Z06 vs. Ford's new GT

[1FASTDOG]

I hate to say this, being a C-5 owner, but I predict the GT-40 will smoke just about anything out there--500 BHP and 500 ft lbs of torque.Its fairly small and will really rule the road, handling and speed.(looks aint bad either)All the write ups I've read just love her and I saw the originals beat Ferrari at Daytona years ago with a lesser engine.If I had the 150K .. I'd buy it in a heart beat - it will be a collectors car and go UP in value..Don't take trips in it tho' no trunk/ cargo space at all!!!

What makes you think what Ford is dropping into the GT is a far superior engine to a 427 side oiler in competition trim from Holman & Moody? It'll be an interesting car but not a GT40.

The 6th gen Z06 will have little problem in any department with the GT, other than those that want to drop exotic money... for them don't sell GM short in the future.

 

[1FASTDOG]

You wanna talk bang for the buck...I just sold a Fiero with small block V8 that would blow the doors off almost any Corvette. GM axed the Fiero in 88 because all the big guys at GM (and Corvette) realized after watching the 89 Fiero GT prototype on test track that it would kill Corvette sales. Vettes at the time were 2-3 times the Fiero price and the little Pontiac in 89 would have had similar performance for $18-20K. Now get really weird, how about perf numbers of vette matched by Chrylser Neon S4 for less than $20K compared to $55K for a base model vette?

See, its all in what you want.

Or in what you want to dream. P body with a small block is a fun piece. I owned 3 P body cars and they were fun cars. I think having owned 3 between 84 and 86 is a fair background. Let's not get too worked up though as they were X body in the rear and Chevette in the front. Nice car but never dropped because it was a 'vette threat... just isn't what took place. They live on in the Saturn though. They sold like crazy from 84-86 and then goodbye. They were no where torsionally stiff enough to be serious handling cars. 2600 pounds is sweet, 2750 or so with a smallblock, but you'd be at 3000 pounds with sturdy enough components to handle any serious V-8. There still is not abundance of that sort of transaxle layout that's got enough beef to not grenade. The Fiero would have had to undergo a longer wheelbase to be validated with a truly proper transaxle that was up to the task. For lack of a better description, the P car was a swapped ended X-car as far as driveline goes. There's a reason you don't see major HP front wheel drive cars, which the Fiero actually was, just turned around...

The Caddy Cien is worlds ahead of the Ford GT on every front but mystique. If the market is deep enough to sustain a 100K+ GM car the Cien will hit production. In today's world of performance 500 HP for over $125K is not stratospheric nor really impressive. Ford still can't make a light production sports car. The only reason Ford is opting for a retro GT is because they are desparate to show the world they haven't completely lost touch.

 

[JBsC5]

Re: VETTE VS FORD GT

HI GUYS!
I don't mean to be rude -- but the Ford GT smokes the Z06.
Now before you will all prey on me - lets get something clear.
I am an avid GM fan - and dislike the Ford product.
There is a colossal difference between 116 mph in the quarter mile (Z06 #'s) and the GT's 121/122. IT is a huge difference!
I assume that the next Z06 will generate these #'s as well.
Hope I am right - or better yet hope I am wrong and it will be faster than 121.
David

2004 z06 vs. Ford GT at Nuremburg (sp) would be interesting.

Hope it happens ...that would be cool.

Throw the viper srt in too..

American icons take to Europe..

That would make for a great magazine cover.

All great cars with a different focus!

 

[1FASTDOG]

Re: Re: VETTE VS FORD GT

2004 z06 vs. Ford GT at Nuremburg (sp) would be interesting.

Hope it happens ...that would be cool.

Throw the viper srt in too..

American icons take to Europe..

That would make for a great magazine cover.

All great cars with a different focus!

For a Z06 comparo you'll have to wait 'til 2005. I somewhat doubt Ford will kepp doing GT's for long. I think it's a short run halo car and the money isn't there to keep producing them unless they go Ferrari in money.

 

[1FASTDOG]

Its almost a sure bet some will show up in American LeMans Series or Rolex series. Lot of the same (but improved tech) as the Saleen S-7.

One would think. Ford is more interested in selling Aston Martins...look for AM in ALMS before you see Ford run a GT.

 

[1FASTDOG]

I personally think we have reached the limits in street cars. Once you got cars down into the 3-4 second 0-60 times your there. I dont think your ever going to see a 2 second 0-60 car except on the drag strip. So if one car a 1/10 of a second slower is not that big a deal. Not everyone is out for speed. I have a 308 Ferrari and its pretty fast but not all that...I have it for the style. Same for my GT40, I just like the looks and it will prob be lucky to ever see 100MPH. Althought I like Vettes, and own one now, guess which ones people point and stare at going down the road even if its only 35MPH. (clue...its not the vette ....)

700HP is the limit for street cars IMO.

308 Ferraris are very sweet looking cars, but slow as dead lice unless high 14's in the 1/4 is considered special. As for track cars... did anyone ever campaign one? Talk to anyone at Ferrari now and they might tell you the 308 was a particular low point for the GT Ferrari. Magnum P.I. sold a lot of 308's. Even the Quattrovalvole was a dog... Beautiful car, no doubt.

I have the utmost respect for Ferrari and have limited Ferrari ownership experience. I had a 365 GTB4 in the '70's. Nice car to sell at the right time and loads of fun if you lightened it a lot.. Nothing against Ferrari as I respect the original ethos of the marque. Ferrari kicks living butt when they go racing, they live on mystique when it comes to their street cars. The Enzo is charming and no one's fool and bless the management at this point that they understand that without producing a real product there will be no racing.

You want a real Ferrari and you will pay for the admission fee or settle for a Fiat with a horse on it. If you insist on a Ferrari being a daily drive too, it will not be a fast one.

When you opt to track a car you go for the one that delivers. The atmosphere is always expensive, be it cars or restaurants. When the flag drops the atmosphere gets thin.

The trouble with cars is that it does come down to money and value. The best car I ever drove was a McLaren GTR and there you go. Would I drop a million for a car? Nope. One could purchase a lackluster Formula one car for equivalent money or less and get a superior experience. Money always makes a difference unless intangibles get in the way.

I suppose my point is that there are Ferraris and then there are FERRARIS. Ford found a winner in the little Lola they dropped a motor into and their name on. Read the real history on it and you will see they won fair and square with it, but they did it with numbers as in lots of GT40's entered.

Americans all to often gravitate to 0-60 or 1/4 mile references. Europeans gravtate to intangibles such as vicarious associations to heritage. On either side of the water are some that decide what is important and what delivers value.

No big deal one way or the other when spending your own money. In actuality the cars that bring something more than their owners project on them is a measure of true value.

 

[f111vette]

What makes you think what Ford is dropping into the GT is a far superior engine to a 427 side oiler in competition trim from Holman & Moody? It'll be an interesting car but not a GT40.

The 6th gen Z06 will have little problem in any department with the GT, other than those that want to drop exotic money... for them don't sell GM short in the future.

 

[f111vette]

What makes you think what Ford is dropping into the GT is a far superior engine to a 427 side oiler in competition trim from Holman & Moody? It'll be an interesting car but not a GT40.

The 6th gen Z06 will have little problem in any department with the GT, other than those that want to drop exotic money... for them don't sell GM short in the future.

---- What's so special about the Z06 engine????I think GM sells us short by not supplying a BETTER engine in all C-5's,- I see too many cars out now that have as much horspower ( i/e the "new" GTO) as the corvette- we are being reduced to a lesser stature in the power car arena- I'm a little ****ed...or should I say we are not "far superior" any longer..???.

 

[JBsC5]

1fastdog,

That was a good read. I don't agree with all that you said as the 360 modena has for years been quite an excellent performer..

Now its time has come to evolve as the Lamboghini Gallardo has eclisped it...IMHO..

Same for the Ford GT.

All three of the cars mentioned above are running about 160 grand. Give or take ten grand.

The Z06 is all of about 50 g's...and its dam close.

The next evolution of the Corvette Z06 will smoke these cars..Again just a guess but a good one at that..At the very least for about half the cost it will run dead even.

The Viper SRT is also an american icon that will give fits to the European contigent.

Hope we get to see a track run at the "ring" I'd still put the present Z at near the topof the heap.

I believe this article would sell a ton of mags..

Hope one of them picks this idea up..

Think they will? (I can only hope its not be a lame figure eight)

 

[1FASTDOG]

---- What's so special about the Z06 engine????I think GM sells us short by not supplying a BETTER engine in all C-5's,- I see too many cars out now that have as much horspower ( i/e the "new" GTO) as the corvette- we are being reduced to a lesser stature in the power car arena- I'm a little ****ed...or should I say we are not "far superior" any longer..???.

The Z06 is pretty much a head and cam version of the LS1 engine wise.

Time marches on and there's a horsepower war on at the present time. People wanted Z06 power in a coupe and convertible and I think you will find that to be coming in the next generation.

As for engines being limited in what configuration they can be bought..nothing new. Try getting an L88 in '67 with a heater...

Federal standards for validating engines will likely never again allow the sort of choices available from the RPO book.

 

[Hib Halverson]

For about a year, the Ford GT will be the big-dog but by 2006 when the performance version of C6 (which will probably be called Z06, again) arrives, it may not have the same horsepower as the GT but it will be about 400 lbs lighter so, because of a more favorable power-to-weight ratio, it will perform as well as the GT....that's with what will probably be a 6.3 or 6.4-liter engine at about 450 hp.

Coming later will be another C6-based vehicle with even more performance. This is the "ZL-1" that the weekly auto press has been talking about. Expect 7.0L and 500 hp from that baby. It'll be the "ZR-1" of the late 00s.

Interestingly the current LS6's specific output is about 1.17. When you back that into 500hp you get 427 cid. Coincidence?

 

[f111vette]

Thats a fair reply and my understanding as well as to ZO6 power difference.I asked that question at the factory tour and got the same response.My point is(however retrospective) is That GM with its premier power pony the Corvette- should see to it that its product stays ahead of the game, power wise and sophistication wise. Is a double overhead cam 4 or 5 valve engine out of the question as a stock engine?The Lincoln Aviator gets 302 HP out of a small block 4+ litre V-8.I just feel that for 50 grand its not that difficult to put a newer than pushrod design engine in our babies and more quality in the interior.So yeah I like the fact that Ford will power up the GT at 500 HP stock and I agree it WILL be interesting to see if GM takes the challenge from the new kid on the block..

 

[JBsC5]

Do you guys believe the dynamics of the very quickly developed Ford GT will equal and surpass the Z06's?

Not a flame just a question? Its most probable the answer is yes...I was just curious as that was the last generation Vipers downfall even though it made the hp...

 

[trumperZ06]

Good points Hib & Fast Dog! I still think GM's gotta take the C6 Z06 to 500 hp. simply because....

"every other high performance car" is gonna have 500 ponies!

A 427 will give us the 500 hp. easily!

And its a MAJIC NUMBER too !

The Ford GT "43" may be able to hang with the Current C5 Z06 on a road course... but I don't see where it's faster!

Even if the 1/4 mile times are "reproducable" ( and I don't for a minute trust Road & Crap), the weight, braking, and cornering favors the current Z06!

All the super-charged Cobras we've seen at Road Atlanta are fast down the back straights... but.... seem to over-heat somewhere between 15 and 20 minutes. Those Huffer engines put out a lot of BTU's..... and the GT "43" is a huffer!

They say the General's new 3 valve engine can spin to 7000 rpm. reliably! Thats 500 more than the current Z06 and is up there with most dual-cam 4 or 5 valve engines.

Yep, there are a couple of exceptions... BMW M-3, Porsche GT-3, and Ferrari come to mind. But given the Vette 500 hp./ 500 ft/lbs. should do the job!

Now... Look at the torque available from a "427" and it certainly should allow the C6 Z06 to run with the Exiotics! Why go to the $$$ COST $$$, WEIGHT, and COMPLEXITY associated with the dual- over-head cam engines, if performance is the goal? IMHO... KISS is the best choice for a mass produced super-car... and the General did us PROUD with the C5 Z06!

 

[JBsC5]

I was thinking the same thing..The Z will take
em on a road course...I bet the existing car would.

As far as 1/4mile..we'll have to wait till next generation..

but for the price..the vettes still an awesome package especially in 2004..

Its the new pictures and the C6 that is going to tear up the C5 Z06..

All I can say is that when I look at the C6 photos..that cars very sharp..

GM really has done an excellent styling job on that car..

"crisp" is the word that comes to my mind...

Doesn't totally date the C5..either which I'm glad for.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Do you guys believe the dynamics of the very quickly developed Ford GT will equal and surpass the Z06's?

I'm going to say "Equal? Maybe."
"Surpass?" "Probably not."

One problem the GT will have from a vehicle dynamics standpoing is it will probably weigh about 400 lbs more than the 2006 Z06.

 

[JBsC5]

Thank you for your expert insight.

good to hear the the bowtie boys are still in the game.

JB