1969 Vette -- questions before I buy...

[NewToVette]

Although I've never owned a vette I have always had an eye on the 1969 -71s. I've been looking the last few years. I found one that I am bringing a friend over on Sat to inspect it more. It is a 1969 350/350hp 4 spd coupe with 76,000 miles. The block numbers match but the carb, headers, exhaust, air filter, seat covers, steering wheel are not original. There is some rust on the frame at the front where the hood allows water to drip and under the doors on both sides of the car (along with the end caps at this location). The engine was rebuilt a few years ago but the seller does not have a list of what was done. The seller buys and sells vettes as a hobby and found this one last year at a great price so he bought it with the intention of reselling it. He never tagged it and has not driven it much. I've been told it drives straight. The car has a new clutch and SS brakes. Although its not in top condition, the price is very attractive at $9800. I plan to get the carb in better condition and/or replace it and would like to drive it as an "extra" car -- not daily but i want to drive it. I could work on the suspension and carb at this price. Overall, the car looks great from the outside.

What should i look for on the frame to determine if its a little rust versus walking away? What else in this year should i pay attention to while inspecting it? The seller seems honest and will be able to help me if i know what to look for. With others experience is this something to get into or is it better to spend a little more money (however from what i've seen i would need to pay $18 to $22k for something much better)?

thanks, tim

 

[tonyk72]

I noticed your in MD...not sure how close you are to Gaithersburg...but if you really would like to know the in's & outs of this car bring it to Tony's Corvette Shop. For $250 he will spend about 2-4 hours going over every inch of the car. The good thing is that he encourages you to stand along side to ask questions and learn! Even if you don't end up buying the car, the experience you gain from this will make you feel much more confident inspecting your next 'vette.

Other than that, look for rust on the frame right in front of the rear tires, look all around the windshield frame and the radiator support.

Also, I know somebody who just picked up a '69 350/350 roadster, 4spd, matching #'s, with solid frame for less than $9k. Not saying this is common, but the deals are out there!

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

There is some rust on the frame at the front where the hood allows water to drip and under the doors on both sides of the car (along with the end caps at this location).

Uh oh................

Don't even think about buying this car unless you have the frame and birdcage inspected 100%. There's a reason that the price is so low.

Pull out the kick panels in each footwell. If you see more than minor surface corrosion on the door pillar posts, best pass on the car. You'd be looking at up to 10-15K for correct repairs in worst case.

It's never commercially worthwhile to buy a structurally unsound car. Let somebody else pay the big bucks to fix it, then you buy it from them at their loss.

 

[NewToVette]

Thanks for the suggestions. I called Tony at Tony's Corvette Shop in maryland (301) 987-0565 (they have a web site as well) and for $250 they do an evaluation. They go over the car with me for 2 to 3 hours. Even if it doesn't "pass" what I am looking for and can repair, the money will be well spent (i.e., safety concerns as well as an education!). I did this with boats before, some of which i bought and some of which i passed on -- was always happy to spend the little bit of money upfront. First I'll look at it with a friend who knows about engines to see if it is worth bringing it to Tony's.

 

[red70vette]

RUST, RUST, RUST.

Yes fiberglass cars do rust. There are two areas on a C3 that are very prone to rust.
1. The rear frame kick up where the frame bends up to go over the rear wheel well in front of the rear wheels.$$$$$$$

2. The birdcage windshield frame. Poorly installed glass causes water to leak into the windshield frame and then run down the birdcage to the frame. Windshield posts rust and frame rusts.$$$$$ times 2.

Agree with previous poster let a qualified Corvette restorer look at the car and learn. It will be the best $250.00 you will ever spend. Even if it just saves you some lost sleep.

 

[NewToVette]

Well, I went over today with two friends more knowledgeable about cars and old car restorations. We looked it over (and under) for 45 minutes with flashlights and mirrors (5 degrees outside and windy -- some pretty good friends). They liked it alot. The rust on frame rails not that bad, could not see any structural problems. Engine numbers matched. Besides the worn bushings etc from a 35 year old car they thought the car was driveable as is, surprised it was in as good shape as it is, and that I could upgrade/restore with time (e.g., new electronic ignition, rebuild carb).

I am going to go back to drive it around tomorrow (no power brakes and manual steering -- I want to make sure its something I will be happy with) and bring the wife. (Of course another guy I work with that used to be into muscle cars thought that it would be cheaper and less hassle to go get a girl friend on the side instead!!) I think i'll make an offer. My goal is to be able to drive it, have my 16 yr old son help me keep it running/tinker with it, and be able to sell it in a couple of years for college money -- if need be.

I appreciated the reponses and if there is any last minute advise I will be test driving (and buying?) tomorrow afternoon.

 

[69MyWay]

What is the condition of the VIN tag in the windshield frame?

Is it even there anymore, rusted to oblivion, ??????

The rust you see in the front where the hood opens is the radiator core support. That will cost you about $350 plus some paint and an afternoon to swap it out.

The rust in the doors....I assume you mean actually on the door itself at the bottom front below the hinge. This is a common problem. A 1/2" or size hole there is no big deal. It it is larger than that, or you have five or six 1/2" rust holes there...that door is in need of replacement. Often times, it has been fixed before and what you are seeing is the rust pushing through the old body filler.

Take a business card and slip it in the edge of the front winshield and slid it around. See if it comes out orange and rusty. This is a bad sign of serious rot in the A pillar and windshield frame.

Removing the kick panel is a great idea. However, that area almost always looks bad. There are degrees of bad. If you can't make out a bolt head any longer in the bottom of that area....move on. If you can make out the bolt head, and there is sold metal all around you are on the up and up.

Take a small hammer with you. Get the back of the car up high enoung to reach under. Tap/rap on the rear frame rails in front of the rear tires and across the cross member that goes just in front of the rear tires. That hammer should just bounce off. If it hits with a thud, and dents the metal in....you got major problems.

You may still want the car as a fun father son project, but you need to hit the guy about $4000 if there is soft metal in the rear, or clear signs the bird cage is shot. It will cost you another $5-7K to replace the frame and weld/section in new metal around the windshield and A pillars, and about a year or so of working it on the side. So, in the end you come out about right.

If it is mostly solid, then the price is about right.

Remember, without power steering, brakes, etc....it is going to drive like a Semi Truck. Don't be surprised. That is old technology holding that car up.

You can add power steering, etc. later. I doubt your wife will be impressed with the way it drives. She will feel unsafe, and not interested in ever getting behind the wheel until you add power options and tighten it all up.

Good luck and have fun.

Post pictures for us.

 

[NewToVette]

Thanks for reply. I went over and went for the test drive. The 69 Vette (coupe) drove about the way I expected (manual brakes and no power steering). Brakes are new (SS) and they seem fine. The steering, although tough to turn when car is in tight spots (i.e., while just getting into first gear), was fine while driving above 10 mph or so. It will be a toy and not a commuting car so I will have fun with it. *****However, it is a little nerve racking right now!! -- as i have never bought a car like this before.************ But I have always loved the 69 to 71 Vettes -- really the only sports car I want to own. From 1984 to 1995 I owned, 71 Dart, 75 Dart, 77 Mercury Montego, 75 Rabbit, I drove and repaired these old rust heaps because of lack of finances, and kept them running out of necessity. For the past 2 years I have wanted and looked on the internet for a classic Vette but never found one that I though I could commute in (they are old vehicles). Now, with enough new cars for the 3 of us to commute in/school/sports, I am buying this 35 year old classic for fun.

As suggested, I took the little hammer over and got under the car and hammered everything I could that was part of the frame. Everywhere, except where I saw some rust yesterday, had a good solid sound to it, no flaking at all. I was surpised how good of shape it was!! The spot on the frame that is a little rusted, ~10 inch section from the rear wheel towards front of car along outside bottom rail frame edge, did not have a solid sound with the hammer. However, the same 10 inch section seems to have plenty of good steel left on the inside edges and other side of the bottom (if that makes sense -- i.e., if rail frame is 5 inches across on the bottom, there is a 2 to 3 inch piece without that solid ping sound with the hammer, the other 2 inches has steel left). Also, the small triangle piece of frame connecting the crossmember to the side rail in same area is sound with no flaking at all.

He was asking $9800 and I know he turned down an offer for $8500 from a guy who was going to sell the motor to a friend and drop in a 383 he already had to make a hot rod. I offered $9200 but he wanted $9500. He said he saw similar cars in same condition at Carlise, PA listed at $13,900. What's a few extra hundred for a toy?! So I agreed to $9500 and we will meet tomorrow to go to bank for the money. [I figured he is in the car business and saw this as a steal and could resell it to somebody. I told him I figured he probably paid $6K for it last year but he would not tell me. But, that doesn't really matter to me.]

Although a little over whelmed right now, I think it is a good driveable classic car that my 16 year old son and I will have fun with and learn about upgrades and repairs while still being able to drive it. My son will only be allowned to drive it with me in the passenger seat. I'll keep it in the garage and will not drive it in the rain so it should not deteriorate. The seller said if I really had to get out of it fast and put it up for sale at $7800 people would be breaking my door down to buy it. From looking at these cars for the past 2 years, I think under $11K for what seems to be a pretty solid running car is a good buy.

Once again thanks for the replys and I will post pics later this week (I'll need to figure out how to do that). Any other thoughts or encouragement on this board will be appreciated. I will keep scaning the posts and saving all of the repair tips I see in this forum, along with web sites for parts. I OWN A 1969 CORVETTE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rowdy1]

NICE!!!

Congrats and welcome. If nothing else, look at this a couple of ways. You have something you've wanted for a long time, you'll get an education in a classic Corvette, but most important, it'll be something you will look back on in years down the road as a Father/Son bonding, that, you can't buy once the years and opportunity are gone. Looking forward to those pictures!!!

 

[NewToVette]

Rowdy1, You hit the nail on the head. That is exactly how I view this!!

 

[Rowdy1]

Great Tim

It's an opportunity I wish I would have had. Take advantage of it.