2000 c-5 temp range

[hdkeno]

I notice that my 2000 ls1 coolant temp fluctuates some depending on certain conditions.

Today i took a ride on the freeway about 60 miles temp stayed right at 195 or so,

Hit some traffic detour on the way back and was stuck in stop and go traffic for a while and the reading went up to 228 then back down.

I have noticed this before,and was told by a good friend who is also a Chevy tech,that this is normal for these engines.

The car has never gotten above that and no lights or messages come on,and most of the time it stays right at 195.

Any thoughts or feedback?

Thanks in advance, Ken

 

[Mark Watkins]

Sounds very normal.

Mark

 

[LLC5]

I notice that my 2000 ls1 coolant temp fluctuates some depending on certain conditions.

Today i took a ride on the freeway about 60 miles temp stayed right at 195 or so,

Hit some traffic detour on the way back and was stuck in stop and go traffic for a while and the reading went up to 228 then back down.

I have noticed this before,and was told by a good friend who is also a Chevy tech,that this is normal for these engines.

The car has never gotten above that and no lights or messages come on,and most of the time it stays right at 195.

Any thoughts or feedback?

Thanks in advance, Ken

You are fine. The thermostat opens at around 192 F and your radiator fans come on at about 228 F. Modern engines are designed to run at these temperatures for durability, performance, and mileage.

 

[hdkeno]

Many thanks Guys

 

[j84buick]

A lot of people including myself changed the fan settings when they got their car tuned. You can also do this via a hand held tuner like the Predator. That way the high speed fan kicks on at say 210 instead of 225. Helps to keep the engine much closer to 200 than 235.

 

[Junkman2008]

This discussion always baffles me. With all of the thousands of hours that went into the design and engineering of these engines, why do folks who don't have nearly the experience of the original designers constantly try to "redesign" this engine? It's not a 73 Buick!

The engine is designed to operate at the temperatures that it does. When you start changing the parameters that are built into the design, you affect other areas of the engine that you never see folks taking into consideration. It is one thing to rebuild the engine to be more robust which may require things like bigger radiators or reprogramming but to just start reprogramming the fans when you don't understand why the car runs at the temperatures that it does is just crazy. If the parts that make up your cooling system are operating correctly, there is absolutely no need to mess with the temperatures in which the fans turn on.

If you have cooling issues, address the issues. You don't redesign the system around your issues. That's avoiding the problem. Not smart.

 

[warren s]

This discussion always baffles me. With all of the thousands of hours that went into the design and engineering of these engines, why do folks who don't have nearly the experience of the original designers constantly try to "redesign" this engine? It's not a 73 Buick!

The engine is designed to operate at the temperatures that it does. When you start changing the parameters that are built into the design, you affect other areas of the engine that you never see folks taking into consideration. It is one thing to rebuild the engine to be more robust which may require things like bigger radiators or reprogramming but to just start reprogramming the fans when you don't understand why the car runs at the temperatures that it does is just crazy. If the parts that make up your cooling system are operating correctly, there is absolutely no need to mess with the temperatures in which the fans turn on.

If you have cooling issues, address the issues. You don't redesign the system around your issues. That's avoiding the problem. Not smart.

There is a very simple answer.

Because the engines were not designed with maximum power and longevity in mind. The goal was to meet emissions requirements and CAFÉ fuel regulations while still delivering good power.

Its called a compromise. You don’t have to be an engineer to know that an aluminum engine running with coolant temperatures of over 240 degrees is not in the best interest of performance.

The interest of people making things better then the GM engineers created in the first place is the corner stone of this hobby. (And the multi-million dollar industry that was created years ago for after market parts for all makes and models of cars)

 

[Junkman2008]

What you say is true but for every action there is a reaction that must be taken into consideration, no matter what the subject. If you don't compensate for the reaction, the gain you get can actually be a loss.

Take steroids for example. You become bigger, better and faster which is a good thing. However, the adverse effects are not worth the gains in the long run. Going back to an engine, poorly researched upgrading leads to detonation of the engine in a lot of cases. Every nut and bolt on GM's engine design has been considered to the point of exact torque settings. They don't just make those numbers up, that is hours upon hours of research and knowledge. If you change an important piece of something as critical as cooling, you must take into consideration the adverse affects on all the supporting cast and components. Not doing so could eliminate the gains you may think that you are getting by creating stress in an area that you haven't considered.

No one is saying not to upgrade your engine, what I am saying is to upgrade it based on a proven system or extensive knowledge. Changing the cooling parameters alone is not an upgrade, it is a re-engineering of a proven system that does not take into consideration the adverse affects on that proven design. I don't know remotely enough about engines to list every possible thing that doing so might effect, but I do know that Newton nailed it when he said:

To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction.

 

[Mark Watkins]

There is a very simple answer.

Because the engines were not designed with maximum power and longevity in mind. The goal was to meet emissions requirements and CAFÉ fuel regulations while still delivering good power.

Its called a compromise. You don’t have to be an engineer to know that an aluminum engine running with coolant temperatures of over 240 degrees is not in the best interest of performance.

The interest of people making things better then the GM engineers created in the first place is the corner stone of this hobby. (And the multi-million dollar industry that was created years ago for after market parts for all makes and models of cars)

The stock fan setting will never let the car see 240. If it hits 240 something is wrong with the car.

Mark

 

[Junkman2008]

The stock fan setting will never let the car see 240. If it hits 240 something is wrong with the car.

Mark

I tend to agree with this and whatever problem that exist that is creating this condition needs to be addressed, not when the fans turn on. Some guys don't realize that radiators wear out, water pumps wear out, hoses can get brittle and leak, the air flow can become obstructed and fluid can get old. Any of these things will cause your temperatures to flare upward. If you address the problem, you won't have to re-engineer the system.

From the service manual, here is exactly how the cooling fans are designed to work:

The low speed cooling fan is commanded on when the coolant temperature reaches 108°C (226°F). It is turned off if the coolant temperature lowers to 104°C (219°F). The high speed cooling fan is commanded on when the coolant temperature reaches 113°C (235°F). It is turned off if the coolant temperature lowers to 108°C (226°F). When the A/C is on and the coolant temperature reaches 85°C (185°F), the low speed cooling fan will be turned on at vehicle speeds less than 56 kPh (35 mph).

 

[warren s]

The stock setting is for the high speed fan to switch on at 235, when it comes on there is a period of time before it takes affect and 240 is not unheard of in a C5. I have seen it on C5s many times. Unless the cooling system is maintained well (radiator area kept clean and un-obstructed) it will take even longer. Even 235 is much higher than I want my car to run.

Adding a fan control switch or reprogramming the ECM to switch on the fans isn’t even close to “Re-engineering” the system.

Steroids?? Supporting cast and components?? Poorly researched upgrades leading to detonation?? What are you talking about?? The entire point here is about keeping the engine coolant below the maximum. Having the engine run cooler (to a point) will provide the exact opposite, allowing more spark advance and a richer mixture for more power. The trade off is, well – more power and slightly increased emissions at wide open throttle.

If you think the General designed a perfect car, then so be it. Keep your car bone stock.
I, like many other Corvette owners have found many areas to improve with no appreciable negative consequences.
I

 

[Junkman2008]

You can knock my point all you want but my theory is sound. Check with Paul and see what he thinks. Re-engineering or altering (if you prefer) has its advantages and disadvantages. No one said that GM's design was perfect, what I said was GM's design was thoroughly tested and well engineered. If you don't believe that then our discussion is pretty much mute.

I would love to see your engine design that is being mass produced and running reliably in multiple models of cars. That is, if you have one?

 

[warren s]

Your theory? What exactly is your theory? To just leave things as they are?

I don’t need to check with anyone. I have my own personal results from the slight modifications I have made to my Corvettes. Each Corvette that I have owned has exceeded factory performance specifications and achieved reduced fuel consumption in the process. This has been duplicated by many members here on this forum.

I also work on computers that were built by multi billion dollar corporations, and have enhanced their performance. No magic, just experience.

I didn’t design anything, I just improved on existing products – just like 100s if not 1000s of people on this forum have done before me and will continue to do with each generation of Corvette.

 

[Junkman2008]

If you're questioning my theory then you're not reading my post. If that's the case, there's no need for me to continue to explain. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

[warren s]

I read all of your posts.

I was just asking for you to specifically state it.

 

[Junkman2008]

Okay, "To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction."

I didn't come up with that, Newton did and it is sound. The more stress you put on your engine, the faster the components that make up your engine wear out. If you install a bigger radiator, you have to install a bigger water pump just to name one thing that I see overlooked all the time. There is a reason that the fans operate how and when they do. If you change that parameter, you affect other aspects of how the engine was designed to run.

Now is that true or false? If you say it is false, then this discussion is mute between you and I.

By the way, I own a computer consulting firm so computers are something I can definitely relate too. I also do a radio & TV show on technology so I am well versed in computers, even though my actual degree is in Electronic Engineering Technology. I am the guy who took the boards that other technicians replaced and figured out exactly what was wrong with them. This is why my trouble-shooting and diagnostic abilities are so strong. This is also why I always say to remedy the problem, not redesign the system. I figure out the problem BEFORE I replace the parts. All the technical write-ups that you see from me are typical of my mindset.

 

[warren s]

OK, very well put, understood.

I think you are misunderstanding the depth of the concept here. The level of modification I am talking about is minor in the scheme of things. For example the cooling system was designed to operate within certain parameters. The coolant can range in temperature from ambient to over 240 before the system attempts to lower it. As you already know. By allowing the manipulation of manual fan control to an existing system the coolant can be held down to a maximum of close to 200 degrees on a day when the ambient air temp is 100. Not only does this help keep things under the hood much cooler, it also keeps the tranny fluid on an automatic cooler. Under hood wiring and rubber parts laying on top of the engine don’t bake as much. I, and many others have noticed an increase in fuel economy and responsiveness at maintained lower temps. These cars are now between 13 and 6 years old. Having the engine cycle between 190 and 235 or more when stuck in traffic is not a positive attribute. I know the engines were designed to endure this, but I feel from experience that avoiding the extremes helps performance. Additionally the design specifications and existing stress tolerances of factory stock parts have a modest range of accommodation from factory production ranges before failure.. The drive train as it comes from the factory can handle a decent amount of extra power before failure. My guess is on a base LS1 engine and drive train another 50 hp can safely and reliably be handled. This is based on my experience with various C5 projects I have been involved with over the years. Oddly enough, many of the cars I worked on actually decreased fuel consumption with an increase in power. They all passed the local emissions tests.
Again, I am talking about rather simple modifications like the ones detailed in my website. Nothing even close to what would be considered as re-engineering.

 

[Junkman2008]

I can agree with all of that. The question that I would ask first is why was the engine designed to operate at the temperatures that it does if there was no benefit from it? Before I make changes to the original design, I would want to know why the original design was conceived, the pros and cons of it and what factors changing the original design would impact. Listing those in a side by side comparison, I can then say that yes I am willing to accept the cons with the changes that I am going to make or no, the cons outweigh the pros.

My whole thing is understanding the entire picture. Hindsight is always 20/20 but I seek the hindsight before the implementation. This way of thinking has kept me out of financial disparity because I asked the questions that other people may have had but didn't want to ask because of the stigma of being uninformed. Not me, if it ain't crystal clear, then that bus ain't leaving the depot.

I guess that's why I'm good with technology, especially computers. Like a transistor, there is no gray. It is either on or off. Computers know no gray. It either is or is not. When gray happens, it is usually followed by the color of blue. As a computer guy yourself, I'm sure you get the joke.

 

[warren s]

My whole thing is understanding the entire picture. Hindsight is always 20/20 but I seek the hindsight before the implementation. This way of thinking has kept me out of financial disparity because I asked the questions that other people may have had but didn't want to ask because of the stigma of being uninformed. Not me, if it ain't crystal clear, then that bus ain't leaving the depot.

I agree. I have made various modifications to my own vehicles based on the experience of others. Using their hindsight. I also observed no adverse affects. I increased performance and decreased fuel consumption.

Unlike a software application that is the compilation of millions of bits of data that can be brought down by just one of those bits either incorrectly placed or missing, the drive train of a C5 Corvette has decent amount latitude in its performance envelope.

I will never know exactly why the C5 is factory set to cycle from ambient to close to 250 degrees. I feel it’s of no advantage to allow that, and have experienced positive results by narrowing that spread. The only negative may be the duty cycle of the electric cooling fans will be expanded.

In it’s over 100 years of existence; General Motors has made many systems and vehicle lines. Some were great and some were not. Very few had no room for improvement, and some had lots.

Now as far as 160 degree thermostats and aftermarket ‘Tunes”…………J

 

[Junkman2008]

... Now as far as 160 degree thermostats and aftermarket ‘Tunes”…………J

And with that statement, you and I are totally, 100% in agreement! :L