Tire rant.. Goodyear

[WhalePirot]

I really want to buy American, from the only tire company left, and am willing to pay extra, versus some Asian tire.

I was early in that mien, but when the US car companies outsourced and rebadged, I switched to German cars; now old ones.

Now Goodyear is ceasing to support our C4s, it seems, with virtually no stock on the wider 17" tires. I fully understand this short horizon approach to business, but look at our industries' states.

After days and days of researching, looking at reviews shopping sources and prices, what fits my car, I decided to get the 285/40x17s for all corners. The famous online place shows them available until I go to order, upon which, the local guy is faster and much cheaper.

I ran Gatorbacks with great life and performance, if a bit noisy, so I returned to Goodyear... well, maybe not, by their choice. ad

There marketing sucks as badly as Milwaukee Tool, who have had superior tools of professional quality.

Maybe it is time to switch to Continental, rated quite similarly for performance and life, at lower cost.

 

[Hib Halverson]

The reason Goodyear support of older Corvette sizes is either spotty or nonexistent is most of the people who own cars of that age, shop for price, rather than performance or quality. The late C4 tires (17s) are made in batches then GY waits until there is a certain level of stock on hand before it runs another batch. I suspect it won't be too much longer before GY just stops making the 17s.

GY doesn't support early C4 sizes. Goodyear cannot compete for price because of the cost of materials and labor. It's too bad because if GY made an F1 GS-D3 in 255ZR50/16 the 84-87 folks would have an excellent tire choice.

Don't blame Goodyear entirely for your problem. Blame your fellow Corvetters who buy lower cost tires for old cars.

 

[WhalePirot]

Thanks, Hib. I had those thoughts, too. I have friends pushing me to try Kumhos, but I cannot do it, even tho I like kimchi. I am all about saving money, but there is much more to that than price. I know the 50% premium for G/Y is beyond what many C4 owners can afford, even IF they understand the cost/mile is less.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Kumho makes great DOT radial race tires. I'm not sure about its street tires.

The Michelin Pilot Sport is a good tire. If they have it in the 17" sizes you want, consider them.

On two different Vettes, my choice is the Goodyear F1 GS-D3, 275/30ZR17 in front and 315/35ZR17 rear. Great tires, inspite of the fact that the D3 has been on the market a number of years. Right now, I'm not shopping for tires. Hopefully, when I need my next set, I'll be able to get Goodyears.

 

[93Rubie]

I have bought Kumho Escta's for my Corvette. I really like them. I would say light years ahead of the Goodyear GS-C's the car had on it when I bought it. Currently I have some GS-D3's out back and I like them, but I would say the Kumho's are just as good. I do run my car, trust me, harder than most by a lot.

I make my money go far, if I can get a performance tire with what I want and not break the bank. Why not? Quality at a reasonable price is what I am after. Thus no Fusion ZRi's for me. Cheap yes, quality no.

I got Hankook H727's on my DD Ford Focus. Why, well Tire Rack rated them well, and Consumer Reports rated them very very high like number 3 in a comparison. Way cheaper than competitors and just as good. No brainer on that one. Again, most quality at a reasonable price.

If I had boat loads of cash laying around I would go Michelin, expensive but the best out there. Yes.

Since I don't I want the best band for the buck. My 2 cents.

 

[Hib Halverson]

I have bought Kumho Escta's for my Corvette. I really like them. I would say light years ahead of the Goodyear GS-C's the car had on it when I bought it. Currently I have some GS-D3's out back and I like them, but I would say the Kumho's are just as good. I do run my car, trust me, harder than most by a lot.

I make my money go far, if I can get a performance tire with what I want and not break the bank. Why not? Quality at a reasonable price is what I am after. Thus no Fusion ZRi's for me. Cheap yes, quality no.

(snip)

Let's carry this tire discussion a bit farther. "93Rubie", here are some questions for you:

With F1 GS-D3s on the back and Kumhos Ecstas on the front, how do you make the comparison of one tire to the other as far as handling performance? Let's say you had "Fusion ZRi's" on the back and Kumhos on the front...how would you make the comparison, there? Lastly, do you think the comparison would be more or less valid if you were testing the same type of tire on all four wheels?

When you you say you drive your car "....harder than most by a lot", can you be a little more specific? Do you road race, autocross, drive twisty roads for long periods at the limit, have regular access to a test track...what?

Define a "performance tire that won't break the bank"....ie: tell us what you define as "performance" in a tire.

Also, define "quality at a reasonable price"...ie: for a price you feel is reasonable, tell us what characteristics must be present for that tire to have "quality".

 

[John Robinson]

I would like to jump in here and state that the only tire I have experienced on my corvette are Kumhos. When I bought it used the dealer had just put a new set of the summer wet dry tires on the car and when I replaced them I opted for the ASX all season tire. Having said that I have used other tires in high performance driving and some scca racing and the criteria I use first for a tire is does it brodcast what it is doing. By that I mean when I get into a corner (for instance one marked at 30 mph and I am doing 90) I want a tire that starts to let me know that I am approaching its maximum adhesion. I will feel a little bit of break away in traction but not enough that I will lose control unless I push it further. There are some tires that stick like glue until all of a sudden you find yourself out of control because they did not for warn you they were approaching their limit. As for buying only American made tires that is admirable but even our beloved Corvettes are not 100% American made. If you look at your saw tooth rims you will see they were made in Japan. The brakes came from Austria the ABS came from Bosch in Germany. So I think the wheels will not fall off if you buy a tire from a foreign country. I believe I was told not long ago that Cooper tire had bought out Kumho if that is do then you could believe they are an American Manufactures tire.

 

[xfirez51]

Long term tire availability us one reason I decided to put on a set of C6 Z06 wheels. Looking for tires recently, I comsidered the General Exclaim UHP but they apparently have been discontinued. I wish Vredestein made the Ultrac Sessanta in a 325 x 19, but they don't.
I ended up getting the Nitto Invos 18 Front/ 19 Rear.

 

[WhalePirot]

The Michelin Pilot Sport is a good tire. If they have it in the 17" sizes you want, consider them.

I have and they are more costly, atop one reviewer preferring the D3s to them.

when I need my next set, I'll be able to get Goodyears.

Coming from analytical and experienced you, that means a lot to me. My car is also lowered about 1" and with 315s on all corners, my steering is limited by rubbing and the rear inner wells were rubbed to breakage on dips. Have you seen that on either of yours? I could raise the rear a bit.

I make my money go far..... most quality at a reasonable price.

As do I. Tire quality, however, is somewhat subjective, which is why I appreciate the comments from others who drive these cars as I do.

I would go Michelin, expensive but the best out there. Yes.

perhaps, and others have said the same, but from what I have seen there is very little difference and the G/Ys are considerably pricier already.

some tires stick like glue until all of a sudden ....

I agree, with very aggressive driving I enjoy at times.

As for buying the only American made tires that is admirable but even our beloved Corvettes are not 100% American made. If you look at your saw tooth rims you will see they were made in Japan. The brakes came from Austria the ABS came from Bosch in Germany. So I think the wheels will not fall off if you buy a tire from a foreign country.

My Z51 wheels were drilled off-center in Mexico. While no ABS on this '84, the original brake master is from AUS. The last Delco relay I bought is from China as is the replacement electric fan motor than fried itself in 20 minutes.

I recall when all Japanese products were total garbage and I have shopped in Korea and China for 20+ years. 98% of it looked like quality but was total junk. I learned to call Korea, the 'land of almost right' in regard to their quality. While the Koreans learned that they either stepped up the quality of exports or get kicked back to 3rd world status, I am not sold, yet. Hence, this thread, not having bought Corvette tires for many years.

I realize that the world has changed, globalization, etc. but will support, as the Asians still do, the 'home' country, not blindly, but with all else equal. It's kinda like marrying the gal next door; turns out her values and expectations are akin to mine, so there is an inherent match.

My world-shopping has taught me this phrase: "You get what you pay for, if you are smart or lucky." I'm seeking the smart input and appreciate y'all's input.

The wheels I have and are redoing, look great on this unique car, so I'll not go newer... yet.

 

[TedC]

What ever brand you settle on, just get them road forced balanced on a Hunter 9700 with an experienced user. I'm amazed at the difference and how few weights if any are required regardless if it is top-end or low-end tire. Also, check the date of manufacture. With my last vette purchased I had to replace the tires due to side wall cracking and hardening of the rubber compound at only 5.5 years old with plenty of tread life. Online shops pull from old inventory first unless you ask.

 

[Jeff P]

I feel your pain...I'm in the process of getting my 1988 ready for NCRS Top Flight judging....goodyear was the original supplier for the 16's that came on my car and they no longer make ANYTHING that will fit. If they did I would get them just to keep the car as close to all original as possible and take only a partial deduction on the rubber, but alas....

 

[93Rubie]

(snip)

Let's carry this tire discussion a bit farther. "93Rubie", here are some questions for you:

With F1 GS-D3s on the back and Kumhos Ecstas on the front, how do you make the comparison of one tire to the other as far as handling performance? Let's say you had "Fusion ZRi's" on the back and Kumhos on the front...how would you make the comparison, there? Lastly, do you think the comparison would be more or less valid if you were testing the same type of tire on all four wheels?

When you you say you drive your car "....harder than most by a lot", can you be a little more specific? Do you road race, autocross, drive twisty roads for long periods at the limit, have regular access to a test track...what?

Define a "performance tire that won't break the bank"....ie: tell us what you define as "performance" in a tire.

Also, define "quality at a reasonable price"...ie: for a price you feel is reasonable, tell us what characteristics must be present for that tire to have "quality".

Sorry, I have misled you. I currently have GS-D3's out back, with GS-C's up front. They where on the wheels I have when I bought them. I did not feel comfort able with the age of the Goodyears and running them at the drag strip. So I got the Kumho's and put two of them on my stock rear wheels. Next year I am going to purchase 4 new wheels and tires.

I believe a comparison would be more accurate with tires at all four corners as far as handling and braking. However, I can make a an accurate comparison as far as straight line acceleration goes on just the rear two. The fronts are just along for the ride. The GS-D3's and the Kumhos are very similar in this regard. The old GS-C's however spin very easily in comparison.

I also drive a certain section of road in my area at tire squeal inducing speeds. The GS-C's lose grip progressively and have never gave me any surprises. Given I have the 255/285 split the car under steers at this limit. I have never had the car with the GS-D3's step out on me. Also, they are very good in the rain, when I occasionally get caught in it, in normal street driving.

A good performance tire should emphasize dry traction for cornering, braking, and straight line. Wet traction should be acceptable for street use with high hydroplane resistance. Decent wear, ride, and noise. Should last at least 10K even under enthusiastic use. Quality construction (ie. balances with little weight, I added maybe a whole ounce to balance my Kumhos per tire and wheel-dynamic balance). All for under $200 a tire. Many tires meet this the Continental Extreme Contact DW, Kumho Escta XS, and SPT, among others from Bridgestone, BFGoodrich, etc...

Also, I should add, I will scan and provide the test results of Consumer Reports tire test if you wish. I used this to buy my DD tires and it influenced my Corvette tire choice. As well as input from Tirerack.com.

I am not knocking Goodyear, they make a great tire, just pricey. Same with Michelin, best tires in my opinion, they put them on the ZR1, for a point. Goodyear then had to go back to the drawing board and I do believe they have a new tire for the latest Corvettes-2011.

 

[catbert]

Remember the OEM Goodyears were made to GM specs. Goodyear takes a lot of flack for characteristics required by GM engineering. That said, I do fault them for not updating their tires for ages. They rode the original Gatorbacks for far too long, and got a bad rep for a tire that wasn't competitive - and it wasn't, but the Z51 84 Vette pulled one G in several magazine tests. Non OEM tire makers don't have to worry about getting along with GM, so they are free to, for one, make nice sticky tires that don't meet mileage criteria for OEMs.

 

[CROOZ1N]

I work at the only Yokohama tire plant in the US and I get a discount on our tires. The only thing is we no longer make sizes to fit either my 93 or 2003 in either a run flat or normal tire. I asked why and the simple answer was that we only produce tires for a certain life cycle. Usually the 2nd to 3rd set after OEM. Once this time frame is surpassed the tire is cycled out of production. It kinda sucks that we make a pretty highly rated tire but to run them i have to either change the wheels or go to a non stock size.
So there's at least one " Japanese" branded tire Made right herein the US of A. It may not fit an older vette but my Jeep loves em.

 

[WhalePirot]

Got the G/Y F1s 285/40/17

Interesting 'trip'.

TireR**k showed the tires available but none were local, to the point of ridiculous shipping costs ($170/pair) or an indefinite wait. The pisser was that I only found out when trying to place the order, NOT on their earlier screens.

I decided on the Continentals, but with indefinite delivery, the G/Y deal from a local shop was the ticket; better than that online gig in price, out the door. The local guy also worked with me in the musical tire circus I had going on with the wheel polish/reseal.

Nice resultant pics in my Shinoda body thread.