Stan, care to elaborate or comment further?? As I posted on page 1, this makes no sense to me.
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- #22
S
Stan A
Guest
Question of what you believe
I believe we all entitled to our opinion. Most people or a portion here on the CAC are just pass on what they hear from other sources (not necessarily from GM). The people we know at GM in many cases are the same ones that major magazines use as their contacts. The only difference is that they print the word for profit. What we pass on to the general public is just info at no profit.
I spoke with with regional Chevy district here in the southern region just the other day. Nice people but there level of knowledge was limited because they are not in the loop. They could only say for sure that no 2004 cars will not be built until the first XLR run is complete. No other info was available to them. He further said that regional offices are not allowed to pass on production numbers on any vehicles.
Everyone has the right to choose to what they believe. Trying to convenience someone mind is not our contention. The only thing one needs to ask themselves is whether they believe GM builds cars to make money or to make the public happy and not make money.
It simple, the Corvette program has come close to being cancelled three times in the 1990's. It all about money. The bean-counters will not allow a production to take place unless a resonable profit is expected. Left over cars are always sold. To believe that GM or any other company would dispose of left over cars is not normal thinking. Ever wondered why cars like the Corvette do not change from year to year ( for a particular model style run). They contracted for parts from outside production companies to supply a certain number of piece based on a projected run. The best case of this is the C5 hard tops. Poor sellers in 1999 and 2000. The Z06 was the "tool" to sell the remaining contracted number that was agreed on. They simply took a bad situation and turned it around to their advantage. In 2001 as currently, Chevy Corvette is not in any type of "horsepower war". They really do not have direct competition within the performance ring ( maybe the new SLK with the supercharge - 24 valued six - makes 349ponies ). This car is very light and maybe even a better match for the Z06 directly. With this in mind, you can see that left over 2003 are simply being updated to be sold as 2004 off the assembly line. Again, making a bad situation into a good one.
Whether several of you believe in regards to what is taking place is not important. What is important is that the Corvette will survive another year to reach the C6 platform. We all want this American Icon to stay with us. Who cares how they manage to do this feat. We all agree to disagree but we all agree that we believe the Corvette is one of the finest sports car made. They why we own them and drive them.
If anyone here owns a 2001 Z06, check the post in the base section about a recent problem that has been popping up.
Everyone have a great day!
Stan
I believe we all entitled to our opinion. Most people or a portion here on the CAC are just pass on what they hear from other sources (not necessarily from GM). The people we know at GM in many cases are the same ones that major magazines use as their contacts. The only difference is that they print the word for profit. What we pass on to the general public is just info at no profit.
I spoke with with regional Chevy district here in the southern region just the other day. Nice people but there level of knowledge was limited because they are not in the loop. They could only say for sure that no 2004 cars will not be built until the first XLR run is complete. No other info was available to them. He further said that regional offices are not allowed to pass on production numbers on any vehicles.
Everyone has the right to choose to what they believe. Trying to convenience someone mind is not our contention. The only thing one needs to ask themselves is whether they believe GM builds cars to make money or to make the public happy and not make money.
It simple, the Corvette program has come close to being cancelled three times in the 1990's. It all about money. The bean-counters will not allow a production to take place unless a resonable profit is expected. Left over cars are always sold. To believe that GM or any other company would dispose of left over cars is not normal thinking. Ever wondered why cars like the Corvette do not change from year to year ( for a particular model style run). They contracted for parts from outside production companies to supply a certain number of piece based on a projected run. The best case of this is the C5 hard tops. Poor sellers in 1999 and 2000. The Z06 was the "tool" to sell the remaining contracted number that was agreed on. They simply took a bad situation and turned it around to their advantage. In 2001 as currently, Chevy Corvette is not in any type of "horsepower war". They really do not have direct competition within the performance ring ( maybe the new SLK with the supercharge - 24 valued six - makes 349ponies ). This car is very light and maybe even a better match for the Z06 directly. With this in mind, you can see that left over 2003 are simply being updated to be sold as 2004 off the assembly line. Again, making a bad situation into a good one.
Whether several of you believe in regards to what is taking place is not important. What is important is that the Corvette will survive another year to reach the C6 platform. We all want this American Icon to stay with us. Who cares how they manage to do this feat. We all agree to disagree but we all agree that we believe the Corvette is one of the finest sports car made. They why we own them and drive them.
If anyone here owns a 2001 Z06, check the post in the base section about a recent problem that has been popping up.
Everyone have a great day!
Stan
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- #23
C
CFour
Guest
I just called the plant and they have not even built a saleable XLR as of today and XLR production has been delayed. There is NO TRUTH WHATSOEVER in what you said that they are changing Vin plates to 04 numbers. The two assembly lines are just that two lines the Cadillacs are not set up to run off the C5 line at all. Call the plant and see for yourself.
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- #24
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Lee74C3
Guest
There is no such thing as a "left-over" car/truck from any automotive manufacturer that gets re-badged with the next MY VIN. Each year's production run is well defined. Far in advance, the manufacturer knows exactly when production will start and stop. Yes, there are factors that change the plan.
The GM Plant in Oklahoma City is a good example of this. Several weeks ago, a tornado did extensive damage to the plant which caused an un-planned shut down. There were several hundred un-completed orders left on the production line. In addition, the material forecast was complete on another couple thousand, i.e., all the materials were ordered and in the pipeline.
Recently, the units in General Assembly (orders on the production line) were completed and shipped to dealers... as 2003 MY Trailblazer EXTs and Envoy XLs.
When regular production resumes, the balance of the orders will be produced... as 2003 MY units. This will extend the 2003 MY production run and delay 2004 start-up.
No VIN plates will be removed with new MY plates installed.
Regarding Corvette, Obviously, whoever provided Stan A with his information did not have a clue what is going on in Bowling Green. Many field representatives don't since production forecasting is not a critical part of their job.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. As readers of these forums, we all need to be sure and seperate opinions from facts. More importantly, we should not present opinions as facts. The beginning posting on this thread does not read like an opinion. If I missed the "opinion" part, I apologize.
Just like a good news reporter, verify, verify, verify (except for the New York Times).
The GM Plant in Oklahoma City is a good example of this. Several weeks ago, a tornado did extensive damage to the plant which caused an un-planned shut down. There were several hundred un-completed orders left on the production line. In addition, the material forecast was complete on another couple thousand, i.e., all the materials were ordered and in the pipeline.
Recently, the units in General Assembly (orders on the production line) were completed and shipped to dealers... as 2003 MY Trailblazer EXTs and Envoy XLs.
When regular production resumes, the balance of the orders will be produced... as 2003 MY units. This will extend the 2003 MY production run and delay 2004 start-up.
No VIN plates will be removed with new MY plates installed.
Regarding Corvette, Obviously, whoever provided Stan A with his information did not have a clue what is going on in Bowling Green. Many field representatives don't since production forecasting is not a critical part of their job.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. As readers of these forums, we all need to be sure and seperate opinions from facts. More importantly, we should not present opinions as facts. The beginning posting on this thread does not read like an opinion. If I missed the "opinion" part, I apologize.
Just like a good news reporter, verify, verify, verify (except for the New York Times).
- Thread starter
- #25
S
Stan A
Guest
Enough
The plant will not give out any info on production.
Lee, your example "holds no water". The truck change every year with regards to body styling. Corvette design and production stays the same thru the entire style run.
Take your own advise........ except the AJC and the NYT!!!
Its time to end this once and for all.
Stan
The plant will not give out any info on production.
Lee, your example "holds no water". The truck change every year with regards to body styling. Corvette design and production stays the same thru the entire style run.
Take your own advise........ except the AJC and the NYT!!!
Its time to end this once and for all.
Stan
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Not true. In fact you can find production figures for all the GM plants on the GM website. Take the link GM figures then open the Excel files there that show production by plant.
I see that Bowling Green has built 145 XLR's so far and 34 2004 Vettes up to the end of May.
I don't know who you are talking to or listening to but it's all smoke.
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- #27
L
LongTimer
Guest
HOT TUNA!!
Interceptor430
Well-known member
note to self (skip over stuff Stan A writes)
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- #29
Z
Z51 Coupe
Guest
Double that
Ignore anything Stan A posts to CAC unless he can back up his stmts with facts.
Ignore anything Stan A posts to CAC unless he can back up his stmts with facts.
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- #30
B
BORDERBUM
Guest
Man, Ive always wanted to use those!! BORDERBUM- Thread starter
- #31
P
Pinstripe
Guest
I don't see them switching VIN's on any of the cars.
Wouldn't they also have to switch all of the hood and rear deck emblems as well since they are the silver 50th anniversary emblems???
Wouldn't they also have to switch all of the hood and rear deck emblems as well since they are the silver 50th anniversary emblems???
c4c5specialist
Technical Advisor
HI there,
From a strictly factual point of view, the following should be considered.
#1 VIN plates cannot be swapped. The VIN is cast stamped into the framerails, engine, transmission, and VIN labels are adhered to each external body panel.
Plus, it is a violation of EPA guidelines to produce a vehicle that does NOT adhere to emissions guidelines. Does anyone ask if the emissions control standards have change??? Well, for the 04 model year, they have become more stringent. So the 03 will not adhere to this specification.
#2 Had anyone else driven the 04 ZO6, well, let me tell you, the suspension system is UNBELIEVABLE. Totally different shock valving, subtle geometry changes, and other quality improvements during testing at Nurbergring in Germany have paid off. You cant just bolt on shocks and make the 04 handle like the 03, it was tried, and just didnt work the way engineering wanted.
#3 XLR is on its own assembly like, within the Bowling Green assembly plant, being hand assembled. Corvette assembly can produce 35000 plus units per year, and just stay with production projections. If XLR is on the line, how can c5 production stay at the numbers needed to meet demand???
Now, the question stands, with XLR producing 1000 units per year, that would show 300 days to produce the 1000 units needed. That stands about 3 per day, give or take. Just in line with the production demands to the customers.
So with that, there is so much speculation on c5, and now c6, that too much is left to theory.
Lets just wait and see, but from a purly technical point of view, this is simply not possible.
Allthebest, c4c5
From a strictly factual point of view, the following should be considered.
#1 VIN plates cannot be swapped. The VIN is cast stamped into the framerails, engine, transmission, and VIN labels are adhered to each external body panel.
Plus, it is a violation of EPA guidelines to produce a vehicle that does NOT adhere to emissions guidelines. Does anyone ask if the emissions control standards have change??? Well, for the 04 model year, they have become more stringent. So the 03 will not adhere to this specification.
#2 Had anyone else driven the 04 ZO6, well, let me tell you, the suspension system is UNBELIEVABLE. Totally different shock valving, subtle geometry changes, and other quality improvements during testing at Nurbergring in Germany have paid off. You cant just bolt on shocks and make the 04 handle like the 03, it was tried, and just didnt work the way engineering wanted.
#3 XLR is on its own assembly like, within the Bowling Green assembly plant, being hand assembled. Corvette assembly can produce 35000 plus units per year, and just stay with production projections. If XLR is on the line, how can c5 production stay at the numbers needed to meet demand???
Now, the question stands, with XLR producing 1000 units per year, that would show 300 days to produce the 1000 units needed. That stands about 3 per day, give or take. Just in line with the production demands to the customers.
So with that, there is so much speculation on c5, and now c6, that too much is left to theory.
Lets just wait and see, but from a purly technical point of view, this is simply not possible.
Allthebest, c4c5
- Thread starter
- #33
L
Lee74C3
Guest
c4c5specialist:
C3 vs. C4... You are right on target. I didn't want to get too deep into the complex details. The previous posts are so far off track it is ridiculous to acknowledge.
XLR... There is a seperate line. Production forecast (not sales forecast) is just above 5000 units for the 2004 MY. Prior segment sales are approximately 15 - 20 thousand per year depending on how many manufacturers you include. Technically, only Mercedes, Lexus, and now Cadillac, should be included in the industry analysis. July 2003 Motor Trend has a great comparison article. Trust me, the XLR is a great car to drive.
I believe your remarkshere have eliminated the confusion and set the record straight.
C3 vs. C4... You are right on target. I didn't want to get too deep into the complex details. The previous posts are so far off track it is ridiculous to acknowledge.
XLR... There is a seperate line. Production forecast (not sales forecast) is just above 5000 units for the 2004 MY. Prior segment sales are approximately 15 - 20 thousand per year depending on how many manufacturers you include. Technically, only Mercedes, Lexus, and now Cadillac, should be included in the industry analysis. July 2003 Motor Trend has a great comparison article. Trust me, the XLR is a great car to drive.
I believe your remarkshere have eliminated the confusion and set the record straight.
- Admin
- #34
Somebody take me for a ride in a 2004 Z06!! :cry :cry
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- #35
V
vettepilot
Guest
C4C5,
Are the changes made to the 2004 Z06 suspension "backwards compatible" to the 01 thru 03 Z06s? If so, can you post the list of changes that we would need to make to update our own Z06s.
Thanks in advance, and one more thing to add....
the last time I was in BG, the XLR assembly line was being erected, if I remember correctly, it was beyond the end where the seats and dash are installed. That was April 2002.
I plan on going up again this October, but just might stop by on my way back from New England next month if I have the time.
More to follow later......
vettepilot
Are the changes made to the 2004 Z06 suspension "backwards compatible" to the 01 thru 03 Z06s? If so, can you post the list of changes that we would need to make to update our own Z06s.
Thanks in advance, and one more thing to add....
the last time I was in BG, the XLR assembly line was being erected, if I remember correctly, it was beyond the end where the seats and dash are installed. That was April 2002.
I plan on going up again this October, but just might stop by on my way back from New England next month if I have the time.
More to follow later......
vettepilot
c4c5specialist
Technical Advisor
Hi there,
Vettepilot, you are always welcome here in CT, and at my dealership. Just give me a heads up, and would love to meet you.
As for the changes, I cannot go into details, as I am sure you can understand.
XLR is truly an amazing car to drive.
I was fortunate to drive one, and see everything in depth.
I can only say that refinement is this car, and very smooth.
Allthebest, c4c5
Vettepilot, you are always welcome here in CT, and at my dealership. Just give me a heads up, and would love to meet you.
As for the changes, I cannot go into details, as I am sure you can understand.
XLR is truly an amazing car to drive.
I was fortunate to drive one, and see everything in depth.
I can only say that refinement is this car, and very smooth.
Allthebest, c4c5
- Thread starter
- #37
V
vettepilot
Guest
Hi C4C5,
I certainly understand why you can't release the 04 Z06 suspension info before the car is released to the public. Maybe by the time it's out the info will be made available anyway.
Thanks for the invite, although I have a feeling we will be blasting through CT as fast as the law allows and unfortunately NOT in the Z06 on the way to R.I. to visit my inlaws. Which town and dealer are you located?
We usually come into Ct on 84, through Waterbury, then pick up 691 to Meridan, then on through Middletown, 66 to Marlborough, drop down to Colchester, then Rt2 to 395 get off onto Rt 14A then to the R.I State line and then down into the West Greenwich.
Anything there sound close to your neck of the woods?
If it's at all possible maybe I can talk the wife into a little side trip to say HI either going up or coming back.
Have a great day up there!
vettepilot
I certainly understand why you can't release the 04 Z06 suspension info before the car is released to the public. Maybe by the time it's out the info will be made available anyway.
Thanks for the invite, although I have a feeling we will be blasting through CT as fast as the law allows and unfortunately NOT in the Z06 on the way to R.I. to visit my inlaws. Which town and dealer are you located?
We usually come into Ct on 84, through Waterbury, then pick up 691 to Meridan, then on through Middletown, 66 to Marlborough, drop down to Colchester, then Rt2 to 395 get off onto Rt 14A then to the R.I State line and then down into the West Greenwich.
Anything there sound close to your neck of the woods?
If it's at all possible maybe I can talk the wife into a little side trip to say HI either going up or coming back.
Have a great day up there!
vettepilot
Well I am glad that C4C5specialist has responded to this thread. It made absoluely no sense at all what was being discussed; changing VIN numbers / plates. Hopefully this will put the confusion to rest.
Rob - maybe Rick Daniels can hook you up with a new ZO6. I picture his Logo on the doors with the CAC banner accross the windshield. Now that would be a sweet business investment for Rick
Rob - maybe Rick Daniels can hook you up with a new ZO6. I picture his Logo on the doors with the CAC banner accross the windshield. Now that would be a sweet business investment for Rick
c4c5specialist
Technical Advisor
Hi there,
Vettepilot, You pass through Danbury, so I can meet you at the Danbury Fair Mall. This is right on I84, as my dealership is too far to the south.
But, Brianna and I love to ride the carousel, so maybe if you would like to make a pitstop for lunch, would love to meet up.
Anyway, the reason I have driven the XLR, and know what I do, it to the fantastic amount of support I receive from c5engineering, and my teachers at the local training center. They trust me.
Without them, I would not know what I do, nor be able to advise here. That is why I cannot release the information until it is produced for the public.
Rob, you are always welcome here, to drive as you wish, if you can make it up here. Once I get an 04, we can go out for a drive.
Allthebest, c4c5
Vettepilot, You pass through Danbury, so I can meet you at the Danbury Fair Mall. This is right on I84, as my dealership is too far to the south.
But, Brianna and I love to ride the carousel, so maybe if you would like to make a pitstop for lunch, would love to meet up.
Anyway, the reason I have driven the XLR, and know what I do, it to the fantastic amount of support I receive from c5engineering, and my teachers at the local training center. They trust me.
Without them, I would not know what I do, nor be able to advise here. That is why I cannot release the information until it is produced for the public.
Rob, you are always welcome here, to drive as you wish, if you can make it up here. Once I get an 04, we can go out for a drive.
Allthebest, c4c5
- Thread starter
- #40
V
vettepilot
Guest
C4C5,
That sounds great! I'll run that past my wife to see in which direction she wants to stop. And as the time for departure from here gets closer, I'll have a much better idea as to the approx. time we will be coming through that area. Looks like we will be leaving here the morning of the 16th, so we plan to be up in your area on the 19th. The return trip is very open at this point, all depends on the weather, and such as to when we will leave there to head South, and eventually home.
Thanks for the reply back, hope we can make it all work out.
vettepilot
That sounds great! I'll run that past my wife to see in which direction she wants to stop. And as the time for departure from here gets closer, I'll have a much better idea as to the approx. time we will be coming through that area. Looks like we will be leaving here the morning of the 16th, so we plan to be up in your area on the 19th. The return trip is very open at this point, all depends on the weather, and such as to when we will leave there to head South, and eventually home.
Thanks for the reply back, hope we can make it all work out.
vettepilot
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