needs to come out to replace the cam shaft?

Are new cam shaft bearings a must?

Can the oil pan be removed with the lower engine still in the car? It looks like it would clear but nothing else has gone easy....lol

Thanks all I do appreciate the advice.
r/John M
 
John M,

I read somewhere that that the steering idler arm must be disconnected and let hang if you want to drop the engine oil pan while the block is installed in the vehicle.

The black cristal is oil coke (also refered as oil coking). When oil presence is exposed to a relatively warm area (such as the head) it dries-out (or cooks) and leaves a residue black cristal.


Radiator and condenser (heat exchanger behind radiator) must come out.

Is your aim just to fix it as to limit any further power decay or damage to the engine? If so, then you can cheat. Abreviated procedure: pull the exhaust manifold on the left side [aft looking forward], pull head on left side, and if you find a lip on the cylinder then should pull the complete engine and rework everything.

If that is not the case, then cheat by dropping the oil pan, push bad piston through the top, and replace piston rings on # 3 piston.

In the first situation, buy a crate engine if time is critical for you or you just don't want to bother with it. If not, then pull engine and rework it yourself.

In the second situation, this can buy you time until you decide what type of engine you want and if you still dependent on the vette for transportation purposes.

You can pay for it now or pay for it later...but you'll pay...:L
 
I wish I caught this thread sooner jafo. If there was a head gasket leak, both cylinders (normally) would be low on compression. Because, the narrowest part of the head gasket is at the next cylinder. Therefore, you would have to have a lot of material burned away to make one cylinder lose compression all the way out to the exhaust headers. I can think of five quick variables to cylinder compression loss. One is...too tight of a valve adjustment. Second....a failed lifter. Three.....a worn or flat cam lobe(s). Four...damaged ring(s). Five....collapsed/bent push rod.
This is where having a, "leak down test" can pin-point both valves or ring problems.
You are saying that the valves look ok. Did you pour water (safest test) inside the intake/exhaust ports to watch for leaks from either valve? Will they hold back the fluid? Since you have the head off already, rotate the crank and measure the lifter height against the other lifters. Are they all proportion in readings? This will tell if you have a bad cam lobe. What condition does the #3 cylinder wall look like? Is the cylinder wall gouged or scored with vertical lines? This could be your damaged area?
Cam bearings milage is pretty low. You could almost pass replacing them. They'd be nice and broken in....less drag.
 
Thanks cntrhub & GerryLP,

I tried the wet compression test on the bad cylinder so I had convinced myself I needed a valve job. I have heard of the water test I will give that a try today. I agree with your comment on the head gasket failing between cylinders. I am just trying to make sense of the symptoms.

The cylinders all look just fine.

GerryLP you wrote"The black crystal is oil coke (also referred as oil coking). When oil presence is exposed to a relatively warm area (such as the head) it dries-out (or cooks) and leaves a residue black crystal."

are you saying that this indicates ring problems? Pardon me if I am being dense I have never seen this condition before. I thought the head gasket might have failed and it leaked in to the valley area. Are you say this is a positive indication the rings are bad?

Thanks guys I don't depend upon my vette as a daily driver so if the lower end needs to go to the machine shop so be it.

John M AKA jafo
 
58 (miles) divided by 24 (years span) = 2,416.6 miles driven a year. You have a stuck ring in #3cylinder......and I'm sticking to it.
Might as well pull that piston and see if my guess was right? If that's the case, pull all the pistons and re-ring the lower end.
If you took a... "wet compression test"....how much more psi was built up? I don't think you hit over 100psi (another guess). I'm sure a fresh valve job would help at this point. When the engine is turned off, some valves will stay open. This is where corrosion and rust, (condensation) will eat on the valve face and seats. Having the car sit for a long period of time, the engine will fall victim to a few seasonal changes. The valves might show "pitting" at the 45 degree angle. Pull a few valves and check for this condition.
 
are you saying that this indicates ring problems? Pardon me if I am being dense I have never seen this condition before. I thought the head gasket might have failed and it leaked in to the valley area. Are you say this is a positive indication the rings are bad?

Not at all... :eyerole I was just defining for you the source of that black cristal-like material you found.

You didn't have blow-by (or crackcase venting) through the dip stick tube or other location, did you?

Its my opinion ( and everyone has one) that a compression test (dry and oil-wetted) is the best way to determine piston ring ailment in blow-by situations. Disconnect the coil ignition center wire. Tap from the cylinder (dry) with a compression gauge and obtain your reference reading by rotating the engine with the starter a few revolutions, then add a few cc's of oil into the cylinder and take another compression reading.

For an engine suffering from blow-by: If the second reading is higher, then the piston rings are causing your blow-by (the oil helps seal the pressure bleed between the rings and the cylinder walls). If the second reading is about the same (within a few pounds of pressure) then your valves (not seating properly for example) are causing the blow-by condition.

However, a dry compression test tells you that your cylinder compression is not holding up. The leak down test is also excellent, and let me tell you that cntrhub has very good points :D And I noticed the condensation effects he speaks of on my 148,000 mile L81 engine. That's how I ended with practically a new engine in my car (I paid the core charge on my original block to maintain the stock option).

If you can afford it though, then take your time working on this one and buy yourself an engine rebuild kit and rework the engine...it'll be cheaper in the long run rather than placing a band-aid now. At the evry least check all journals diameters, radii, and the like, and replace all the gaskets.

Bad cams where a little less than common in those years (and there used to be a chance to recover part of your cost when the cam went flat from GM), but it did happened to me at 33,000 miles. With the heads on, one can check this by measuring the lift at the rockers and compare with the others. A flat cam will show in some cases nearly half the lift lost.

Now that you have the heads off, then check everything exposed for serviceability. Everyone will cheer you on and help you along the way. :CAC
 
"If you took a... "wet compression test"....how much more psi was built up? I don't think you hit over 100psi (another guess). "


I performed a wet check on #3 and there was no difference, the engine still pumped up to 60 psi. However you are right in that the car was setting for a lot of years semi protected in a old Leaky old barn so it is very likely the valves not seated were damaged on their seating surface.

There is no blow by, the car idled rough, I probably could have lived with it another season but I just had enough. Vacuum readings (low 8 and jumpy 8-12) were my first indications was the first indication that the problem was other the my inability to set the quadrajet up properly. I followed up the vacuum with a compression check to confirm. I only performed the wet check on the bad cylinder.

Here is a url to a source for heads I am considering They sound great. Based on the local prices I am being quoted it would only take a few bad valves or seats to make ordering new a better deal. Matching numbers are just block and body right??

http://www.carshopinc.com/heads.shtml

Thank you both for your help, I have limited space in my garage so I don't have a engine hoist and stand handy but let me see what I can scrounge up. A buddy offer the loan of his equipment I just need to drive to VA to pick them up.

:duh
 
Heads must also match. They have their own code to match the car. With that kind of milage, you'll want to keep practically every part on that car. Keep all the hardware, and don't even change that! If this car is bone stock, and no other modifications were done to it, keep it that way.
If the car is in pristine, and in original shape, it's worth preserving it. I've seen butchered vehicles that are valueless with less miles on them.
 
Thanks Cntrhub, My L48 is low mileage but unfortunately far from pristine. I have had it for about five years. I try to approach each problem and leave it as good or better than original. I checked this evening and the block does match the body VIN. I guess I not sure the issue with the heads. It is well documented that they are poorly designed and low to no performance. I would think that as long as I held on to the originals no potential buyer could possibly object to a performance improvement. I appreciate your comments and I will give further thought.
R/Jafo
 

Corvette Forums

Not a member of the Corvette Action Center?  Join now!  It's free!

Help support the Corvette Action Center!

Supporting Vendors

Dealers:

MacMulkin Chevrolet - The Second Largest Corvette Dealer in the Country!

Advertise with the Corvette Action Center!

Double Your Chances!

Our Partners

Back
Top Bottom