News: Vexed over a less than vintage Vette

[Rob]

Vexed over a less than vintage Vette

By Thomas J. Prohaska, News Niagara Bureau
Published: July 29, 2012, 10:59 PM

NORTH TONAWANDA - A car collector's complaint has led to criminal charges against a man who sold him a 1966 Chevrolet Corvette, alleging that the Vehicle Identification Number plate on the classic sports car was forged.

Robert C. Ernst, of North Tonawanda, who said he found about the problem when he and his car were disqualified from a car show in Ontario, is accusing Ronald A. Ellis, of Wilson, of ripping him off.

"I'm out $75,000," Ernst said. "He knew the value of the car [on the collectors market] wouldn't be there without the original VIN tag on it."

Full Story: Vexed over a less than vintage Vette - Twin Cities - The Buffalo News

 

[Huskerman]

Gotta give the NCRS a hand, they were right on top of it.......didn't I hear somebody say that there are more big block mid year's running around then were ever made? Ya gotta do your homework...

 

[Tom Bryant]

Yes. You need to compare the VIN and trim tag and the way they are mounted with known authentic originals when you buy one of these cars. Way too many have been monkeyed with.

Tom

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Not so fast. The car sounds like it may simply have a state issued VIN tag:

"The investigation showed that the car was originally sold in 1966 by a Chevy dealer in Georgia. It was stolen in that state and eventually recovered by police sometime between 1966 and 1969.

Ernst said the Georgia Department of Motor Vehicles then placed the GA7558 sticker on the car because the original VIN plate had been removed."

If this is true, then it's not a 'counterfeit' and the judges were wrong for disqualifying the car. NCRS rules allow for and make no deduction for bona fide state (or province ) issued VIN tags. There's also no law against buying and selling cars so equipped although they tend to bring less money than original VIN tag cars. Sounds like the seller did no wrong and the buyer didn't do his due diligence. The state sticker was an easy to see dead give away. A counterfeiter would have removed it.

His allegations:

"He alleges that Ellis removed it and made a new one, forging it using a number from the Corvette's transmission. "Apparently, the transmission never left the car," the collector said."

may just land him in hot water. :ugh

 

[Rob]

Additional News: Fake Corvette ID yields charges for NY man - UPI.com

 

[Mac]

The list of charges is interesting, to say the least...

third-degree grand larceny, second-degree criminal possession of a forged instrument, forgery of a VIN, illegal possession of a VIN and five counts of offering a false instrument for filing

Ellis is innocent until proved guilty, of course...

-Mac​

 

[Mac]

Yes. You need to compare the VIN and trim tag and the way they are mounted with known authentic originals when you buy one of these cars. Way too many have been monkeyed with.

Tom

Only if you are a collector or playing the NCRS game. If you want a midyear and don't care about originality or you're going to go resto-rod or whatever, the VIN/trim tag aren't issues so long as the car isn't stolen.

I suspect there's more to this story. After all, the guy complaining doesn't strike me as the kind to be fooled that easily.

-Mac

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Only if you are a collector or playing the NCRS game. If you want a midyear and don't care about originality or you're going to go resto-rod or whatever, the VIN/trim tag aren't issues so long as the car isn't stolen.

I suspect there's more to this story. After all, the guy complaining doesn't strike me as the kind to be fooled that easily.

-Mac

The latest set of judging rules have had a serious impact on the value of any C2 Corvette if there's a non-factory trim tag, not to mention the legal implications of bogus VIN tags discussed above. What previously might have been decent car for a restorer to pour his money into has now been relegated to 'hands off' status. C3s are next.

 

[67vet]

You know the statement that there are "More Big Block Corvettes Driving around than were ever made." is very scary.

Quite a chance for some under the table fraud.

We all have to do our homework.

 

[orlandjoe]

Why drive a small block when you can drop a 454 under the hood of a saved C2

 

[Tom Bryant]

The way I understand it is that the car went through several owners with the Georgia issued ID plate. That was a legal plate and would not disqualify the car. It would not get any points though because it is not original.

The problem seems to be that Ellis (or some other person) removed the Georgia issued plate and installed a reproduction of the original plate that was not identical in appearance when compared to originals. Suspicions were raised with the judging team and they were forced to disqualify the car. Even if he could have installed a perfect reproduction of the VIN tag how did he get the title changed?

Tom

 

[67vet]

When you purchase an old car in North Carolina, a DMV cop comes to visit.
They look at the paperwork, the VIN plate and the frame numbers.
They take photos of the VIN plate to prevent what happened here.

When he is all done - he says - I'll call you in the morning to tell you we
will impound your car - or you will get your new title in 30 days.

He said that the car they see the most being impounded here is the older Camaro.

Roger

 

[LT4man]

Why drive a small block when you can drop a 454 under the hood of a saved C2

Nice to hear from you, Joe!

I have seen your Vette in person and I can attest to your statement!

Here's waving at ya, buddy!

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

The way I understand it is that the car went through several owners with the Georgia issued ID plate. That was a legal plate and would not disqualify the car. It would not get any points though because it is not original.

The problem seems to be that Ellis (or some other person) removed the Georgia issued plate and installed a reproduction of the original plate that was not identical in appearance when compared to originals. Suspicions were raised with the judging team and they were forced to disqualify the car. Even if he could have installed a perfect reproduction of the VIN tag how did he get the title changed?

Tom

How do we know that the tag on the car today is NOT the tag issued back in the '60s? Anybody here an expert on how state issued tags were dealt with 50 years ago when the car was stolen and recovered?

For reference, a state issued tag carries no penalty in NCRS, there's no points 'added' for an OEM tag or taken away for a state issued.

 

[Tom Bryant]

How do we know that the tag on the car today is NOT the tag issued back in the '60s? Anybody here an expert on how state issued tags were dealt with 50 years ago when the car was stolen and recovered?

The article says that he GA7558 sticker was applied after the car was recovered between '66 and '69.

It is a little strange. Ernst says it "had this weird sticker on it GA7558" Then later in the article he says it was removed by Ellis and replaced with the fake original plate before Earnst bought it. How did he know it had the GA7558 if all this happened before he bought the car and they only found out about the GA7558 and the theft after the investigation?

 

[Mac]

Like I said, there's more to this story than meets the eye...

Mikey, if the new rules are seriously impacting the value of C2s, does that mean we can expect a flood of FrankeVettes coming available for cheap?

-Mac

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

The article says that he GA7558 sticker was applied after the car was recovered between '66 and '69.

It is a little strange. Ernst says it "had this weird sticker on it GA7558" Then later in the article he says it was removed by Ellis and replaced with the fake original plate before Earnst bought it. How did he know it had the GA7558 if all this happened before he bought the car and they only found out about the GA7558 and the theft after the investigation?

Good sleuthing- it's almost like you're a cop or something!

 

[Tom Bryant]

:L And I only had to read it 4 times to pick up on that.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Like I said, there's more to this story than meets the eye...

Mikey, if the new rules are seriously impacting the value of C2s, does that mean we can expect a flood of FrankeVettes coming available for cheap?

-Mac

I would think so, but still priced in the stratosphere compared out our poor '73s.