Thermostat poll, 160 vs 180

[ATL 84]

The reason the 4+3 does not like the 160 is it is not set to operate until the temp is 174-176. The Hyper. was not made for the manual, only the auto. I found this out the same way you did. wasted a good bit of cash on a chip that is not used at it's potential. You do get the HP hit.

 

[Louis Bartay]

The reason the 4+3 does not like the 160 is it is not set to operate until the temp is 174-176. The Hyper. was not made for the manual, only the auto. I found this out the same way you did. wasted a good bit of cash on a chip that is not used at it's potential. You do get the HP hit.

I was lucky as my Hyper-Tech it is a hand held Programmer that I can change different settings with, a plus with the 96 OBDII computer. I went with the Hyper because at the time my Vette was still in warrenty and it stores the Stock program and I can reload the stock setting back before the car would go to the GM dealer for warrenty work, then change it back. My Hyper was specific as they had one for a Auto and a second one for manual trans.

 

[speedmaster4]

well, its good to know others share my misery...thanx

hyper has diff model numbers for manual or auto, mine is right number but not right part apparently

does hyper have an e-mail address ? ...i cant find it..their phone tech is nothing but frustration...i have steered at least a half dozen of my guys away from them due to this lack of support--guess they dont care

been vigorously avoiding burning my own chips,time to learn i s'pose

 

[Louis Bartay]

well, its good to know others share my misery...thanx

hyper has diff model numbers for manual or auto, mine is right number but not right part apparently

does hyper have an e-mail address ? ...i cant find it..their phone tech is nothing but frustration...i have steered at least a half dozen of my guys away from them due to this lack of support--guess they dont care

been vigorously avoiding burning my own chips,time to learn i s'pose

WWW.hypertech-inc.com is the web site, sorry to here you had problems but my computer is different and I have had nothing but GOOD Luck with both of my prorammers as my LT1 94 TA OBDI works Great.(96 LT4 Vettte) I have had them for several years and when I changed the rear gears on the TA I just plugged it in and followed the book that came with it to correct the speedometer. I called them and had no customer service problems but that was last year when I changed the gears.

 

[speedmaster4]

thanx for the hyper info...will try em...suspect they have given up on "chip" market due to numerous competitors

my daily driver is a 94 lt-1 buick roaddie...owners manual sez regular gas and i've been thinkin (danger!!) IF i switched to hi-test and changed fuel/spark if it would be worthwhile....seen hyper adverts but not too anxious to play with them again...did you note better perf??

 

[Louis Bartay]

thanx for the hyper info...will try em...suspect they have given up on "chip" market due to numerous competitors

my daily driver is a 94 lt-1 buick roaddie...owners manual sez regular gas and i've been thinkin (danger!!) IF i switched to hi-test and changed fuel/spark if it would be worthwhile....seen hyper adverts but not too anxious to play with them again...did you note better perf??

Go to their web site and look at the Dyno charts. My LT1 responded much better to the reprogramming than the LT4 did but GM did their R&D on the 96 LT4 as it was the last Mouse Motor (Small Block)

 

[Rogier]

There's no such thing as a thermoshock. The only thing that will be affected is you oil temperature and that's only when you are just starting to drive it.

Please be aware: low coolant temperature's do not wear your engine out, LOW OIL TEMPERATURE'S DO!!! Your engine oil should reach it's nominal temperature as soon as possible. By getting the coolant running through your engine sooner then standard you will only make things worse. It will take longer for the engine oil to heat up.

My advice: don't change the T-STAT to anything else then standard. It won't give you any powergain or so, so why bother?!

 

[code5coupe]

There's no such thing as a thermoshock.

Please be aware: low coolant temperature's do not wear your engine out, LOW OIL TEMPERATURE'S DO!!!

I agree with Rogier on the first statement 100%. "Thermoshock" is a term that has no application in metallurgy.

However, I disagree with the second statement. Since low oil temperatures only affect the oils viscosity, saying low oil temps increase bearing wear is tantamount to saying thick oil has lessened lubricating properties than does thin oil. This just isn't true.
Cold/thick oil may require more power to pump, but that's all.
Heat is the enemy of lubricating oil, not its friend.

 

[Rogier]

Thick oil puts more pressure on your seals as well. Oil function's within a certain temperaturescale the best. This can be different for different oil's. However, oil function's pretty much the best at around 100 degrees celcius. This is the operating temperature of an engine.

Simple motivation for everybody should be the fact that racecars run their engine's warm before they race. Not during. This is not only because of the extra horsepower a oil pump requires for thick oil but also because of seals etc.

Also 100% synthetic oil function's better cleaning the engine's seals and bearings when it's at operating temperature. From this point of view it's not wise to run your engine at higher rev's / more output power when it's not already at operating temperature. This will reduce your engine's lifespan.

Heat is indeed the enemy of lubricating oil but you cannot get your (standard) engine thát hot.

 

[code5coupe]

Oil function's within a certain temperaturescale the best.

Simple motivation for everybody should be the fact that racecars run their engine's warm before they race. your engine's lifespan.

Heat is indeed the enemy of lubricating oil but you cannot get your (standard) engine thát hot.

First point: yes, and the lower the temperature, the better it lubricates. Is not lubrication the primary function of engine oil? Cooling is a secondary fuction and it cools best when it is...well, cool.
Second point: The only reasons race cars are warmed up is power and pressure, not any 'fuctionality' of the oil.
Third point: Do you really believe that? I don't. Try running your non-oil-cooler-equiped C4 for 5 or 10 miles flat out (3 minutes or so)and you'll find your oil exceeding the max temp on the gage.

 

[Rogier]

The lower the temperature the better it lubricates?

That's not correct. The lower the temperature, the thicker the oil is. Engine bearing clearances are designed for oil with a specific viscosity. The lubrication of oil function's best at operating temperature not at the lowest temperature.
Cooling is not a second function for an watercooled engine. The one and only reason an oil cooler is installed sometimes is to prevent oil from getting too hot. You cannot heatbalance an fourstroke engine with both coolant and oil. The oil is for lubrication only and the coolant installation is there to keep the engine's temperature (oil) within certain specifications.

I don't think we will take eachother's motivation for truth but it might help if I told you that I work with Shell at a Mitsubishi Caterpillar plant for testing purposes. Anyway I respect your opinion.

 

[code5coupe]

And I respect your right to your opinion.

This is the last I'll say on this subject: If you don't think one of oil's function is cooling, find one of the lubrication engineers at Shell and ask them.

 

[speedmaster4]

i've been told that oil was only thing removing heat from the underside if the piston..without oil cooling the aluminum would melt....?

 

[Rogier]

@speedmaster: Some engine's are indeed designed with an piston cooled underside. They use some injector to spray oil against the underside of the piston. These engines are often high performance engines. This works pretty good because the oil is much cooler then the piston.

@codeScoupe: I did!! That's why I wrote the above. Ofcourse you can cool an engine with oil. Look at Suzuki's GSX-R from the years before 1993. But you forget one thing: These engines are designed to this. Corvette engines are not. I can ofcourse go through a lot of trouble making calculations out of which I can show you where as the coolant within this calculation determines in the end the operating temperature of your engine. Not your oil. But I think I have to open a new thread.

 

[Mart]

Hi Guys,

I realized when I started this thread that it would bring on some heavy discusion and arguments, which is great, I believe everyone will benefit from both side of this battle.

Even after this thread is gone the argument will continue forever.

Bring it on, keep it going, and keep it friendly and clean.

Mart

PS. I currently have a 160 in the car and have had no probs, no change in mileage, but I think I will switch to a 180 and see what happens there.

 

[code5coupe]

Rog,
I may have not been real clear previously. Of course, the cooling that the lubricating oil performs is not the primary cooling for the engine. As you said, the cooling system("water") fulfills that function.
The cooling I'm refering to is localized cooling of areas such as rod bearings, crank bearings, cam bearings and lobes, rocker arm fulcrums, etc. In other words, bearing surfaces in an engine that do not have water jackets nearby to absorb their heat. These areas have little means to remove heat except their constant flow of lubricating oil.
The GSX-R engines you mentioned were indeed advertised as "oil-cooled", but you and I both know that they are really air-cooled engines. (The "oil-cooling" done in those engines was described in the paragraph above.)
Nice talkin' to ya'...and glad you can debate in an adult manner. Too many forum guys cannot.

 

[Mart]

So if oil is doing some cooling why has nobody tried to cool the oilpan???

Ahhhh, but oil coolers do exist!

"Motor oil lubricates and cleans moving / rotating metallic surfaces. As metallic surface rub on each other, that causes friction, thus creating heat. Heat is the enemy to motor oil. As motor oil heats up it loses its ability to lubricate and the surfaces requiring lubrication begin to wear. Continued use at elevated temperatures can result in premature engine wear and eventual failure.
"
Quote from http://www.dana.com/Automotive_Systems/Products/Thermal%20Products/EOC/eocoverview.aspx


The big question is just what TEMP???? :confused

 

[code5coupe]

So if oil is doing some cooling why has nobody tried to cool the oilpan??? :confused

They have.
Finned aluminum oil pans, pans with cooling tubes going through the sump, etc. have been available for at least the last 30 years.

Of course, they are not as effective/efficient as a purpose-built oil cooler, so they aren't as common.

What temp? Max temps for regular oil is generally considered to be around 300deg F., IIRC. Max temp for synthetics is said to be somewhat higher. I'm not about to suggest any precise numbers on this. :L

 

[Louis Bartay]

Try the stock stat in the winter and a 160 in the summer, I have been watching my oil temp and it is not getting to 215 degrees now, it stays at about 190. But during the Hot Texas summers a 160 stat is a Must for my LT4.

 

[Mart]

RE: finned oil pans and coolers.

I do realize they are out there and have been for some time, but why has this area of cooling been so ..... Hmmmm....obscure....controversial...blah, blah, blah.

I think the big thing I get out of this thread is that it really depends on how you drive your Vette, where you live, and what season it is.

Lets face it, if I lived in Texas I think I would run a 160 with a switch or chip for the fans.

The fact that I live in Toronto Canada, and the Vette is sittin in the garage for months at a time, and I drive it on mainly nice days, and hard as Hell by the time I drive 25minutes to work and sit in 15 minutes of traffic I'm at 225-230 and on come the fans, so I run a 160.

Everybodys different in different places and different driving styles.

And that's that

And for whoever has never heard of "Thermoshock" it is a rapid cooling and heating process, but I doubt it is very common in street cars, maybe in drag cars. Ahh yes it was Rogier

There's no such thing as a thermoshock.

Cheers Mart