W
wildman
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Do I need to change anything other than the Thermostat to run cooler?? Still leave the fan settings the same and the computer settings??
iron cross
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Never use a 160! Your car should probably use a 195. I could be a little more specific if I knew the year. Through 67, the recommended stat is a 180. 
I knew I should not have answered this thread. If you want it to boil, use a 160. I fail to see how a stock Corvette can get away with a 160 unless its a 1953 with alky coolent. This must be why I`m always asked at what temp does my Vette run. My 62 FI car uses a 180 and runs 170-180. My 68 L88 uses a 195 and runs at 190-200, The 84 and 86 also uses the 195. As you can see I do have a couple. We also sell automotive parts and service ALL cars. The trick is to hold the water back in the engine to allow the radiator time to cool the water before it returns to the engine. A 160 will open faster, but if you dont have a huge radiator and a bunch of trick junk, it`s going to boil.
I knew I should not have answered this thread. If you want it to boil, use a 160. I fail to see how a stock Corvette can get away with a 160 unless its a 1953 with alky coolent. This must be why I`m always asked at what temp does my Vette run. My 62 FI car uses a 180 and runs 170-180. My 68 L88 uses a 195 and runs at 190-200, The 84 and 86 also uses the 195. As you can see I do have a couple. We also sell automotive parts and service ALL cars. The trick is to hold the water back in the engine to allow the radiator time to cool the water before it returns to the engine. A 160 will open faster, but if you dont have a huge radiator and a bunch of trick junk, it`s going to boil.
You can run a 160 stat if you want. I do, and have for years. The stat will help, but won't keep the car from running much warmer in stop and go traffic. that is all controlled by the temp the fans turn on.
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Eagle85C4
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Your best and easiest way to keep it cooler is install a manual switch for the fans...I did mine this weekend and as soon as it goes over 195 I turn on the switch and it goes back to 186 and stays there....even with the AC on...
CKA_Racing
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It will run cooler at higher speeds. But you will need to set the fans off sooner in driving around town and traffic if you want the temp that low. This is done easily by either installing a fan temp switch which is just a sensor installed in the side of the cylinder head and wired to the relay, reprogram the settings of the computer chip if you are burning a new chip for other mods added. You can also just wire up the fans to a toggle switch and run them constantly when you want.
Why do you need it to run that low? You run the 1/4 competively?
I fully understand you will get a bit more HP but there's also negative affects from the low temp stat. Lower gas mileage, extra wear on the cylinder walls especially if you run around in cold weather. Ideally 170 would be nice to have. I've run both 160 and 180 with and without a low temp switch and/or fans running all the time. For a year round North East daily driver, 180 stat actually worked out better with a automatic fan temp switch. I also wired a toggle for those days of autcrossing in extreme temps. I'd kick both fans on.
Why do you need it to run that low? You run the 1/4 competively?
I fully understand you will get a bit more HP but there's also negative affects from the low temp stat. Lower gas mileage, extra wear on the cylinder walls especially if you run around in cold weather. Ideally 170 would be nice to have. I've run both 160 and 180 with and without a low temp switch and/or fans running all the time. For a year round North East daily driver, 180 stat actually worked out better with a automatic fan temp switch. I also wired a toggle for those days of autcrossing in extreme temps. I'd kick both fans on.
vader86
Well-known member
I run a 160, no problems.
it will make the engine take longer to warm up, in summer that means itll be running cooler than stock because it wont wait til 195 to open and start cooling the engine
Only way to keep it cool in town though, is wiring in a fan switch to the main fan, or having your PROM chip reprogrammed.
it will make the engine take longer to warm up, in summer that means itll be running cooler than stock because it wont wait til 195 to open and start cooling the engine
Only way to keep it cool in town though, is wiring in a fan switch to the main fan, or having your PROM chip reprogrammed.
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H
hawaii-5-lo
Guest
hey there,
i also ran the 160*i n the 89 i had.had the fans on at 170* and off at 160*,in hot weather and heavy traffic it would get to 190*,but like iron cross said if you want it to run at 160* you will need a bigger radiator.but i disagree about the water boiling,with a 15psi radiator cap in a closed loop system its not going to boil until about 250*,the only affects that i can see is less milage(who cars) and higher emmisions(more carbon build up).the other point here is even if the water was to stay at 160*the oil temperature still gets to 200*thats what matters.i was shocked when i got my c5 and it runs 220*+,the high speed fans dont come on until 235*,no thanks.always run the proper coolant also to keep the water pump lubricated.ive done much track experiments with my c5,cooling temps 195* 13.4 at 105,210*or higher 13.7 at 102 with a little engine knock.i have since modified my c5 t-stat(cut 2 coils off the spring)now it runs at 185*,i still need the fan switch,the oil temp has not changed,car runs much better at 185*,no power loss.another thing is i dont use waterwetter or that other stuff,if g.m. does not say to add it,theres a reason.just my opinion,later,Todd.
i also ran the 160*i n the 89 i had.had the fans on at 170* and off at 160*,in hot weather and heavy traffic it would get to 190*,but like iron cross said if you want it to run at 160* you will need a bigger radiator.but i disagree about the water boiling,with a 15psi radiator cap in a closed loop system its not going to boil until about 250*,the only affects that i can see is less milage(who cars) and higher emmisions(more carbon build up).the other point here is even if the water was to stay at 160*the oil temperature still gets to 200*thats what matters.i was shocked when i got my c5 and it runs 220*+,the high speed fans dont come on until 235*,no thanks.always run the proper coolant also to keep the water pump lubricated.ive done much track experiments with my c5,cooling temps 195* 13.4 at 105,210*or higher 13.7 at 102 with a little engine knock.i have since modified my c5 t-stat(cut 2 coils off the spring)now it runs at 185*,i still need the fan switch,the oil temp has not changed,car runs much better at 185*,no power loss.another thing is i dont use waterwetter or that other stuff,if g.m. does not say to add it,theres a reason.just my opinion,later,Todd.
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- #8
E
Eagle85C4
Guest
You folks are beating a dead horse...I will never understand why so many uninformed try to re-engineer what degreed engineers have done. The car is supposed to run at a certain temp...if it does not then something is wrong. Fix the problem....coming up with all these "alternate engineering" fixes does not fix the problem....if a 195° stat came stock then run a 195....lowering it to 160 does not make it run any cooler...it just opens sooner and the car will run up to temp anyway....with the given specification of radiator size , cooling area and amount of coolent being static you will only get it to run so cool without re-engineering the cooling system. Tell you what....mount a radiator on top of the removable roof...where it will get plenty of air, increase the coolent amount and size of the heat exchanger and then maybe you can get it to run say -10....
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- #9
H
hawaii-5-lo
Guest
hello there,
they are designed to run this hot so the car has low emissions.your car will run cooler if you reprogram the computer to turn the fans on sooner,this is not some elaborate re-engineering,its like changing the temps on your refridgerator,you just want it cooler.a hot motor sucks at the track and theres no two ways about it.ive lowered the temps on all my cars and my friends do the same.the track times all drop.the other good thing is the under hood heat is drastically lower so the vacuum hoses and plastic dont rot and fade as fast.getting it to run right at 160* is tuff,but if you change to a bigger radiator you could do this.i agree about beating the dead horse,if you want it to run cooler change t-stat and turn fans on early if not leave the horse alone
later,Todd.
they are designed to run this hot so the car has low emissions.your car will run cooler if you reprogram the computer to turn the fans on sooner,this is not some elaborate re-engineering,its like changing the temps on your refridgerator,you just want it cooler.a hot motor sucks at the track and theres no two ways about it.ive lowered the temps on all my cars and my friends do the same.the track times all drop.the other good thing is the under hood heat is drastically lower so the vacuum hoses and plastic dont rot and fade as fast.getting it to run right at 160* is tuff,but if you change to a bigger radiator you could do this.i agree about beating the dead horse,if you want it to run cooler change t-stat and turn fans on early if not leave the horse alone
later,Todd.
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- 1996 LT4 Supercharged and 2002 Z06 656 whp
Wildman,
I think you better do your own research and test but believe me; do not listen the "dealer and/or out of the factory guys", the kind that believes everything in the vette is made just for your own good and the best performance of your engine!
No way!
The best advice that I can give you is to listen to the experience of all this vette people and:
1.- Put on a 160° stat.
2.- Turn on the fans at 175°- 180° if you can (switch or chip)
After some time, some questions to the right people, some testing and some reading about this subject you will know the factory high settings will kill your engine and your pocket. There are too many non factory improvements out there you can do for your pride and joy.
Just my own experience. (2 cents?)
I think you better do your own research and test but believe me; do not listen the "dealer and/or out of the factory guys", the kind that believes everything in the vette is made just for your own good and the best performance of your engine!
No way!
The best advice that I can give you is to listen to the experience of all this vette people and:
1.- Put on a 160° stat.
2.- Turn on the fans at 175°- 180° if you can (switch or chip)
After some time, some questions to the right people, some testing and some reading about this subject you will know the factory high settings will kill your engine and your pocket. There are too many non factory improvements out there you can do for your pride and joy.
Just my own experience. (2 cents?)
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- #11
E
Eagle85C4
Guest
I have done research...I am an Engineer it is my job to do R/D.
Let us look at the facts and a bit of physics shall we...
1) The size of the radiator remains the same.
2) The amount of coolant remains the same.
3) The opening in which air travels through to cool the radiator
remains the same.
4) The variable is the amount and speed at which the air
travels through the radiator to provide cooling. And there is
a saturation level to that as well.
5) Regardless of what degree temp the thermostat is, once it is
opened it is out of the equation.
6) Coolant flow is also variable, but there is a minimum, idle, and
maximum, WOT.
7) The thermal qualities of antifreeze and or water are also a
constant.
Now, by changing to a lower degree temp thermostat, all you accomplish is opening it sooner, because of the existing limitations to the system it will still run as hot. By turning the fans on earlier you increase air flow through the radiator and provide more heat exchange, but it does not change the limitation to the system. It will still run as hot, it may take longer to get up to temp but if stressed it will still run up to factory temp settings.
The only way to really change the level of cooling is to change one of the static items....provide for more coolant, increase the size of the radiator, open up the air duct into the radiator cavity allowing for more air to pass through, change the properties of the coolant for something that allows for better thermal transfer.
The Corvette is a sports car. It was designed to be a sports car. You open the hood of any conventional vehicle and look at the cooling system and it is large compared to the vette, it's cooling system was designed to operate at maximun efficiency for the space allowed. Change anything from stock configuration and you start to have a problem. The biggest is gunk plugging up the holes through which air travels in the condenser and radiator.
At least once a year you should take the shroud off and clean it out, I personally use high pressure water to clean mine out, I remove the radiator and clean it by hand and spray the condenser and the compartment for them out of all debris.
Now after having said all of this, my 85 runs normally at 186°, in traffic it will climb up to 220 with or without the A/C running. With the switch installed the temps will run to 195-200, but that is relevant to the driving situation at the time. It still can and will run up to 220.
Let us look at the facts and a bit of physics shall we...
1) The size of the radiator remains the same.
2) The amount of coolant remains the same.
3) The opening in which air travels through to cool the radiator
remains the same.
4) The variable is the amount and speed at which the air
travels through the radiator to provide cooling. And there is
a saturation level to that as well.
5) Regardless of what degree temp the thermostat is, once it is
opened it is out of the equation.
6) Coolant flow is also variable, but there is a minimum, idle, and
maximum, WOT.
7) The thermal qualities of antifreeze and or water are also a
constant.
Now, by changing to a lower degree temp thermostat, all you accomplish is opening it sooner, because of the existing limitations to the system it will still run as hot. By turning the fans on earlier you increase air flow through the radiator and provide more heat exchange, but it does not change the limitation to the system. It will still run as hot, it may take longer to get up to temp but if stressed it will still run up to factory temp settings.
The only way to really change the level of cooling is to change one of the static items....provide for more coolant, increase the size of the radiator, open up the air duct into the radiator cavity allowing for more air to pass through, change the properties of the coolant for something that allows for better thermal transfer.
The Corvette is a sports car. It was designed to be a sports car. You open the hood of any conventional vehicle and look at the cooling system and it is large compared to the vette, it's cooling system was designed to operate at maximun efficiency for the space allowed. Change anything from stock configuration and you start to have a problem. The biggest is gunk plugging up the holes through which air travels in the condenser and radiator.
At least once a year you should take the shroud off and clean it out, I personally use high pressure water to clean mine out, I remove the radiator and clean it by hand and spray the condenser and the compartment for them out of all debris.
Now after having said all of this, my 85 runs normally at 186°, in traffic it will climb up to 220 with or without the A/C running. With the switch installed the temps will run to 195-200, but that is relevant to the driving situation at the time. It still can and will run up to 220.
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- #12
H
hawaii-5-lo
Guest
hello again,
i am a mechanical engineer myself.we deal with very large heat exchangers and steam,etc.i did not want to mention that but oh well,you said it yourself,increase air fow and that will cool the radiator faster,thats the whole reason for turning the fans on early,granted the fans will probably never shut off because they work to keep it cooler.i agree about saturation point,thats why its hard to get it to run right at 160*even in traffic my 89 would not go over 190* because the 'factory fan setting'has been changed so the fan never shut off.before the t-stat and fan change the temp would get to 225*because the fan would be off.kick on at 225* and you could see the temp drop right to 205*(or what ever it was its been a while since i owned the car)the fan would go off at 205 and the temp would climb again,but as soon as the fan came back on it would drop instantly.but at 205 fan off again temp climb again.
heres a good example-
my c5 ran 220* to 230*,those are fan settings,the t-stat is 195*.i took out the t-stat and cut 2 coils off.i did not do the fan yet because i dont have the switch yet,the car still ran at the same temps,but turn on the a/c (fans run continuously)and the temp comes right down to 185* and stays there hows that for physics,so when i get the fan switch it will stay there because the fans will not shut off.i dont know how much cooler it can run,but if i put a 55 gallon drum in place of the radiator, it would run as cool as i wanted.my friend (on this forum)put in a 160*t-stat,sent the chip out,chip came back,fans on at 180*off at 160*,his car never gets over 185*even in traffic,and its humid here too.if g.m. designed the cooling system to have the saturation point just above operating temps,then a few pebbles stuck in your radiator and you would be overheating,thats not realistic.i sit in the staging line at the track for long periods,coolant temps are critical,and they are controlable-to a point.later,Todd.
i am a mechanical engineer myself.we deal with very large heat exchangers and steam,etc.i did not want to mention that but oh well,you said it yourself,increase air fow and that will cool the radiator faster,thats the whole reason for turning the fans on early,granted the fans will probably never shut off because they work to keep it cooler.i agree about saturation point,thats why its hard to get it to run right at 160*even in traffic my 89 would not go over 190* because the 'factory fan setting'has been changed so the fan never shut off.before the t-stat and fan change the temp would get to 225*because the fan would be off.kick on at 225* and you could see the temp drop right to 205*(or what ever it was its been a while since i owned the car)the fan would go off at 205 and the temp would climb again,but as soon as the fan came back on it would drop instantly.but at 205 fan off again temp climb again.
heres a good example-
my c5 ran 220* to 230*,those are fan settings,the t-stat is 195*.i took out the t-stat and cut 2 coils off.i did not do the fan yet because i dont have the switch yet,the car still ran at the same temps,but turn on the a/c (fans run continuously)and the temp comes right down to 185* and stays there hows that for physics,so when i get the fan switch it will stay there because the fans will not shut off.i dont know how much cooler it can run,but if i put a 55 gallon drum in place of the radiator, it would run as cool as i wanted.my friend (on this forum)put in a 160*t-stat,sent the chip out,chip came back,fans on at 180*off at 160*,his car never gets over 185*even in traffic,and its humid here too.if g.m. designed the cooling system to have the saturation point just above operating temps,then a few pebbles stuck in your radiator and you would be overheating,thats not realistic.i sit in the staging line at the track for long periods,coolant temps are critical,and they are controlable-to a point.later,Todd.
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- #13
H
HOTMOTORSPORTS
Guest
Thanks hawaii-5-lo,
The biggest thing I got out of this is changing the air flow. It's like installing a bigger radiator. Either more air or more radiator, it should add up to about the same results.
That was alot of help to many people out here.
Chuck
The biggest thing I got out of this is changing the air flow. It's like installing a bigger radiator. Either more air or more radiator, it should add up to about the same results.
That was alot of help to many people out here.
Chuck
iron cross
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- Dearborn Mi.
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- Unrestored one owner 1962 Black FI car
I agree!
:BOWhawaii-5-lo said:hello there,
they are designed to run this hot so the car has low emissions.your car will run cooler if you reprogram the computer to turn the fans on sooner,this is not some elaborate re-engineering,its like changing the temps on your refridgerator,you just want it cooler.a hot motor sucks at the track and theres no two ways about it.ive lowered the temps on all my cars and my friends do the same.the track times all drop.the other good thing is the under hood heat is drastically lower so the vacuum hoses and plastic dont rot and fade as fast.getting it to run right at 160* is tuff,but if you change to a bigger radiator you could do this.i agree about beating the dead horse,if you want it to run cooler change t-stat and turn fans on early if not leave the horse alone
vader86
Well-known member
I have a Physics degree myself.
I had a 195 for quite a while. I dont like it running that hot, because the stock radiator is too damned small to cool the engine down if it gets much past the stock fan setting of 228F (i think it was 228).
SO i installed a 160, and in the same amound of driving, the temperatures DID NOT get up to that magical temp of 228F, DURING SUMMER IN SOUTH CAROLINA, on all but the very hottest days in heavy city traffic.
Then i had my chip reprogrammed to make the fans come on at 195 and off at 175. On occasion the oil temp still gets to 200-210 but the coolant stays in the 170-185 range the entire time.
And track testing has shown that the colder the coolant is on the L98, the better it performs. You can also advance timing a little more, and the L98 DOES LIKE THAT.
there are always people who say that you should run stock everything, but i couldnt care less, its my car and i'm not gonna blow a damned head gasket because my car overheated sitting in traffic
I had a 195 for quite a while. I dont like it running that hot, because the stock radiator is too damned small to cool the engine down if it gets much past the stock fan setting of 228F (i think it was 228).
SO i installed a 160, and in the same amound of driving, the temperatures DID NOT get up to that magical temp of 228F, DURING SUMMER IN SOUTH CAROLINA, on all but the very hottest days in heavy city traffic.
Then i had my chip reprogrammed to make the fans come on at 195 and off at 175. On occasion the oil temp still gets to 200-210 but the coolant stays in the 170-185 range the entire time.
And track testing has shown that the colder the coolant is on the L98, the better it performs. You can also advance timing a little more, and the L98 DOES LIKE THAT.
there are always people who say that you should run stock everything, but i couldnt care less, its my car and i'm not gonna blow a damned head gasket because my car overheated sitting in traffic
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- #16
H
hawaii-5-lo
Guest
the heat killed my L98 and the heat kills my LS1 also.
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- 1996 LT4 Supercharged and 2002 Z06 656 whp
The heat killed my L98 and was killing my LT1 (my brother´s L98 is almost dead)
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About the only thing I have to add to this discussion is a comment on 'closed loop' control of the engine.
One of the concerns with going to a 160 stat is getting the engine up to a high enough temperature to allow the controls to switch to 'closed loop' programming. The number I was told for my car is 170 degrees - below 170 equals open loop, above 170 equals closed loop.
Open loop programming uses tables for fuel management. Closed loop brings in the O2 sensors and manages the fuel/air ratio for optimum performance.
This is only an issue for me during the coldest days in the winter where I may not see the coolant temp get above 170 until I'm almost ready to park at work. Even then, if I'm in the car for more than 15 minutes, even with the 160 stat, I see the coolant temps raise above 170 and it usually stays there for the rest of the drive.
I also changed my chip to turn on the fans sooner so that it doesn't get too hot before the fans kick in and cool it back down.
That's all I've got.
One of the concerns with going to a 160 stat is getting the engine up to a high enough temperature to allow the controls to switch to 'closed loop' programming. The number I was told for my car is 170 degrees - below 170 equals open loop, above 170 equals closed loop.
Open loop programming uses tables for fuel management. Closed loop brings in the O2 sensors and manages the fuel/air ratio for optimum performance.
This is only an issue for me during the coldest days in the winter where I may not see the coolant temp get above 170 until I'm almost ready to park at work. Even then, if I'm in the car for more than 15 minutes, even with the 160 stat, I see the coolant temps raise above 170 and it usually stays there for the rest of the drive.
I also changed my chip to turn on the fans sooner so that it doesn't get too hot before the fans kick in and cool it back down.
That's all I've got.
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- #19
H
hawaii-5-lo
Guest
hey Tuna,
this is true,thats why i am programing my fans on 180*-off 170*.i use the 160*t-stat because 180*still to hot for me.the fan will never turn off unless its cool outside,but thats ok because im usually driving during daytime with a/c on(fans always running)your car also goes into 'open loop' at wide open throttle.you probably already new that thou. later,Todd.
this is true,thats why i am programing my fans on 180*-off 170*.i use the 160*t-stat because 180*still to hot for me.the fan will never turn off unless its cool outside,but thats ok because im usually driving during daytime with a/c on(fans always running)your car also goes into 'open loop' at wide open throttle.you probably already new that thou.
later,Todd.
the break point for open and closed loop is 160 degrees, unless I was mis-informed. With a 160 degree stat, the car will still run above 160, especially in a hot climate.
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