N
Ned Sutton
Guest
This one is off the market, just won a NCRS Top Flight award. Thanks for looking
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*89x2*
Well-known member
Congrats Ned on your Top Flight Award, your Callaway is only the second one I am aware of that earned Top Flight 
The NCRS Judging is still evolving and seeing a low mile car like yours, I am sure helps everyone involved - Enjoy!
The NCRS Judging is still evolving and seeing a low mile car like yours, I am sure helps everyone involved - Enjoy!
kruzmisl
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2003
- Messages
- 389
- Location
- Leawood KS
- Corvette
- 1989 B2K Callaway/ 1966 Corvette Coupe
Ned,
More info please! Since NCRS is new to us all, how did it go? Regional, National? How was the judging sheet? Were the judges knowlegible on Callaways? What was your score? Inquiring minds want to know!
More info please! Since NCRS is new to us all, how did it go? Regional, National? How was the judging sheet? Were the judges knowlegible on Callaways? What was your score? Inquiring minds want to know!
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- #4
N
Ned Sutton
Guest
NCRS judging
They work with 4510 points. Every number they can get to is checked. They spent a half hour looking for a number on the gas cap. My car came from the Malcolm Konner dealership and still has the BBS wheels on original tires. They hit me pretty hard for the wheels put the car still scored 98.3. NCRS had alot of documentation on the B2K but some was wrong, they were going to make some recommendations to National NCRS to update. As we all know some of the early 87 B2Ks did not have the code in the console build sheet, but they did accept my car because of some information I got from Chris that Mr. Callaway had made availible about these early cars years ago. I have entered the car for the Bloomington show but I have been told the judging membership at Bloomington most likely will reject my entry because of the B2K code. More to come on this issue when Chris gets back to me. Thanks for your interest in this old B2K that may not be welcome at Bloomington. Ned #35
jonstr
Well-known member
A 98.3 is a VERY strong Top Flight score, particularly if this was a Regional or National meet. Out of the 4510, you only lost about 76 points. That sounds like a very impressive car you have there.
Now that you've started, and scored that well, you should consider trying for a McLellan Award. The McLellan award requires a Regional Top Flight of 97 or better (which you may have just received), a successful Performance Verification test, and finally another 97%+ National Top Flight). It can be alot of work to get through the PV, but it is also alot of fun, and a great way to learn your car inside and out. I went through the Duntov award process for my '69 (Duntov award is the same as McLellan for the older cars). Lots of work, but it was very rewarding.
Congratulations!
*89x2*
Well-known member
Bloomington Gold Certification Standards & Callaway Corvettes...
Callaway Corvettes and the Bloomington Gold Certification process, revisited: April 2007.
This month, I received an email from an 87 Callaway Corvette owner here in the Callaway Forum about their car and what wheels it should have. The reason for their letter was due to the owner preparing their car for Bloomington Gold Certification in a couple months, and the wanted the right wheels after points were noted during a recent NCRS Judging event. Easy question for me, as I am privileged to serve as a Judge on the NCCB for Bloomington Gold, with C4’s as my era of expertise.
The wheels that should be on a Callaway Corvette as new, under what BG calls “Typical Factory Production,” is either 16” aluminum Corvette wheels, or 16” Dymag magnesium wheels. The car was riding on BBS wheels added by the selling dealer, Malcolm Konner Chevrolet. With that said, the hunt for the right wheels began… It was also during this conversation, I learned that the car did not have the RPO code “B2K” printed in the center console glovebox. Something that Bloomington Gold would look at and judge as the car not matching the trim tag for its (major) option(s), qualifying the car as eligible for a Silver award as the best it could possibly receive.
Conversations continued, and the Lead Judge for the C4 Team and I began to discuss the past Callaway Corvettes and the car presently set to be judged. Asked for information on Direct Conversion cars and other Callaway Corvettes, I secured information from the Callaway Cars Company that detailed reasons for why this car, and some others would have been built without the code. It was not because they were considered Direct Conversion cars.
I reviewed some files from that era on cars built and noticed that the cars that WERE Direct Conversion cars, said so right on their folders – right across the top. These were cars that were done after they had been purchased and in some cases, equipment was not typical for that year (flat hood on 1987, larger wheels, different airbox, etc.). Looking at this cars file, it was clear that the car was done when new, and delivered back to the dealership that ordered the car with ~ 80 validation miles. This is the same process that any other new Twin Turbo Callaway Corvette went through and with the parts “pick-list” in hand, the components were clearly the same as the cars before that had B2K in the glovebox, and cars afterwards.
With this information in hand, calls were made back and forth between the BG Judges. It was agreed upon that this car would fit the “typical factory production” standard if it hadn’t been altered since and the case would now be considered by the “powers to be.” It was also understood that cars were secured by Callaway Dealers to prime the system when cars could not be ordered fast enough, etc.
The other mention made during this process that I think is very important is this - if you went into the dealer and bought this car, would you have looked, let alone been concerned to look for the B2K code in the glovebox? Of course not. You bought the car you read about in the magazines that was a Callaway Corvette and honored with full a warranty and backed by Chevrolet. Nothing in the papers I saw, proved otherwise and this was very important I think, in the decision process that was to follow.
A few days went by, and an email came in with the decision – This Callaway Corvette would be eligible for NCCB Judging at Bloomington Gold. It could go for the GOLD! However, this Callaway Twin Turbo Corvette and ANY OTHER CALLAWAY (1987-1991) that does NOT have the B2K code in the glovebox must show with documented proof from Callaway Cars (paperwork) that the car was done when new. The burden of proof however, is on the OWNER to supply that information at the time of judging.
It was also interesting to note that during this process, I was able to report to the owner of this Callaway, that their car did not come with Dymags. It was released on the standard Corvette wheels, with the BBS wheels then being added by the dealer. We all understood the car could not be judged with those BBS wheels for full credit, as this is considered a dealer modification. It should also be noted that at this time, Direct Conversion cars will still fall under the standard of not meeting “typical factory production” by the ruling however, with all things, if there is a case to be heard, I am sure it can be entertained.
I hope this info is interesting, and benefits EVERY Callaway owner out there!
Enjoy your Callaways!
Callaway Corvettes and the Bloomington Gold Certification process, revisited: April 2007.
This month, I received an email from an 87 Callaway Corvette owner here in the Callaway Forum about their car and what wheels it should have. The reason for their letter was due to the owner preparing their car for Bloomington Gold Certification in a couple months, and the wanted the right wheels after points were noted during a recent NCRS Judging event. Easy question for me, as I am privileged to serve as a Judge on the NCCB for Bloomington Gold, with C4’s as my era of expertise.
The wheels that should be on a Callaway Corvette as new, under what BG calls “Typical Factory Production,” is either 16” aluminum Corvette wheels, or 16” Dymag magnesium wheels. The car was riding on BBS wheels added by the selling dealer, Malcolm Konner Chevrolet. With that said, the hunt for the right wheels began… It was also during this conversation, I learned that the car did not have the RPO code “B2K” printed in the center console glovebox. Something that Bloomington Gold would look at and judge as the car not matching the trim tag for its (major) option(s), qualifying the car as eligible for a Silver award as the best it could possibly receive.
Conversations continued, and the Lead Judge for the C4 Team and I began to discuss the past Callaway Corvettes and the car presently set to be judged. Asked for information on Direct Conversion cars and other Callaway Corvettes, I secured information from the Callaway Cars Company that detailed reasons for why this car, and some others would have been built without the code. It was not because they were considered Direct Conversion cars.
I reviewed some files from that era on cars built and noticed that the cars that WERE Direct Conversion cars, said so right on their folders – right across the top. These were cars that were done after they had been purchased and in some cases, equipment was not typical for that year (flat hood on 1987, larger wheels, different airbox, etc.). Looking at this cars file, it was clear that the car was done when new, and delivered back to the dealership that ordered the car with ~ 80 validation miles. This is the same process that any other new Twin Turbo Callaway Corvette went through and with the parts “pick-list” in hand, the components were clearly the same as the cars before that had B2K in the glovebox, and cars afterwards.
With this information in hand, calls were made back and forth between the BG Judges. It was agreed upon that this car would fit the “typical factory production” standard if it hadn’t been altered since and the case would now be considered by the “powers to be.” It was also understood that cars were secured by Callaway Dealers to prime the system when cars could not be ordered fast enough, etc.
The other mention made during this process that I think is very important is this - if you went into the dealer and bought this car, would you have looked, let alone been concerned to look for the B2K code in the glovebox? Of course not. You bought the car you read about in the magazines that was a Callaway Corvette and honored with full a warranty and backed by Chevrolet. Nothing in the papers I saw, proved otherwise and this was very important I think, in the decision process that was to follow.
A few days went by, and an email came in with the decision – This Callaway Corvette would be eligible for NCCB Judging at Bloomington Gold. It could go for the GOLD! However, this Callaway Twin Turbo Corvette and ANY OTHER CALLAWAY (1987-1991) that does NOT have the B2K code in the glovebox must show with documented proof from Callaway Cars (paperwork) that the car was done when new. The burden of proof however, is on the OWNER to supply that information at the time of judging.
It was also interesting to note that during this process, I was able to report to the owner of this Callaway, that their car did not come with Dymags. It was released on the standard Corvette wheels, with the BBS wheels then being added by the dealer. We all understood the car could not be judged with those BBS wheels for full credit, as this is considered a dealer modification. It should also be noted that at this time, Direct Conversion cars will still fall under the standard of not meeting “typical factory production” by the ruling however, with all things, if there is a case to be heard, I am sure it can be entertained.
I hope this info is interesting, and benefits EVERY Callaway owner out there!
Enjoy your Callaways!
- Thread starter
- #7
N
Ned Sutton
Guest
Bloomington certificate
This Callaway #35 received 3 awards at Bloomington this [2007] year, survival certificate, Bloomington Gold certificate, and the Benchmark award. Plans are made to go to the Rocky Mountain NCRS Regionals in 2008.
This Callaway #35 received 3 awards at Bloomington this [2007] year, survival certificate, Bloomington Gold certificate, and the Benchmark award. Plans are made to go to the Rocky Mountain NCRS Regionals in 2008.
LIFTMAN
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2005
- Messages
- 31
- Location
- LONG ISLAND NY
- Corvette
- 1989,CALLAWAY,1962,1966 BIGBLOCK ROADSTER, 2001
Ned good luck at the regional. My 1989 b2k #35 received a top flight at the nationals in boston. I am on the national judging team so if I make it to Denver I will judge your car. I am planning on having my car judged in Bloomington this june. What if any is the difference between ncrs and bloomington in their judging procedure ?
LIFTMAN
[MARK]
LIFTMAN
[MARK]
- Thread starter
- #9
S
SurfnSun
Guest
Yea it was really unfortunate that Chris didn't get any credit in the magazine article for making it so your car would be accepted for the awards despite its lack of a B2k RPO. I remember he and I discussing that issue at length when he was doing the legwork on it.
- Thread starter
- #10
N
Ned Sutton
Guest
Bloomington
Hi Mark, NCRS is alot more intense taking hours to judge a car where Bloomington judges did'nt spend more than 45 minutes for each certificate, don't get me wrong they know what they are doing but won't spend alot of time on the little things. do you drive your car? what is the mileage?
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- #11
N
Ned Sutton
Guest
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- #12
S
SurfnSun
Guest
LIFTMAN
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2005
- Messages
- 31
- Location
- LONG ISLAND NY
- Corvette
- 1989,CALLAWAY,1962,1966 BIGBLOCK ROADSTER, 2001
Hi Ned, yes i drive my callaway , but not to much. It has 20,135 miles on it . I am the sixth owner and have had it since may 2004. My plans are to obtain the triple crown and then pv it .I am going to bloomington this june, and have not decided about the regional in denver yet. I will be in fla. for the winter regional are you going ?
MARK
MARK
kruzmisl
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2003
- Messages
- 389
- Location
- Leawood KS
- Corvette
- 1989 B2K Callaway/ 1966 Corvette Coupe
I could look up the site, but when is the Denver show? Probably the closest regional to KC.
*89x2*
Well-known member
Ned, I am a bit bothered by your statment that the Bloomington Gold Judges did not (in your opinion posted here), spend a lot of time on, "the little things."
What little things do you feel were overlooked on your Callaway?
WIth a team of four, we spend about 45 minutes judging the section of the vehicle we are responsible for. If needed, we do take extra time for a car if it demands such, so in all, we take between 3 and 4 man-hours to judge each car.
As a Bloomington Gold Judge, we are expected to know the correct configuration of each component and the finish that it was assembled in. I can look at your car, or frankly any C4 and know. If we are not sure though - if there is any shadow of a doubt, we have two choices. We can get the Lead C4 Judge or let it pass. I get a second opinion.
Your Callaway is a very correct car and typical of production during that period. It judged very well. I know you were very concerned going into the process because your car does not have the RPO B2K stamp on the SPI label, something it needs for Bloomington Gold and NCRS Judging (I do not know enough about the procedures for judging at the Chevy Vette Fest to say how they would react). I tirelessly worked on solving the issue you had before you on this and was pleased when you were awarded the Gold, amongst the Survivor and Benchmark awards. None would have been possible without the hard work by the NCCB Staff of Bloomington Gold which as I said before, ultimately benefits all owners.
Enjoy your Callaway!
Chris.
*89x2*
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #17
N
Ned Sutton
Guest
HI Chris, as an example: checking the numbers on a hood hinge or gas cap lid, this is what the little things refer to, nothing more. The judging was excellent and very compedently done by very knowledgable staff at Bloomington. I have thanked you and the bloomington judges on many occassions, I don't know what else to do, maybe the member with the crystal ball has the answer. I also worked tirelessly on making sure all the documentation and information I have received and worked on, were in order. Yes, you are right, you and the NCCB staff went the extra mile to make this happen, and once again, Thank you very much. Ned
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- #18
S
SurfnSun
Guest
the NCRS would not pour over a gas cap looking for numbers when in fact they would simply look for the "S" for the brand code and a date code. There are no date codes, and it takes someone all of 10 seconds to check for the "S" and the date code along with the four holes, plus one in the middle that has a green dot insert. What lid are you referring? There is no date on the gas door.
It sounds to me like the Bloomington Gold guys may have a better process, or know the cars better. Either way, spending an hour on a gas cap is ridiculous.
It sounds to me like the Bloomington Gold guys may have a better process, or know the cars better. Either way, spending an hour on a gas cap is ridiculous.
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- #19
N
Ned Sutton
Guest
"IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME"
IT never fails to amaze me over the years that people that don't even own a corvette are such experts. As you state, "sounds like to me the guys at Bloomington Gold have a better process." Well, sounds like to me you have never been to one of these great events [bloomington or ncrs judging] to even know what you are talking about. Don't have to have a car to follow both judging process, then you can give your opinion, that would be worth the members looking at. Your crystal ball does not have all the answers, do your own legwork and learn from it instead of guessing from a defective crystal ball.the NCRS would not pour over a gas cap looking for numbers when in fact they would simply look for the "S" for the brand code and a date code. There are no date codes, and it takes someone all of 10 seconds to check for the "S" and the date code along with the four holes, plus one in the middle that has a green dot insert. What lid are you referring? There is no date on the gas door.
It sounds to me like the Bloomington Gold guys may have a better process, or know the cars better. Either way, spending an hour on a gas cap is ridiculous.
- Thread starter
- #20
S
SurfnSun
Guest
If I don't even own a Corvette as you state.....I guess that fiberglass car I drove to work this morning isnt a Corvette. I must have been ripped off when I bought it! :L
BTW I have been to both Bloomington and several NCRS shows.
But I am curious.....Are you saying that Im wrong about the date coded gas cap? Please enlighten me. :confused
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