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Z06 Options

M

mark_18

Guest
Well I know this is hot topic so its worth
bringing up again and again until Chevy gets it right.

The Z06 is a wonderful car and everyone knows by now about the additional 20 hp in 2002.

But I'm sorry, the repulsive hard top is not for me. I've also noticed that these Z06's are NOT selling like hot cakes. Hey, what has made this car the legendary car that it has become is the convertible, especially since the C5, not a rugged looking hard top. To deprive LS6 performance to a convertible is a shame - and I'm ****ed off about it. I'm tired of hearing that "Race Car" excuse. I nearly cursed at a salesman when I heard that for the third time! The convertible look along with LS6 performance will clerly and finally place the Vette in a class of its own. Why do they have to screw up a good thing? I've called them to let them know you usually get some bimbo at Chevy customer service who doesn't know what a Z06 is. Hey if I won a Z06 HardTop in a Lottery, I'd sell the damn thing.

As a convertible owner since the 80's I feel like I just had my heart ripped out. My '99 TORCH RED 6 speed will be up for sale this week and it will be painful to sell it. But this was the last straw for me. I'll be corvetteless for the next year and will kick back in my GS300 cursing GM every mile I drive. I'll give Chevy one last shot during the 50th but after that its DODGE CITY since I never touch the 1st year of a major design change (2004). I need a break from these boneheads.
 

CorvetteArchives

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2001
Messages
549
Location
Carbon County, PA
Corvette
1984 Z51 Silver/Gray & as Much SS & CFibre we find
I think the problem is.......they know they can sell each and every unit...since they are purposely limiting production of EVERY Corvette (operating below capacity)...so? guess what? they really DONT CARE what U or I think!!!!!

People buy the Vette because 1) name loyalty 2)its a "decent" sports car 3) image

...for every car enthusiast they lose due to inept design and mediocracy.......there is some new shmuck buying one for their mid life crisis or to impress their friends who drive boring cars............they may tweek a thing or 2 based on customer response but in the overall picture even profit isnt the bottom line (Vette $ is minuscule in the big GM picture)..... they could make alot more $ at full production but would lose the exclusivity and prestige of the Vette's "exotic" image....they could crank em out like cavaliers BUT the Vette IS MAINLY an Image thing at GM just as with so many of their customers..

..sure they useVette as a test bed for new technology they use on other cars ......but we know how well that worked out...(like when they lost the limousine market because they used "unibody" construction on Caddys)

..... so they do what their PR guys say balanced with spending as little $ as possible to fool people into thinking they've got a "new and better car"...they string loyal Vette owners along by saying they're gonna cancel the Vette completely so they feel "blessed" with any ugly thing they send off the assembly like with a Vette badge on it ...........
 
K

KK1727

Guest
I don't know if I agree with either of you. True, the Corvette will never be a 400,000 dollar Ferrari, or a 130,000 dollar Porsche. But it has and hopefully always will be a two seater sports car extradinaire that I CAN afford. I doubt I'll ever see the day when I can afford the Viper at it's pricey 70,000 dollar plus tag. Sure there's always things that could be better. True with most cars. Nobody out there makes one off cars that I can afford. But for the money the Corvette is the best all around sports car to buy, it always has been, it still is, and I sure hope it always will be. I suggest that if you are truly into the Vette, but want more out of it. Take that extra money you would spend on another car and send that C5 to Tom Callaway. Then you'll have spent what it cost to buy a Viper, and you'll be driving a car that roasts on Ferrari's. Just my .02
 
S

ssvett

Guest
Yea, I kinda like for the tops to come off or go down, and I think that engine option should be available in all styles, But we need to remember...............the 67 coupe or the 63 "split window" is pretty popular, and the tops don't come off of them.............................Steve
 
M

mark_18

Guest
KK1727,

You make an excellent point and offer good financial advice - but I'm way ahead of you. Usually when I think of doing something, sometimes it can be out of frustration resulting in a compulsive thought. But I've learned that if I wait long enough, I'll think of a better way.

First let me say on 2 occasions, I tried selling my '99. To show you how far I took this, I have a rather expensive car-audio system that I purchased from Sound Advice. I took out the system and reinstalled the factory system. "OK," I said, "This puppy is ready to be sold." But I just couldn't do it. One guy, who came from a distance, was ****ed off and I was quite embarrased. The first guy, a neighbor of mine, completely understood. Both were willing to offer $38K for the car. The irony is the tactic which I employed to impress the buyers, putting the top down, was the same thing that prevented me from selling her. She just looked too good and looked even better when the buyers arrived.

With that said, you suggested LPE. I thought of LPE as well - lots of bucks, perhaps equal to selling and buying new. But the true light at the end of the tunnel was when I found SC applications by VOTREC and PROCHARGER. Even though they are around $12K, it started to look better. Then ARE revealed his TT (I prefer Turbo over SC) on the corvette forum. This I liked and so did many other owners - its probably the hottest topic going on any forum.

So thats where I am. Now I could be one of the first ones with the TT. I mean any week now Nick will begin installs. But I won't jump in - I'll
patiently await the results of ARE's first 20 installs (I think half the C5 population is doing the same), and then I'll go from there. SC is still a possibility, but Z06-smoking performance is right around the corner, hopefully with minimal or no problems, and I'll have my vert to boot.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2001
Messages
21
Location
MA
Corvette
93 RUBY Coupe-6Speed,Z07
mark_18 said:
KK1727,

You make an excellent point and offer good financial advice - but ...SNIP!...
have my vert to boot.

Have you seen this months corvettemagazine.com on John Cafaro's convertible Z06. It's from a company in Canada - Caraviggio's Corvettes. Basicly, they are another LPE type company. Go to http://www.caravaggiocorvettes.com/
For those that have the money, ofcourse.
-John
 

Hib Halverson

Technical Writer for Internet & Print Media
Joined
Jan 10, 2001
Messages
13,453
Location
CenCoast CA
Corvette
71 04 12 19
What you need, Mark 18, is not a Corvette because, really, you don't seem like a Corvette kinda guy. It's the weight of all those gold chains around your neck. They make you bent-over and you look all old and stuff.
:)
You need a luxury GT convertible....like the C6-based Cadillac luxury roadster that's coming in 03. My guess is power will be a 375-400hp, supercharged, new-gen. Northstar system with equal the performance and more of that kick-back luxury you are missing in a non-existant, LS6-powered convertible. Plus, you get all the leading-edge, Cadillac electronic gizmos the Corvette lacks.

My advice?
Take the money you get from selling your red convertible down to your Caddy dealer and put a deposit on an '03 roadster.
 

danl72

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
678
Location
Chatsworth, CA
Corvette
2008 C6 Coupe
I am not a real fan of the hard top, but I would take a Z06 anyday. One second thought, I would take any Corvette from any year anyday.
 
S

sigung86

Guest
Interesting take on the Z06. I don't own one myself, but I do own a 99 Fixed Roof Coupe. I was doing all the "mature" things. Saving my bucks for the new C5, having recently gotten rid of my 86 vert. Went to Elco Chevrolet in Ballwin, MO. They had my Torch Red FRC sitting there, looking sporty, aggressive, and powerful. I felt like a teenager in heat again! :(

Took a test drive in heavy Saturday traffic and on the open interstate. Came back, walked around it and took in the view, and plunked down my bucks.

I will, in a few years, own a Z06, or sooner if I hit the bigtime! :D
But even at that I would keep the 99. It is 12% more rigid, 80 pounds lighter, and a cat's whisker faster than the 99 coupe, or convertible. It doesn't have all the electrical gidgies that are famous on Corvettes. As a matter of fact, I've heard it referred to as the Billy-Bob Corvette, because some folks don't want to be bothered with driving, having to adjust things themselves, and enjoying the feel of a basic speed demon.:confused

I don't care if I drive up the street looking cool with the wind blowing my hair around. I am not bothered that I won't be in any parade with the high school queen sitting on the back and throwing candy. (Been there and done that). And I'm not particularly bothered if someone else doesn't think it's cute or cool. I do like getting from point A to B quickly, and feeling good about what I'm driving while getting there.

Boy did that sound like a rant! Sorry! :s
 
R

rjsmith

Guest
mark_18 said:
Well I know this is hot topic so its worth
bringing up again and again until Chevy gets it right.

The Z06 is a wonderful car and everyone knows by now about the additional 20 hp in 2002.

But I'm sorry, the repulsive hard top is not for me. I've also noticed that these Z06's are NOT selling like hot cakes. Hey, what has made this car the legendary car that it has become is the convertible, especially since the C5, not a rugged looking hard top. To deprive LS6 performance to a convertible is a shame - and I'm ****ed off about it. I'm tired of hearing that "Race Car" excuse. I nearly cursed at a salesman when I heard that for the third time! The convertible look along with LS6 performance will clerly and finally place the Vette in a class of its own. Why do they have to screw up a good thing? I've called them to let them know you usually get some bimbo at Chevy customer service who doesn't know what a Z06 is. Hey if I won a Z06 HardTop in a Lottery, I'd sell the damn thing.

As a convertible owner since the 80's I feel like I just had my heart ripped out. My '99 TORCH RED 6 speed will be up for sale this week and it will be painful to sell it. But this was the last straw for me. I'll be corvetteless for the next year and will kick back in my GS300 cursing GM every mile I drive. I'll give Chevy one last shot during the 50th but after that its DODGE CITY since I never touch the 1st year of a major design change (2004). I need a break from these boneheads.

Let me see if I understand your logic correctly.

You like Corvette convertibles. You think the FRC is ugly. You would like to be able to purchase a Corvette convertible with the LS6 engine. That's not currently possible, so in order to express your displeasure with Chevrolet, you are selling your Corvette convertible after only two years of ownership, and vowing to never again own a Corvette, with the possible exception of the 50th Anniversary Edition. Does that about sum up your position?

If you stop and think about it a moment, the FRC looks very similar to a convertible with the hard roof option. A case can be made that the Corvette convertible is drop-dead gorgeous with the top down (I concur), but ugly with the top up. I'm not saying it is, merely that there are those out there who might feel that way.

The one saving grace about driving a Z06 is that I can not see the (arguable) ugliness when I am driving the car. Others may perceive ugliness in the styling, and be offended by it, but not for long, since they can't keep up with it. All they see is that big butt, which the car shares with the other two models, disappearing into the distance.

It may be a well-worn cliche but beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. After living with the car for 8 months the styling is actually starting to look pretty damn good, even if only in a Bauhaus sense.

I am curious about one thing. How do you know that the customer service representative at Chevrolet with whom you spoke was a "bimbo". Did she solicit you? Do you have her number?

Ray

Warning: the following photo may contain subject matter disturbing to some viewers. Parental discretion is advised. It is rated PG-13.
 

Edmond

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2001
Messages
5,218
Location
Louisiana
Corvette
2003 Z06
rjsmith,

That is one cool pic you got there!:upthumbs I have to agree with your statement that the convertible is beautiful when the top is down, but ugly when it's up. But then again, that's the way all convertibles are.

The high performance of the Z06 would probably be compromised in some ways if the LS6 was put into a convertible with the body stiffness, aerodynamics, etc...

Of course, you could always mod your convertible to the point where it puts out Z06 type numbers right?
 
V

vettepilot

Guest
Well,
One could change all the suspension components on a Coupe or Vert with the FE4 components, replace the transmission with the M12 from the ZO6, replace the LS1 with the LS6, replace the windshield with the ZO6 windshield, replace the Sport seats with the ZO6 seats, take out all the sound insulation like the ZO6, change the F1 EMTs to F1 Supercar tires of the ZO6 size along with the ZO6 size wheels, replace your front air deflectors with stainless steel screens in the front facia, replace the air filter housing with the larger intake housing of the ZO6, install the rear brake ductwork and screens, replace the front brake pads with the ZO6 pads, replace the stainless steel exhaust with the Ti system, and nice sound, and finally, add a couple of ZO6 badges to the front fenders. But the car would still weigh more than a Z, (either the Coupe or Vert), and the VIN would not have an S in it twenty years down the road from now.
From what I have gathered, most of those driving the Coupe and Verts probably would not ike the idea of cleaning the brake dust from the front wheels every 100 -150 miles either. And I have to actually get out of my car to catch some rays.... Oh those shameless Corvette engineers just look at what they have done. I can't take my roof off!
I think the Vette Engineers were right on target with the Z, in fact they could have pushed the "race car" thing even further by offering deleted options, eg. no A/C, radio delete etc, for those who actually do put these on a track regularly. I don't think I would opt for those deletions, but I'm sure there are those serious enough about performance that would.
BTW, the FRC profile begins to grow on you just like that rear end did in the early years of the C5. You know it's a Z from a half mile away because of the profile.
vettepilot
 
R

rjsmith

Guest
Corvette1984 said:
I think the problem is.......they know they can sell each and every unit...since they are purposely limiting production of EVERY Corvette (operating below capacity)...so? guess what? they really DONT CARE what U or I think!!!!!

People buy the Vette because 1) name loyalty 2)its a "decent" sports car 3) image

...for every car enthusiast they lose due to inept design and mediocracy [sic] .......there is some new shmuck buying one for their mid life crisis or to impress their friends who drive boring cars............they may tweek a thing or 2 based on customer response but in the overall picture even profit isnt the bottom line (Vette $ is minuscule in the big GM picture)..... they could make alot more $ at full production but would lose the exclusivity and prestige of the Vette's "exotic" image....they could crank em out like cavaliers BUT the Vette IS MAINLY an Image thing at GM just as with so many of their customers..

..sure they useVette as a test bed for new technology they use on other cars ......but we know how well that worked out...(like when they lost the limousine market because they used "unibody" construction on Caddys)

..... so they do what their PR guys say balanced with spending as little $ as possible to fool people into thinking they've got a "new and better car"...they string loyal Vette owners along by saying they're gonna cancel the Vette completely so they feel "blessed" with any ugly thing they send off the assembly like with a Vette badge on it ...........

I'm just curious: Have you ever been to the Bowling Green Assembly plant? I have, and from what I saw they are not limiting production due to some nefarious plot. They build as many cars as they receive orders for, whether that be a customer special order, or dealer orders for stock.

The first year (MY '97) production was low (9,752 coupes), but that was due more to the fact that it was the first year for the new generation. When the assembly line gremlins were worked out in MY '98 they produced 31,084 vehicles. MY '99 saw 33,270 units produced, MY '00 33,682, and 35,627 in MY '01. If anything this is a rising trend. Remember that in 1979, and again in 1984, they produced over 50,000 Corvettes.

As to your assertion that

for every car enthusiast they lose due to inept design and mediocracy there is some new shmuck buying one for their mid life crisis or to impress their friends who drive boring cars

Well, I guess I'm a schmuck whose mid-life crisis began in 1965 at the age of 19 when I bought a '65 327/300. I purchased four more in the intervening years, the latest being an '01 Z06. I suppose this has got to be the world's longest running mid-life crisis. But I do plead guilty to 5 counts of impressing my friends (and total strangers), especially the ones who do not drive boring cars.

Chevrolet, like any other company looking to stay in business, targets potential customers who possess effective demand. That is, someone who wants one, and has the means to buy one. They ask these people what they want and then try to give it to them. An example is the elimination of the high sill height of the C4 on the C5 . I was actually paid, in late 1993, to test and rate various features of the C5. Two of the things they seemed most concerned with was the sill height, and the trunk opening height. I was there (in Cypress, CA) along with dozens of other owners of sports cars. The names of potential participants for these surveys are drawn from lists of people who have purchased expensive vehicles (including Corvettes). Chevrolet cares what these people think. Within reason, they try to provide a product these people will want to purchase. But they truly don't care what people think who can not demonstrate effective demand.

Your belief that profit is not the bottom line would not get you far in business school. They are in business to make a profit. Every division, and every car model, must show an adequate rate of return on investment (ROI). If there is little or no ROI, they could put the money required to design, market, produce, and service these vehicles into U.S. Savings Bonds and get a better deal with no risk.

And finally, as to your opinion that

they string loyal Vette owners along

Can you define "loyal Vette owner" for me? According to your profile, the last time you bought a new one was in 1984. If you bought it used, then Chevrolet did not benefit from the transaction, so where is the loyalty?

I don't want to start a flame war here, I'm just providing a bit of counterbalancing logic.


Ray
 

Edmond

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2001
Messages
5,218
Location
Louisiana
Corvette
2003 Z06
Vettepilot,

I thought about that possibility myself and thought that the Z06 and convertible are only a few hundred $'s apart right? Well, if they put those Z06 features on a convertible and tuned the convertible to put up Z06 type numbers, they'd probably have to raise the cost. :(
 
R

rjsmith

Guest
BullWinkle said:
rjsmith,

That is one cool pic you got there!:upthumbs I have to agree with your statement that the convertible is beautiful when the top is down, but ugly when it's up. But then again, that's the way all convertibles are.

The high performance of the Z06 would probably be compromised in some ways if the LS6 was put into a convertible with the body stiffness, aerodynamics, etc...

Of course, you could always mod your convertible to the point where it puts out Z06 type numbers right?

You are right about a convertible owner being able to sink more money into the car to provide equal or better performance than a Z06. And if they want to do that, and know what they are getting themselves into, I say "go for it".

But if you recall the history of high performance Vettes of the Mid-60s, you'll remember that Chevy would not offer the ultimate racing-intended packages to convertible buyers on the theory that they would complain about the bumpy idle, loud noise, and harsh ride. You could, if you could arrange a COPO, get a monster engine in a convertible (I believe there are some surviving examples) but that was the exception rather than the rule.

I don't think Chevrolet wants to risk a repeat of the 1984 Z51 hysteria that gripped first the automotive press, and then customers. Hence, no LS6 in a convertible. You may see the LS6 in the removable roof coupe (RRC) in the not too distant future, but I doubt whether it will ever be offered in the convertible.

Just my opinion, and I have been wrong before (I picked the Flyers to win the Stanley Cup last year).

Ray

P.S. I never said the convertible was ugly with the soft top up, I said there are those who feel that way. With the top down, most Covette generations were (and are) among the most gorgeous cars on the road.
 
V

vettepilot

Guest
Hey RJ, Hey BullWinkle, How's it going?
Thinking outloud here...
You know another thing about the ZO6, I don't think Chevrolet ever intended for it to appeal to everybody [the FRC that is], and it's no secret how it was marketed as a limited production very high performance Vette. They had to have a really good feeling who their target audience was when they developed the vehicle and intentionally left out the sound insulation, no 12 disc CD changer option, and no sport seats to just name a few items that most Corvette owners like to have. Throughout the Corvette history when special editions were developed there usually were compromises in the form of required option packages, or in some cases required deletions in trim levels, equipment, or as we see in the case of today's ZO6 being available only in the lighterweight FRC, then they shaved weight from that.
Corvette isn't the only vehicle that this applies to, that's throughout the automotive world.
Oh and as far as leading on "Loyal Corvette Owners", no more than BMW and Mercedes strings along their loyal owners.
In fact I salute all those automotive brand owners who will stand up for what they like, regardless whether I happen to like their brand of car or not. It's their right to do so, I don't have to agree, or purchase the product unless I decide to do so.
The world would be a pretty boring place if we all looked, thought, acted, and walked the same.
vettepilot




PS: RJ, I picked the Flyers too :cry


vettepilot
 
L

legend

Guest
Vert. decision??

I just demo'd a Vert. on the day I was to sign for a Z06. I was very impressed at the ride and road manners of the vert!! It was a better ride than my coupe and the noise levels with the top down were not bad at all. The radio sounded better and overall was dam impressed with the vert . I was VERY close to changing my decision and was going to buy the vert, but the dealer said to me to wait until 2005 and but the vert than as it will have the 405 HP which is what I really want. So I did buy the Z06 and will have to deal with it ( Oh Boy!!) until 2005 LOL!!!
 
R

rjsmith

Guest
Re: Vert. decision??

legend said:
I was VERY close to changing my decision and was going to buy the vert, but the dealer said to me to wait until 2005 and but the vert than as it will have the 405 HP which is what I really want.

Salesmen will say anything to close a deal. You made the right move. Good luck with the car.

Ray
 

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