transaxle question

[mitchberry]

ok, this question may have been done to death, or, maybe it's common knowledge to you guys, but, i can't seem to find a straight forward answer so i'll ask.

so, the C5+ have transaxles. i assume this means, motor, bell housing, torque tube, transmission, differential.

well...... the question is, can you connect a bell housing directly to the transmission and omit the torque tube for mid-rear applications?

I'm sure there's a kit if not?????

Can someone please point me in the right direction?

A lot of people talk about LS1 mid-rear cars, and "cool street builds" and there is some info, most people use "say use a toronado or porsche tranxaxle" whatever..... i prefer a T56 any day. - point being though, there are a lot of people talking about doing these mid rear swaps, or building cars, or whatever, but no one really seems to know what the heck they are talking about.

(including myself, which is why i'm trying to learn. )

links to parts pages to accomplish what i'm looking to do??????????????

thanks

 

[Toms007]

Mitch, first off, Welcome to CAC. You'll find lots of knowledgeable people here to answer your questions, however, I don't think I've ever seen this one come up before.

The transmission is at the back with the rear end. Can you hook the back of the engine straight to the transmission? I suppose it is possible, I have no idea what it would take though. I am assuming that you are thinking about building a vehicle in this configuration. As if you were to do this with a Corvette body the engine would be taking the place of the seats.

Building a mid engine car, I would guess is a possibility. Maybe someone with more fab skills/know-how than myself will be able to answer your question.

 

[BigJimZ16]

ok, this question may have been done to death, or, maybe it's common knowledge to you guys, but, i can't seem to find a straight forward answer so i'll ask.

so, the C5+ have transaxles. i assume this means, motor, bell housing, torque tube, transmission, differential.

well...... the question is, can you connect a bell housing directly to the transmission and omit the torque tube for mid-rear applications?

I'm sure there's a kit if not?????

Can someone please point me in the right direction?

A lot of people talk about LS1 mid-rear cars, and "cool street builds" and there is some info, most people use "say use a toronado or porsche tranxaxle" whatever..... i prefer a T56 any day. - point being though, there are a lot of people talking about doing these mid rear swaps, or building cars, or whatever, but no one really seems to know what the heck they are talking about.

(including myself, which is why i'm trying to learn. )

links to parts pages to accomplish what i'm looking to do??????????????

thanks

OK, I'm confused... What exactly do you mean by "mid-rear"?? I've never heard that term before. Mid-engine, yes, I know what that would be. The balance of the C5+ is almost a perfect 50/50. Why would you want to mess with that balance? To close-couple the engine to the trans-axle would put the engine where the seats belong! Interior is cramped enough... and hot enough too.
Please explain in greater detail, what it is that you wish to accomplish.

 

[mitchberry]

Mitch, first off, Welcome to CAC. You'll find lots of knowledgeable people here to answer your questions, however, I don't think I've ever seen this one come up before.

The transmission is at the back with the rear end. Can you hook the back of the engine straight to the transmission? I suppose it is possible, I have no idea what it would take though. I am assuming that you are thinking about building a vehicle in this configuration. As if you were to do this with a Corvette body the engine would be taking the place of the seats.

Building a mid engine car, I would guess is a possibility. Maybe someone with more fab skills/know-how than myself will be able to answer your question.

Thanks Tom!

well, oddly enough, i did find "an" answer or two after this. It's funny how that works. you cant find something, so post about it, then find it. But yeah, you had it right. mid engine tube chassis car project, just trying to figure out which powerplant and drivetrain to go with. everyone is saying the porsche G50 transaxles, but they also say that you have to do a LOT of work to them to make them work, and i don't really want to have to do that. T56 is much easier and cheaper to work on, and is already mated to LS motors, LT motors, blah blah..

But what you said, was a concern people have found. G50 transaxle pushes the bell housing about 1.5 feet from the axles, whereas the T56 would push it about 2.5 feet, which is significant if i don't want to be driving in the hood of the car or on top of the motor. lol

i'm trying to keep the car to about the size of a lotus, so, it's pretty much impossible to do what i was asking about and make it fit without making the wheelbase bigger.

but, to answer my own question,

you can take an Fbody bell housing, and the front part of an Fbody transmission and mate the motor directly to the vette transmission and rear end, or, you can use an Fbody motor and transmission, and use a vette rear shaft to mate it to the rear end.

i lack the technical names at the moment, sorry. either way, it is 100% possible to do this, but, for practicality reasons, it seems that going with a porsche transaxle is the way that everyone else is doing this, aside from buying the one from factory 5 that they developed for their GTM's, and a few other aftermarket boxes available now.

other problem with the porsche transaxle is that the gears are taller than the T56, so top speed is cut drastically short. you no longer have a (potentially) 200mph car.. said and done, if you re-geared and did everything needed to make the porsche box work, it's 10-15k from what i'm reading, which, oddly enough, i think is what the factory 5 box costs. it's almost worth re-designing my car to make it longer since i haven't fabbed the frame yet.

i just think i'd have to push the firewall back as close to the motor as possible, and keep it low in the car. forget about reclining seats i guess hahaha

hmm.....

 

[Mac]

You guys have no imagination!!

I'm guessing the project will be something like a kit-Lambo or similar... although there are plenty of interesting vehicles that could benefit from the C5/C6 transaxle configuration. For instance, imagine how a Corvair would howl with an LS engine pushing it... OR how about an old Dodge A100 van/pickup with a midengine pushing it down the road...

I did a quick google and found a few mentions of people using/modifying an F-body bellhousing to bolt onto a C5 transaxle but I didn't find any tech spec or images of the project(s). That being said, it was 5 minutes of google...

-Mac

 

[Mac]

I didn't realize mitchberry and I posted within minutes of each other! When I checked back in on the thread, I saw his post!

Welcome aboard the CAC, mitchberry! I hope you stick around and share details of your project!! Although we're principally about Corvettes, most of us love a good project build regardless of make & model!

-Mac

 

[mitchberry]

hey mac,

lol yeah i just noticed you posted. and yeah, that's definitely the problem i was having, i couldn't find pics or anyone actually doing it, more "hey, what would happen if" or "is this possible?" and everyone says yes, but...... they don't do it. hahaha

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,

Ok, lets look at what you can and cannot do with a Corvette driveline vs the Fcar/CTSV driveline.

Corvette has the torque tube, but the Camaro/CTSV does not. The camaro differential is separate.

Camaro has a driveshaft instead with the transmission bolted directly to the back of the engine block.

Corvette "transaxle" is not actually a transaxle in the engineering term. The transmission has the ability, with the adapter plate, to directly mount a differential assembly on the rear of the transmission. This is giving the appearance of a transaxle. Transaxle meaning that the transmission and drive axle housing are all within the same transmission case.

Here is the detail to what or HOW to make this work.

#1, T56 would require a bellhousing plate to be mounted to the FRONT of the transmission case assembly so that you can mount a clutch. But, this would require complete disassembly of the T56 down to the front plate. This can be taken from a Camaro, but if I may be bolder, lets look at it from the opposite side of things.

#2, due to the long output shaft of the Corvette specified T56, it may be easier simply to take a Camaro T56 and then install the Corvette mainshaft into the Camaro T56. Then, install the adapter housing, and then the differential assembly. Either way presents its own set of challenges, but certainly is doable.

NOTE: This is what bothers me about midengine mounted powertrain. Shifter mechanisms are different between the 2. Camaro has it mounted right in the transmission case. Corvette has a sector shaft rod and linkage that comes OUT the front of the transmission. RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF WHERE THE CLUTCH WOULD BE! In a midengined design, I would be concerned about this one factor more than anything else.

Honestly, in a midengined car, I would be looking 6L80 before a T56 due to this factor.

Allthebest, Paul

 

[Toms007]

Thanks for jumping in here Paul. You can give insight into things most of us (mostly me) are only guessing about.

 

[mitchberry]

well dang... (and thank you!)

i see what you mean about the shifter, makes total sense. I've never been under a vette on a lift, so there are a lot of things that i'd understand a little better if i had.


i dunno.. i'm starting to think about taking this plan in another direction.

i see vette .. um.... not even sure what you'd call it, but, motor, transmission, steering, torque tube, complete undercarriages on ebay all the time for relatively cheap. maybe i should re-design my idea to use that. but i'd prefer a mid-rear.

long story short, i'm not doing a kit car, i've been working on a design for a street legal road racer, and have started buying little things here and there that i will need over the last few years. buddy of mine does carbon fiber for hennessey, another buddy of mine builds tube chassis rally/pro modified/alcohol funny cars, and everything between (professionally), and i know my share of LS tuners, and i have a bad ass auto cad guy putting my thoughts together on it. after busting my butt to get everything together, i'm almost ready to dump some cash into the materials (i have already bought fiberglass...... yeah, i can't afford carbon fiber, but some of it will be skinned with fiber for looks. if these go into production, there will be an all carbon fiber option). and the tube chassis guy is waiting for me to bring him some tube... but even up until the last minute, i'm

struggling

to decide on a reasonably priced power plant and drivetrain... i'm not rich, i don't have tons of money, no investors, i'm doing this on my own with a lot of help from friends who happen to all have a common goal in mind.

with that said. i love the GTM Supercars, and i loooooove vettes.. i love LS motors, etc, but the one gripe i have about the GTM supercar is that it is a corvette with a different body on it. you use mostly corvette donor parts. (though the chassis as far as i can tell is absolutely superior to a stock vette minus the latest model maybe? don't know that for sure, it could be marketing hype...) I don't really want to do that in the grand scheme of things. You may as well soup up a vette. You know? but for now, i'll do whatever i can do.

I DO have a 99 camaro SS with the G2 package on it, i can gut to make use of a lot of the components, and buy the drive train for a vette, and re-design it as a mid engine car (which my cad guy (solid works actually) would kill me over) but i don't know. mid rear sounds much cooler aside from the expensive to build porsche transaxle. you have to flip them upside down, do a lot of machine work, re-gear them, and lots of things to make them work.

i wonder what people are putting in the GT40 kits. probably porsche boxes. if i didn't have such a hatred for ford and had a LOT more money, i'd get a motor/trans out of a modern gt40 and start there.

i dunno. if some of these supercars can fit V12's in there without making the driver sit on top of the front axle, i'm sure i can make my original question work. lol....