To RollerCam or not?

[matchframe]

I have changed directions on my restoration. It has now become a "Remodification". I have finally decided to build a Big Block for my '78. Through the influence of different friends, and my wife saying, "Well you always wanted a Big Block Vette anyway, why don't you just build your own." The only big block I have ever built was in 1976 when I put a 427 in my '68 Camaro. So essentially, I am pretty new to the Big Block Camp. I have recieved some really good advise so far, but I know I still have alot to learn. So any advise is alway welcome. My goal for the car is to enjoy on the weekends and sometimes drive it to work. And once in a while some spirited driving. (Well more often than just once in a while). But I want to have the muscle when I want it. My question for today is, should I go for a roller cam or just a flat lifter hydrualic. I have had several solid lifters in the past, and I know then benifits they have, but I don't want to adjust the lifters every other week. What do you think?

Bill

 

[Jack]

Bill:
Roller cam retrofit is readily available with either hydraulic or solid roller lifters. Just a rough estimate ... but I'd expect costs for new roller cam & roller lifters to exceed that of a new flat tappet cam & f-t lifters by about $500-up. Your call if a roller is cost-effective for your needs.

IMHO, there are plenty of hydraulic flat tappet cams that'll do the job VERY well. In all but the factory hi-po BBC, a major limiting factor is the heads ... starting with the valve springs ... most OE & OE replacement type BBC springs cannot take much rpm or cam for long.

If I were building a performance BBC, I'd focus my money on the bottom end first ... ensuring block's align-bore ... ensuring rods were at least the good factory dimple rods w/ new 7/16" bolts ... riding on a good steel (not cast iron) crank. Then headwork ... then cam.
JACK:gap

 

[robert kirk]

i used a hydrolic roller in my 71. But like Jack said i have a killer bottomend, and the rest is also top notch so it was a nobrainer for me. the cost of cam and lifters, springs, pushrods, rockers, keepers, all the parts came to about 2 grand. was it worth it? to me it was. it allowed me to use grinds that would not have been ava anyother way. a roller is able to open the valve quicker and hold it open longer. it's just money how fast do you want to go? robert

 

[fc3]

I did the same as robert kirk... Bulletproof bottom end, custom small base circle cam. It is expensive but I didn't want to cut any corners...I don't have it running yet but I should have in the next few days!!! I'll let you know how it works. Fred.

 

[zwede]

I put a hydraulic roller in my '71 454. Well worth the money, IMO. I'm running a stock LS-5 bottom end, Edelbrock Aluminum heads (100cc chambers = 9.5:1 CR). The cam was $220, lifters $350, pushrods $45, cam button $10. More than a flat tappet, but not that much.

I love the cam as it has good power, excellent torque and perfect manners. Idles smooth @ 800 rpm with 17" of vacuum. No bucking or surging. Best of both worlds, IMO.

/Markus

 

[matchframe]

I really appreciate all the info. I have not yet decided exactly how I will build this beast, I have alot of work to do on the car itself. Then, I will definately concentrate on the block and the rotating assembly first. I want to make that as bullet-proof as possible. The next priority will definately be the heads, that is what defines what the engine will be. At that point, I will have to get serious about which cam to go with. Thanks!

Bill

 

[crebo]

zwede,
Don't have a 454. I have a BB402. Just bought some edlebrock rpm series heads. air gap intake. Lunati cam....Wondering about what type of Hp you putting on the ground.

Thanks Crebo

 

[69MyWay]

Here is a wild twist for you.

How about plucking a late model 454 from the salvage yard as your starting base. In most 1988 and up trucks these have stock roller hydraulic cams with a special casting to them that makes it all work. For street use, the roller hydraulic lifters are fantastic low friction long life units.

You can have the stock cam grind custom built to suit your final build.

If you get a 1996 and newer complete engine, they now have multi port EFI just like the small block. It looks cool, and works great. Now, you do the same tricks to the truck block as you would do to say a.....L98 or LT1 in terms of better heads, or head work, more compression, ported intake, headers, and chip.

You can also install roller rockers.

Now you have a full EFI engine, very mild manners, plenty of power, full roller cam/rockers, and total trick cool looks under the hood.

Regretably I bought a 1995 Chevy 3500 with the 454--the last of the regular simple TBI systems. It works well, but there is no flash or glitz to the motor. TZracer has a 1998 3500 with the 454 and the TPI style EFI.....it looks great and makes more power pure stock.

Every chance I get, I peak at his engine and picture how perfect that would mount up in a Shark with some simple wire harness mods and accessory mods.

Just a thought.

 

[zwede]

I'm putting down 390 rear wheel hp, 440 ft-lbs. Not that impressive, but it's a very mild cam, only 224/232 @050. Since it is a daily driver I wanted smooth idle, and good driveability.

/Markus

 

[matchframe]

A friend of mine has a 98 Chevy 3500 w/ a 454 in it. He let me look at his engine, and you are right, it would look at home in a shark! His engine also has a sweet sound to it even though it is all stock, but he does have true duel exhaust which I think brought out some of the natural power. Now I have my sights set on one these! Thanks for the tip! :cool

 

[SwaveDave]

Did my motor rebuild last summer from top to bottom...except i kept the factory crank but had it polished. Bottom end is bulletproof . Went with a Lunati Hydr. Roller 232/242 dur. @.50 , .575/.595 lift, 112 lsa . Definetly more responsive . Will last much longer than flat tappet digging into the lobes. Idles nice at 800 rpm with 12.5 " vac. Didnt affect the power brakes.

Knowing what i know now about how it idles , etc...i would have even gone a bit more radical on the cam selection.

Dave

 

[matchframe]

Knowing what i know now about how it idles , etc...i would have even gone a bit more

Dave,

What kind of heads do you go with, and what kind of compression did you end up with? How much more radical would you go with the cam? I am soaking up all the info I can before I dive into the engine side of my project. I really appreciate it!

Bill

 

[SwaveDave]

Bill,
My idle is very smooth with a little lope to it. The reason i believe this is the case, is because i had the engine balanced and went with a new FLuidDamper. It is very streetable. If i to select another Hydr. Roller Cam for the engine, i think i would have gone up on the lift and duration a little more...but kept the 112 LSA rating. I thought the cam i did select, was going to have more of a lope to it ... so i could have gone alot more before i became displeased with it . Its an individual preference ; i talked to a few guys on the Forums and they all warned me of not going too radical on the duration and lift.
Anyway...the bottom line , is, im exceedingly pleased with its manners for the street (only) usage it gets.


Dont forget , if you want to, y ou can custom design and order your Cam from CompCams, Lunati, etc... in fact, i have a brand new never installed CompCams custom made Hydr. Roller Cam for a BBC that i paid $286 for and changed my mind at the last moment about putting it in -- i wish i would have now.

Dave

 

[matchframe]

Dave,
Thanks for the info! I too, like a lope to a beefy sounding engine. I bet your Vette is alot of fun to drive. The mid years and chrome bumper sharks have always been my favorite Corvettes. When I was in high school, I had a '71 convertable w/ a small block, 4sp and a whole lot of fun. Wish I still had that car. The '78 I am rebuilding now, I bought in 1985, drove it for about 5 years, then parked it until last fall when I completed my garage. Started taking it apart to do a frame-off. Since the car is nothing special, I decided to modify it to that way I wanted. Always dreamed of owning a Big Block Vette, so now I am building one! My 11 year old son and 9 year old daughter are having fun with me taking the car apart. My wife sits in the garage with us providing all the encouragement and refreshments we could want. It is really quality family time. We really look forward to cruising the streets in it. Thanks again for the advise and info!

Take Care,
Bill

 

[SwaveDave]

Bill,

I think that is wonderful that the entire family is partaking in this adventure ; too often ive seen the Vette as a wedge between husband and wife. In fact, i bought my 1970 BB from a guy who was going thru a divorce and needed the money for the settlement ; he told me how his wife absolutely hated him spending time on it and entering it in shows. Im sure there were other things that caused the demise of thier marriage too. Whats neat about any C3, is that, its a piece of yesteryear ! A time when things seemed a bit more simplier , and AMericas favorite sports car was an all time hit. I often put on some 60's music when im driving Ol Blue down a country road on a Sunday afternoon --- its very nostalgic to me and reminds me of my great childhood years (when a Corvette was so far beyond reach) . Anyway, glad the family is enthused about the '78 resto.

Since buidling a BB motor is not something you do every year...id suggest you pop for some high quality internals and make it bulletproof . The things i would strongly recommend are : Hydr. Roller cam/lifters , Total Seal gapless 2nd ring set (for maximum compression/virtually no blowby), strong rods (like Manley) , and Oval Port ALum. Heads that flow (like Edelbrocks #6045 ) . Top it off with at least an 800 cfm carb..and youll have a screamer.

Let us know how it progresses.

Dave
P.S. Yes, Ol BLue is alot of fun to drive ; lots of passing power !!

 

[crebo]

SwaveDave

I love your numbers. Got me feeling pretty good. I have the same intake and heads. on my small big block. Anywayz I know that mine won't be as high as yours.
I have a lunati cam. 230/230 .544 lift. With this set up is it too radical?
I'm running a 2200 stall. What are you running?
What type of rear end do you have?
How do you like the heads.
Rear end is 3.08 going to a 3.73

Thanks for the help.

 

[SwaveDave]

Crebo

I have a 4 speed with 370 rear . Changing to 370 rear from 308 will give you lots of lowend grunt . The Edelbrock 6045 Alum Oval Port Heads are real high quality -- a very good power builder too over the factory iron heads. In fact..i could actually feel the difference by holding my hand against the exhaust tips.

Dave

 

[crebo]

SwaveDave
Thanks!!
Takes me awhile to respond at times. In the military at a desert training facility. You can imagine.
Anyway this weekend will bolt on edel air gap intake-edel 60459-cam-new fan shroud--comp roller tipped rockers....I know I'll have noticable gains from the weight alone.
Couldn't believe the differ.

Do you think I can go to more radical cam? I would like to have about 425 hp on the ground. I hope this will put me pretty close.
Thanks for any info
Crebo

 

[SwaveDave]

Crebo

My cam is a Lunati Hydr. Roller , 232/242 , .575/.595 , 112 lsa and it is not too lopey at all for my liking . Of course, i got the engine balanced too so that helps. Im really happy with mine . Its used for street use only. I think you could go more radical if you dont mind some lope.

Dave