VATS delete & performance reflash

[Stonecold C-4]

I've had only one issue with the Vette's VATS shutting down and thats enough to make me find a total solution. So speaking with a friend he suggested I call this company pcmforless.com and speak with Keith so I did. Keith was very helpful and asked what year Vette I had what gas grade I used and what mods did I have on my car, I'm thinking what does that have to do with the VATS. Come to find out not only will he reflash the computer to eliminate the 3 VATS issues key, fuel, and starter but also put a performance tune on the Vette at the same time. For $190.00 plus shipping of your computer one way, back to you is included in the $190 problem solved ( on the site it shows Vette's up to 1993 but they go further). When you look through the site seems like they no what time it is when it comes to this stuff, that being said if some company or person supporting this site does the same thing I would let them have the business. What do ya'll think.

 

[boomdriver]

I fail to understand why people are stuck on wanting to eliminate the ONLY thing preventing your car from being hot wired in 8 seconds and driven away. Its just beyond me why a single VATS incident will throw a panic into someone and the knee jerk reaction is to:
1st Blame the VATS for the cost of grocerys, gasoline and the payroll tax rate and everything else thats wrong or not understood.

2nd, the system is NEVER considered for repair or maint, because the 'bubba code' says if ya can't eat it, screw it, or understand it, kill it !

So, here comes the VATS delete kits...with the car thieves right behind...just waiting for the opportunity.

I've had many VATS incidents over 25 yrs of C4s and never once did I start to forget exactly how good this system really is at keeping idiots out of the driver seat and providing them with opportunity to steal my car. It acts up now and then...so what? better than leaving my car totally exposed with no way to stop a thief. Noise maker car alarms are false security since they do nothing to prevent theft except annoy people. The GM AntiTheft System is by far the most effective. I haven't even heard of ANYone that has had a Corvette hot wired and stolen since the C4 came out. I've seen several attempts..no success.
If the car has been taken care of its not a big deal to fix some VATS parts...and then go sleep that nite knowing that no one will be firing up your vette without your keys.

Performance tune....heck ya! deleting the VATS system, never gonna happen on MY car,ever! I like finding my car where I parked it.

Besides, VATS is so easy to bypass if the enable relay fails, that anyone with a few tools (and some time) can rig the bypass and continue to the nearest parts store.

VATS operates on the basic need of the thief. TIME. The system CAN be bypassed but it takes time to do so. Thats the single thing that a car thief does not have much of at all. If he cannot enter and start-up in 30 seconds...he will move on to another easier target.

Not trying to be adversarial here at all, just trying to shed some light on a subject that gets too much attention. Car thieves are a part of life. Lets not make their life any easier than ours by helping them because we're too cheap or lazy to fix something that ruins their day. It takes just as much effort to change a starter enable relay as it does to bypass one. The inj interface rarely fails, and there are a doz other things that can stop the car where it sits and nobody thinks twice about deleting the fuel pump, distributor or a bad water pump....because they need those things to run. You need the VATS to park. Same difference.

 

[TedC]

Stonecold,
Boomdriver likes to respond in a very frank manner, always providing a dose of reality. He keeps all of us honest.

Isn't the starter enable relay still in play even if you disable VATS in the EPROM? I just want to make sure your suggested modifications accomplish your ultimate goal. I'm not sure they do.

 

[smokestack]

I need to look into a reflash myself. I have HPtuners i play with alot on my other cars. So this old system sucks lol. I doubt the old owner had it flashed for the headers installed on it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Stonecold C-4]

I fail to understand why people are so friggin stuck on bubba wanting to eliminate the ONLY thing preventing your car from being hot wired in 8 seconds and driven away. Its just beyond me why a single VATS incident will throw a bubba panic into someone and the knee jerk reaction is to: 1st Blame the VATS for the cost of grocerys, gasoline and the payroll tax rate
2nd, the system is NEVER considered for repair or maint, 'cause the bubba code says if ya can't eat it, screw it, or understand it, kill it !
So, here comes the VATS delete kits...with the car thieves right behind...just waiting for the opportunity.

I've had many VATS incidents over 25 yrs of C4s and never once did I start to forget exactly how good this system really is at keeping idiots out of the driver seat and allowing them to steal my car. It acts up now and then...so what? better than leaving my car totally exposed with no way to stop an thief. If the car has been taken care of its not a big deal to fix some VATS parts...and then go sleep that nite knowing that no one will be firing up your vette without your keys.

Performance tune....heck ya! deleting the VATS system, never gonna happen on MY car,ever! I like finding my car where I parked it.

Besides, VATS is so easy to bypass if the enable relay fails, that anyone with a few tools can rig the bypass and continue to the neares+

First of all boom I don't panic over anything and I'd bet "Bubba" as you call him knows more about Vettes than you, by the way his name is Keith. I want it off because I have a wife and daughter that want to drive it and I'd like them to make it back home and not be stuck out there somewhere, and who knows what could happen to them. So far as a 8 second hot wire do you really believe a VATS system can really keep a car from being stolen by a pro lol. might want to chech with your insurance company on that and ask them to pull up old records on how many C4's have been stolen over the years, the #'s will let you know that your trust in that system is only a hopeful dream. My advice to you is don't post about people and their intentions and their knowledge when you know nothing about the person or persons. And I'm not into getting in a pissing match with you at all, we just don't view this the same way.

 

[2VettesMike]

VATS is a good system but something must be going on as far as preventing thefts. I would doubt all these cars below at VATS bypassed. Data from NICB who track stolen cars has the following data on thefts of C4 generation cars being discussed.

The link in case you want to verify is at:

https://www.nicb.org/File Library/Public Affairs/HW-Classics-Corvette-data-tables.xlsx


Model Year # Stolen
[TABLE="width: 287"]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]96
[/TD]
[TD]868
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]95
[/TD]
[TD]1013
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]94
[/TD]
[TD]1054
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]93
[/TD]
[TD]993
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]92
[/TD]
[TD]1159
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]91
[/TD]
[TD]1260
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]90
[/TD]
[TD]1471
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]89
[/TD]
[TD]2297
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]88
[/TD]
[TD]2122
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]87
[/TD]
[TD]2869
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]86
[/TD]
[TD]3526
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]85
[/TD]
[TD]6353
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette
[/TD]
[TD]84
[/TD]
[TD]8559
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


The only VATS issue I had was when I dropped the keys in a dirty driveway and got grit on the resistor pellet. Didn't realize it and timed out the start circuit. Waited, cleaned the key and away it went.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[TedC]

Come to find out not only will he reflash the computer to eliminate the 3 VATS issues key, fuel, and starter but also put a performance tune on the Vette at the same time.

I pulled the FSM on my 1989, and unless your year is wired differently, the above statement is not completely correct. A reflash, or reprgramming the EPROM to disable VATS allows the ECM to manage cranking fuel without any input from the Pass Key Decoder. However, the Pass Key Decoder is still involved and is required to ground the Starter Enable Relay, allowing current to flow to starter soleniod. I see the reflash getting you closer to your objective, but from my experiences, it is the Starter Enable Relay that is going to leave you stranded. This relay is not normally stocked at my local Chevy dealerships.

 

[vetteoz]

Isn't the starter enable relay still in play even if you disable VATS in the EPROM?.

Anytime you get VATS deleted on the tune you need to manually bypass the starter enable relay in order for VATS to be fully removed

 

[Stonecold C-4]

TedC & VetteOZ you 2 are correct about the starter relay, the way I should have posted what Keith and his shop will do is, the reflash takes care of the key and fuel issue for the 95 Vette. He will instruct by phone or include instruction with the return of you computer on how to deal with the the starter relay, once this is done the VATS is totaly deleted. Like I stated my wife and 19 year old daughter like to drive the Vette and because I work 1785 miles away in the ND. oil patch for 3 weeks at a time, I'm not there to help if there is a issue. If the car is stolen so be it it can be replaced my family can not, if a nut case stops if there is a security shut down acting like he is there to help. Also posted in this thread by 2VettesMike is a list of years and #'s of stolen C4's over the years and as you can see the #'s go down as the years go up so I must admit I was wrong that the VATS isn't all it's made out to be, it looks as if it could be useful. Also with reflash if you give details on any mods you have done to your Vette Keith will program to increase you Vette's performance at no extra cost he tells me even if it is all stock his reflash will help get a little more performance or you can opt out and not have him go that direction. His site is pcmforless.com been in business for 25+ years just take a look and shoot him an email if you have any questions. I also am open to a vendor or person on this site that may do the same work. Thanks for the input every bit helps.

 

[2VettesMike]

Kind of interesting on a deeper look at the theft data, seems like it climbs percentage wise about the time GM discontinues a lot of the parts. I know I am having problems getting a lot of parts to keep my high mileage 93 in the daily driver column.

Thanks guys, great thread.

Mike

 

[smokestack]

And im interested in the tune part performance wise lol. I know its easy to bump timing and cut fuel for seat of the pants feel. And sure better milage comes with that. I am just used to logging alot to see what the motor wants and going from there tune wise. Kinda interested in the results. I guess i should just email them and stop thread jacking

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TedC]

It took a few posts, but we finally got the right facts on table about VATS, and how to really disable it if that is your goal.

Smokestack,
I prefer your approach to tuning. Too many variables in play for a generic performance tune. That is a topic for another thread.

 

[vetteoz]

Kind of interesting on a deeper look at the theft data,

The reduction in stolen cars was so great with the introduction of VATS in '86
that many insurance companies dropped their insurance premiums on C4's

 

[boomdriver]

First of all boom I don't panic over anything and I'd bet "Bubba" as you call him knows more about Vettes than you, by the way his name is Keith.

Who is Keith and whats he got to do with this? 2nd..I seriously doubt it...

I want it off because I have a wife and daughter that want to drive it and I'd like them to make it back home and not be stuck out there somewhere, and who knows what could happen to them. So far as a 8 second hot wire do you really believe a VATS system can really keep a car from being stolen by a pro lol. Seriously??? You're killin me over here... You honestly believe what you are saying? Man, you need to think that one over and maybe get your friend Keith (who ever that is) to enlighten you regarding the effectiveness of VATS and its history. Keeping your family safe seems like it would include not having them walk home because the car was stolen from the mall...

If its not working right...JUST FIX IT.

might want to chech with your insurance company on that and ask them to pull up old records on how many C4's have been stolen

I do not need to...having been a C4 owner since 1987 I experienced discounted ins because the VATS system was standard equipment on Vettes and Caddys ONLY for several years. There were virtually NO Corvette "hotwire" Thefts after 1986. Where you get your worldly knowledge on this subject, I have no friggin idea..

over the years, the #'s will let you know that your trust in that system is only a hopeful dream. <- Seriously???
My advice to you is don't post about people and their intentions (again, who are you talking about? )and their knowledge when you know nothing about the person or persons. And I'm not into getting in a pissing match with you at all, we just don't view this the same way.

In case you;re new to the world of cars and DIY auto maint, BUBBA is a non-existant person, its the hillbilly shade-tree old school jury rig mentality..not an actual person...jeeze.

 

[boomdriver]

VATS is a good system but something must be going on as far as preventing thefts. I would doubt all these cars below at VATS bypassed. Data from NICB who track stolen cars has the following data on thefts of C4 generation cars being discussed.

The link in case you want to verify is at:

https://www.nicb.org/File Library/Public Affairs/HW-Classics-Corvette-data-tables.xlsx


Model Year # Stolen
[TABLE="width: 287"]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]96[/TD]
[TD]868[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]1013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]94[/TD]
[TD]1054[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]93[/TD]
[TD]993[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]92[/TD]
[TD]1159[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]91[/TD]
[TD]1260[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]90[/TD]
[TD]1471[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]89[/TD]
[TD]2297[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]88[/TD]
[TD]2122[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]87[/TD]
[TD]2869[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]86[/TD]
[TD]3526[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]85[/TD]
[TD]6353[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Corvette[/TD]
[TD]84[/TD]
[TD]8559[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


The only VATS issue I had was when I dropped the keys in a dirty driveway and got grit on the resistor pellet. Didn't realize it and timed out the start circuit. Waited, cleaned the key and away it went.

Thanks,

Mike

There were LOTS of C4s stolen over the years....mostly from valet stations, stolen keys, towed or key copies made. As VATS evolved the numbers got smaller and smaller due to the "pass-key" design where I guess RFI technology ignores anyone that does not have the key-fob. Push buttom start-up only happens if the system likes the radio security code being transmitted...and if it gets anything less,....shut down and no go. VATS and more recent GM anti-theft systems do NOT prevent the car from being stolen...they DO prevent it from being stolen by hot-wiring. "Pro" or otherwise....

Just yesterday My car did a VATS shut down at a store parking lot...hot and late, I didn't need that. But, I walked over to the Wing-Stop and got some dinner, after 20 minutes, walked to the car, started it and went home. And never ONCE thought about deleting the system that would have protected the car had it been left in that parking lot.

 

[Stonecold C-4]

...............I think I'll ask a site admin. to just delete this thread ...........................

There seems to be useful info contained in the thread so I think it would be a disservice to members searching for VATS information to delete it entirely.

I do agree though that it's time to archive it.
This one's done.

Jane Ann
XLR8
Corvette Action Center
Forums Administrator