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No heat problem. need help solving.

Could you confirm that you do not have a vacuum valve as shown in Junks picture.

You can do what I did with the vacuum hoses and that is to get a very long piece of hose and run it from the vacuum valve to the tee by the cruise. Then take another piece from that tee to the vacuum can. Just make sure you don't have them on the manifold and start the car up and see if the heater starts to work. I think what you are going to find is that you will be replacing a lot of vacuum hose and fittings so buying a lot of vacuum hose to test with will come in handy.

If you do not have that valve then you need to get it back into the system or you will never get good vacuum readings. In my mind that valve is crucial to the whole system working because it obviously diverts vacuum to the heater or cruise as needed. Which would account for higher readings at some points over others.

Finally don't forget that there is a vacuum relief switch on the brake pedal for the cruise and if a manual there would be one on the clutch as well. Do the other checks first and if they do not resolve the problem then look at the brake clutch switch's as a last resort for a leak.
 
Another piece of the puzzle. With bcm removed I could see the door closed to the passenger side. Started the engine, turned control to auto, temp to 90, fan to 10. I coulod see the blend door trying to move. It would open about a quarter inch then try to close, and went back and forth. Used a long screwdriver to push it to the drivers side, and we have heat. Set the temp to 60 and the door moved back towards the passenger side about 1" and stayed there. Is the actuator weak, or not getting the right signal from the programmer. At least she can heat. Its gonna be about 30 here in the morning. I gotta get this working right. Thanks for help so far guys. I'm off to get some vac hose now.
 
John, I'm positive there is no valve. just a tee. Will they have one at my flaps or is that a dealer item? I agree. Being a check valve i'm sure it serves a specific purpose.
 
Update: With the bcm removed, control on auto, temp to 85 or 90 Door will stay shut to the heat side. Drop temp to 84, doorcloses to a/c side. Temp back to 90, door pulsates 1/4". Give door a push and it goes to heat side and pulsates. Twice it went to heat side by itself then reverted to staying on a/c side. Cold air is coming from the bcm hole, and compressor is running constantly. This just seems too erratic to be vacuum related.
 
Its not as simple as that....it is a very complicated electric over vac/mechanical system of actuators.
Control is by sensors for cabin temp and outside air temp. 90 is default for max hot and 60 is default for max cold. Inbetween those numbers the control head decides how much to open the blend door to mix air that flows thru the system. It may open 1/4" or all the way as needed. Don;t force it. Its doing what the control head tells it. Its electronic a/c control. Fully automated.
In your yr IIRC, some doors are electric motors, so DO NOT force the doors. Some will be vac actuated. Odds are that if they do not move as far as they should (if vac) its because the vac signal is weak or leaking. There is a vac leak somewhere. If its an electric door its doing what its told. They are made to constantly move back and forth to regulate temps.
Trace the vac lines, replace in sections as needed. Hard lines crack and break. Underhood, Rubber lines harden when exposed to detergents and degreasers and break. Age causes rubber vac lines to harden and break. There are no short cuts under the dash....the lines in the dash are few, but well hidden. Take the lower dash panels off to see in the area where the harness is hung and the vac lines are strung in the same place as the harness. There are only 2 or 3 supply lines, and whatever run from the programmer/control head to the actuators. They should be fairly obvious. Most of the actuators are going to be near the center display since thats where the main duct system is. The left or right side air ducts are just branches from there. Most doors are all centrally located on or around that main duct "manifold". The evap doors would be the exception.

You need to isolate the line that enters the cabin. Test that.
If it leaks, follow the line inside and test the lines individually.
Follow each line under the hood from its source to its servo. Test in sections and replace as needed. Just plan on replacing most of the rubber and plastic lines under the hood and up to the hard line that enters the cabin thru the firewall..
Do NOT apply PRESSURE to the vac diaphrams and servos. That breaks them. They have fragile little bladders that are designed to operate one way only. By vac, not pressure. The MitiVac pump can be set up to do either..vac or apply mild pressure.

FSM details the location of all vac actuators and line route.
 
Boomdriver

I am not well versed in vacuum controls but it seems to me if there is not a vacuum switch then the vacuum may not be bad under the dash but simply not enough is being shuttled to the correct vacuum line. Until he gets that valve in place he is shooting craps and could cause more catastrophic problems by forcing things as you have said. Could you enlighten me on how the vacuum valve affects the system?

I am watching this to not only be of some small help but actually I am hoping to learn something about this system

Thanks in advance for your input
 
That vac valve behind the distributer is only a check valve...like a diode is to electricity..it only allows vac to move in one direction so that a certain level is maintained, and so that the diaphrams are not subject to random changes in movement causing vent doors to shudder and so forth. It helps to stabilize the vac or low pressure so that it stays more constant. So, once a vac is pulled on the dash system, it does not vary or drop because it cannot flow backwards with the opening or closing of a diaphram or servo. Since manifold vac changes constantly with throttle and loads, the need to stabilize the vac for dash vents to help it remain constant is easily done with the $3 check valve.
The check valve is not critical....but good to have since it was designed that way by people wayyyyyyy smarter than I am.
For testing purposes, the system can be plugged in right now. Finding the cabin line and getting vac on that to see if it holds it would be the next step. If it will not hold a vac (how much hg it should hold, I have no earthly idea) at all, then somewhere inside the dash is a leak or the control head/programmer is faulty. IIRC the programmer is build into the control head on later yr C4 where earlier models with C-68 had the little bastard box over the gas pedal...

I am curious now and will look at the FSM chapter to see if there is reference to how much vac the system should hold and for how long..
 
So if the check valve closes on the cruise vacuum line side to supply vacuum to the heater when needed it in effect is using all the vacuum. So until he has a check valve to put in there he should be able to run the vacuum line from the heater to the head nipple. This would eliminate the vacuum going to the cruise and the vacuum tank. Now if that works and he was not having any trouble with the cruise before then the cruise vacuum tank side of the system is good. It is my guess that since the vacuum to the cruise has a tee that the vacuum tank is a reservoir for spare vacuum for the cruise so it does not drop out when the vacuum check valve opens and closes for the heater demands.
 
IIRC the programmer is build into the control head on later yr C4 where earlier models with C-68 had the little bastard box over the gas pedal...
Gee,thats strange! I have a 92,94 and 2 96's here and All have the bastard box Programmer,Enlighten me!~!:thumb
 
sort of..
vac is not like pressure or liquid. If a line is under a vacuum the whole thing, branches, different size lines, chambers, everything is under the same vac. Only time that changes is when there is an increase in pressure from a leak or a servo that may allow air to enter the system. Otherwise, thru the check valve and the entire vac system there will be similar levels of low pressure.
The check valve is'nt complicated. Its just a very lite spring against a plunger/seal that opens as air moves from one side to the other. IF air were to try to move the opposite direct the plunger/spring closes the passage. Normally the valve is closed until vac from the engine pulls against the plunger and opens it. Once the "low pressure" has been generated on the other side of the valve, its everywhere. Diaphrams move, servos move, work takes place. Basically the engine sucks all the air out of those hoses and lines and that is used as a power source to actuate small devices like dash vents or cruise controls. This is exactly the same thing as air brakes on a truck, just the opposite. Vac is a powerful source of power BUT, to utilize it effectively you have to have a large enough diaphram to transition the low pressure to some form of mechanical action. Because HIGH pressure is easier to apply and is almost limitless, you do not see vac used in things that require lots of power because vac does have a LIMIT and its harder to generate and maintain a steady vac...Max is about 29.3 in/hg (IIRC). Thats about as much as can be done easily on earth..
Pressure on the other hand can build until liquids form. So pressure can do more work, as in braking systems. Simple compressor, limitless supply of gases. Pressure is very easy to work with as a power source. Takes too much work to generate a vac unless it happens to be a by-product of some other action thats already present...like a running internal combustion engine.

Back at the ranch...

that check valve has little to do with any thing. Its just there to stabilize the vac so the vent doors don't move everytime the throttle does or engine rpm changes. The vac "ball" or resevoir is there to act as a dampener and absorb some of the pressure spikes to help maintain a steady low pressure in long systems or where long lines exist or larger diaphrams that might have a momentary effect on other things as they move. Its size is no accident. The remainder of the hvac system has a resevoir as well...the tubes and larger hoses that are used in other underhood vac systems store enough "void" to keep the system stable.
Cruise diaphram..It needs a stable vac because its trying to hold a steady speed even though the engine may be trying to react to varying conditions that effect the manifold vaccum level, so the resevoir manages the vac to help the CC stay stable and maintain the set speed. It adjust constantly to the changing conditions. The largest on the car is the brake booster. The brake booster also has a check valve so the power level does not fluxtuate when your foot in on the pedal. Thats also why its so big...so there is plenty to spare. D/C the booster for a day and see just how much work a good diaphram really does...

I've been in the FSM trying to find how or how much vac the actuators hould need and how to test properly. So far, its unclear. There is no set amount of vac that can be applied with an expected result. Assuming that the normal vac range is similar to what manifold vac is on average, that would have to be what the actuators should be working with. As far as how long they should hold vac, thats also not described. In my experience, I have seen systems that would hold the vac for several seconds up to several minutes...even longer after the engine was shut off. Much of that depends on check valves and resevoirs. As stated earlier, whatever vac is present is the same throughout the system.

My question after thinking about this, was:
If vac was applied to an actuator, should that actuator hold that vac and its position for a given period of time? As a test of its power and ability to seal against leaks..?

My conclusion after reading the FSM on this....

I suppose that IF the actuator works and does its job at the normal vac level, and operates as it should, releasing the mechanical device as it should then if it leaks a little, thats ok since vac is always replaced with a running engine. It takes a pretty large diaphram leak to have a negative effect on the engine...like the brake booster for example. I've seen many leaks that changed idle slightly, but higher rpm there was no difference since there is so much air being moved thru the manifold...the leak is insignificant above idle.

Hope this helps...don;t know how it would...but hope it helps with the current question...

which was, what again?:L
 
Gee,thats strange! I have a 92,94 and 2 96's here and All have the bastard box Programmer,Enlighten me!~!:thumb

I had seen somewhere....maybe it was C5 even, where the whole mess was incorporated into the control head that acted as the programmer as well as where the info or driver input was selected.

I'm scratching my head over something I just read in the FSM...about the temp door being electric in an 87...and described as the "reversable DC motor" that has an arm attached to linkage from the "programmer"......huh?
If I can find that again I'll post the page and section..or scan it and post it so you can see it.
 
Thanks for the response. I now see that the check valve is basically like the ball check on an air compressor preventing the vacuum from flowing backwards. I still think the op should get the check valve. I base that on the idea that the general would not have put anything on the car that was not needed. Since the check valve is missing I would think the previous owner used the tee to complete the circuit but it also makes me wonder what other midnight hammer mechanic fixes exist in the car. As many of us have discovered including you Boomdriver there are no real short cuts to the systems on the Corvette. It truly is a car that I have come to love but I also find it very challenging to work on because I keep slapping my hands when I want to do a fix that is not according to the book. Sometimes I wish I could save a little money with my backyard repairs but in the long run I don't.
 
I had seen somewhere....maybe it was C5 even, where the whole mess was incorporated into the control head that acted as the programmer as well as where the info or driver input was selected.

I'm scratching my head over something I just read in the FSM...about the temp door being electric in an 87...and described as the "reversable DC motor" that has an arm attached to linkage from the "programmer"......huh?
If I can find that again I'll post the page and section..or scan it and post it so you can see it.




Page from the FSM for 87 sec 1B1-4 Electronic Climate Control
I have no idea what this is refering to.... Paragraph on Temperature Door Actuator ........ I thought all early C4 were vac and there is no motor that I have seen in the bastard box programmer. BB is over gas pedal..nowhere near the temp door.
 

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That is interesting information on the 87 heater set up. As for the op he has a 96 so I am guessing it is somewhat different. Not sure if my 93 FSM has the right information but I will try to see if it gives what the vacuum should be. Could not find anything about what vacuum should be.
 
That is interesting information on the 87 heater set up. As for the op he has a 96 so I am guessing it is somewhat different. Not sure if my 93 FSM has the right information but I will try to see if it gives what the vacuum should be. Could not find anything about what vacuum should be.



That stuff I posted has to be a typo or misprint from another yr model....I have opt-68 and there is no dc motor on, in or near the programmer and I'd swear that my temp door as well as blend door is vac operated...I dunno...but if you have a FSM that yr, take a look. Its in my 87 book.
 

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