This may sound silly ...

[chgostout]

I just bought an '80 with the Borg Warner T-10 4 speed in it. I haven't driven a manual trans in years, and am not sure about at what speeds I should be shifting into the various gears. Can someone please enlighten me about this.

 

[Ken]

Street driving and race track driving are two different things. If you are racing you'd want to go for higher rpms, but when you're just driving normally on the street, you shift when it feels good to you. The car will let you know if it likes it.

 

[cntrhub]

1st gear, up to 20mph. 2nd gear, up to 35mph. 3rd gear, up to redline. 4th gear, better be in that gear on most highways that exceed 55 mph or more. These are minimum shift speeds. Want to know what each gear will do?.....shift up to the Tach's redline in any gear.
If you feel the car bucking in any gear, you are in too high of a gear. Select the next lowest gear. Each gear should not bog the engine. Again, select the next lower gear. On the opposite side, too high of an engine speed in any lower gear should be shifted to the next higer gear.
You'll feel the engine, and be in the correct gear in due time. It will become natural what gear the car will best fit the speed. Keep practicing.

 

[sscam69]

You'll feel the engine, and be in the correct gear in due time

I go by the sound of the engine but when I look at the tach I notice I shift at about 2500rpm.

Don't worry if you shift to early the car will bog, stay in it long enough and you'll feel like your abusing your baby.

Its right in between those 2

 

[chgostout]

hey thanks guys!

I guess the thing that's confused me most is that sticks I've driven in the past - have more clearly winded out to let one know the gear can't do much more, making it more obvious that it's time to shift to the next gear.

2nd gear in this car doesn't strain at all - even up to 50 mph., and gives me the feeling there's alot more room to go, but when I've waited til 40 or 45 mph, to go to third gear - 3rd feels like I'm downshifting into it - instead of upshifting into it!

This trans is described as a "close ratio" T -10. What exactly does that mean?

When winding thru 3rd gear, it's sound and feel doesn't indicate I have near as much room in it as 2nd, so whatever speed I switch into 4th gear from it - 4th seems to handle the transition properly.

What do you guys know about this ... and about this Borg Warner T - 10 trans? Are the characteristics of it noticeably different than other trans' that are in these cars?

 

[cntrhub]

Close ratio means that the gears in the Trans are almost matched to the other gears. Meaning, that 1st feels like 2nd. 2nd feels like 3rd and so on. So when you're in a gear and.... "3rd feels like I'm downshifting into it - instead of upshifting into it!"....this is how a close ratio transmission acts.
Selecting 1st gear in a slow turn, is when you begin to appreciate a close ratio transmission. 2nd will be too tall of a gear for such a low speed, while 1st will be perfect to accerlerate out of a tight turn. 4th is just a touch taller in ratio for overall gas milage performance. You should see the RPM drop quite a bit from 3rd.

 

[JohnZ]

Unless the transmission has been changed, it's not a close-ratio; the last year for the optional close-ratio transmission (with a 2.43:1 1st gear) was 1979, when it was only available with the optional L82 engine. The only 4-speed offered in 1980 was the "wide-ratio", with a 2.88:1 1st gear.

 

[chgostout]

I've not gotten under the car to look at it, but I'm understanding the trans to be the famous Borg Warner super LT -10, with a competition Hurst shifter (which does away with the extra, unneccesary linkage of the stock shifter).

I don't know enough about 1980 vettes to know if this was what was put into the car stock, or was custom factory ordered, or put in at a later time.

Were these LT-10's what chevrolet put in when a manual trans was ordered with the 1980, or were they an option upgrade, ... or strictly aftermarket?

 

[Ken]

I have to ask, did someone change out the ZF six-speed that came with the car and install a Borg Warner Super T-10 in its place?

The Borg Warner (at the time it was Doug Nash, it is currently Richmond Gear) Super T-10 was the basis for what was used in manual transmission Corvettes from 1984 through 1988; in 1989 they changed to the Zahradfabrik Friedshafen AG (ZF) six-speed transmission.

 

[chgostout]

Ken -

I hear you referring to '84-'89 corvette trannies, and maybe you're getting your years mixed up, or you're mistakenly referring to the later year trannies put into those later year cars -

But I'm talkin' about a 1980 with the L-48 that came with a 4 speed manual trans-factory equipped; And what THAT trans was that corvette supplied?

Was it the T-10, or some other; And if not, could the T-10 have been ordered as an upgrade optional trans with the car, ... Or would this T-10 HAD to have been installed AFTERWARD - because the factory wouldn't have done it or had it available?

 

[Ken]

Oh, I see. I just looked to the left here and saw that you have a 1990 Corvette listed as your car, I didn't scroll back up to see your initial post. Sorry, my mistake.

_ken

 

[cntrhub]

According to the 1980 GM shop manual I have, it says that the Trans is known as a, "4-Speed 83 mm" Transmission. This Trans was standard in the L-48. There are 3 external shift linkage rods off to the side. If you look under the car, (driver's side) and spot these, you most likely have the 83 mm Trans, with aftermarket Hurst parts.
T- series, if I am not mistaken means, "Top Loader." Meaning that.... service is repaired by disassembling the integrated shifter/case cover from the top of the Trans case. Whereas the 83 mm style transmissions, were serviced by removing rear, and shifter side case components for disassembly.
It is possible you may have a late model T-series Transmission? And again, if I am not mistaken, these T-series transmissions were not available back in 1980. This swap was (somewhat ingeniously) done, out in the "field." The easiest way to tell for a late model T-type Trans are..... no shift linkage rods. This should answer your question.

 

[chgostout]

Thanks alot centerhub for your research! Sorry to not reply in awhile, as i have been away from my computer for awhile.

I did try to get under the car, but the driver's floorpan curves soo low, I couldn't quite see enough of the trans to see. Next time I have the car up, I'll find out.

I notice from your description of yourself that you miss your '62 & '80 4 speed vettes. Does that mean you don't have a vette now?

I've been lookin for a shop manual for my '80, and if you'd consider selling yours - I'd be interested in buying.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[cntrhub]

Stout, I had a nice stock '80 4-Speed. Poured money in the front and rear suspensions, and little trival parts to square it away. It was well taken care of by the other owners. It hardly needed any work. I kind of "analed" along the way. Then I learned about, "Margin Call".... the hard way. Had to sell the car at a loss and a hightly collectable stock 1973 Kawasaki Z-1 to cover the call. Needless to say, I don't "Margin" anymore.
I do have an '80 manual, and like to see it get a new home. I just use it for research here at CAC. I don't know what they are worth to give you a fair price? Did you look on ebay for one? If you can't find one, lets see what we can do?

 

[Ken]

I'm back!

I just came across this today and thought of you guys that have considered the late-model T-56 swap onto a early-model engine. Check it out here: http://corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19807

_ken

 

[chgostout]

Sorry to hear about your "Calling", centerhub. Have been thinkin' of dabbling somewhat more in the stockmarket myself ... and have to remember to only commit so much risk to it - no matter how appealing or "foolproof" it looks. ...

But since I posted my last comment, I've found a '80 shop manual at Eckler's for $90, so you just keep yours ... for that NEXT '80 vette you'll get soon! Their hasn't been one on ebay for the several weeks I've watched them fo one.

But while I was at Eckler's ... I found a trans rebuild kit they sell for what they list as a " 75-81 Borg Warner Super LT-10 4speed trans!! So, that proves that my trans could be the LT-10, and, because they aren't selling any other kits for any other manual trannies of that era, the LT-10 could even be the stock trans put in by Corvette.

So, that's an interesting development in our quest to decipher what this trannie is.

(To tell you the truth, I don't think I'd really know the difference between the Super LT-10 and another trans, but I get a kick out of throwing around all these neat and bold sounding descriptions of the stuff).
I'm just happy that it works fine, that the clutch works well with it, and that after some practice, I'll be able to get some rubber with it and "get it down" well enough to beat out the mustangs,etc. that have challenged me in my '90 L98.

So, anyway, if you're ever in my neck of the woods, let me know, an maybe you could come by and see my '80, and even take out for a spin, if you want (With me ridin' shotgun, of course!)