2001 C5 pings!

[Vette Virgin]

I just bought a C5 with 12k miles on it and was stupid enough to listen to the Chevy salesman that the pings I heard on my test drive were due to bad gas. It performed just fine so I took his word for it.

After 4 tanks of gas (all with 91 octane) and the 5th tank with octane booster, I'm still getting these annoying pings.

I looked in the owners manual and it says that pings are normal on steep hills and high acceleration. NORMAL?? Should I take the owner's manual at its word? That's too wierd.

My thoughts are to take it back to chevy and utilize my warranty. Before I do that, I wanted some sage advice from some of you experts. Is this a quasi normal occurance? Could this be the knock sensor?

These pings are driving me bonkers. Please advise.

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,
NO, this is NOT normal.
There are a few ways to proceed here, so please, if I may.
First, you can attempt to add 12345515 fuel tank additive from GM to a full tank, and drive it. See how things are after the tank.
You can also add a product called 44k, which is a product from www.bgprod.com. This is also added to your fuel on a full tank, and is burned in the engine.
Both of these will assist in the reduction of carbon, which is what is causing your detonation.
Or, there is a decarbonization treatment that we in the service arena are doing. This takes about 2 hours, in which we add a decarbonizing treatment to each cylinder, and let sit overnight.
Then, burn it off the next day.
So with that, please let us know, as the 12345515 can be found in any GM dealership.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[Hib Halverson]

First of all, do not use pour-in octane boosters in a C5 or any Corvette with cataylitic convertors, for that matter. Most octane boosters are not capible of a practical improvment in octane and the few that are use "MMT" as the active ingrediant. MMT shortens the life of cat convertors. For more information about gasolines for street high-performance Corvettes see http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/index.htm

On the ping issue, one thing that was lacking in the first post was a little more detail about the detonation problem, ie: how severe, under what circumstances it occurs, how often it occurs, etc.

If this is a case of occasional audible detonation under normal (light load) driving conditions and a slight, very short-duration ping right at the onset of WOT, high-load (more often in hot weather) with all due respect to C4C5 Specialist, I'd consider that an annoyance and not a reliability/durability problem. I'd also submit that it's probably not a carbonization issue and may not have a practical solution, ie: these cars will not run totally detonation-free under all circumstances.

On the other hand, if this is a case of frequent audible detonation in a fairly wide variety of driving situations, then I'd agree with C4C5 Spec. that there is a problem and I'd suspect either poor-quality fuel, high IAT, high coolant temp., carbon build-up or any combination of those as the root cause(s).

Before I'd take the car to a service facility and pay for "decarbonization," I'd try a combination of one of the pour-in solutions C4C5 suggests coupled with some aggressive driving, particulary some high-load, WOT operation in higher gears. The idea is to not only "floor-it" but run the car hard for modest amount of time.

 

[Vette Virgin]

Specifics on my Pinging

Under normal driving, no pings at all. For example, when I get on a freeway onramp, I'll give it moderate gas and, while in overdrive, and right before it downshifts (yes, this is an automatic), and when it seems to lug before the downshift, that is when I hear ping....ping...ping ping............ping. Very sporatically

When I start playing with acceleration/ deceleration on the freeway, and I punch it, that seems to be when I start hearing the "Marbles in the jar" analogy.

Also, I can't be too scientific in this assessment, but it seems to pings more when its warm vs. cold.

Thus far, neither you nor c4/c5 have said that it could be the knock sensor, why is that?

Thanks for your input.

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi there,
I would suggest that there is not a knock sensor issue, because of the following.
First, your engine creates a certain frequency, and the knock sensor reads this, and transmits the signal to the PCM. This signal is classified as normal engine operation. Once knock is occuring, the signal changes, and the PCM see this as a knock occurance. It is NOT an off/on signal that is seen, it will be a progressive voltage change.
Now, second, if there was a knock sensor that was not reading, you would find a check engine light will illuminate, and a code stored.
Third, while I agree with Hib on a few points, one thing is this, that detonation will not cause any permanent damage, unless allowed to continue. This damage will be erosion of the piston crown, due to colliding flame fronts within the combustion chamber.
Audible knock is severe knock, this is certain, and should NOT be allowed to continue.
Steps MUST be taken, to ensure durability of the engine. The engine can take alot, however, it cannot hold up indefinately.
If you hear one knock, and its gone, you can feel safe that you should start to just keep tabs on the occurances. If it is a constant thing, meaning that everytime you drive the vehicle, you hear it, then I would take a more aggressive course of action.
If knock was ok, why would we have knock sensors, and an algorithm to prevent it????
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[RHill]

I 2nd running the vette hard for hour or two. I had a slight ping in mine but after running it hard WOT up and down some mountain twists roads no more ping here.

I would run the vette up and down tight mountain switch backs putting a hard load on it and also keep it in the lower gears and not just stick it in drive.

 

[freods]

Some time ago I complained of pinging in my 98 C5 on this forum. When I first bought the car new in 98 it ran for a year without any pinging. The second year I noticed pinging in hot weather when the engine might lag a bit before shifts. It became progressively worse until it virtually pinged all the time in the summer. It was suggested I use BG44k to decarbonize the engine. Well I just ran through my first tankfull treated with BG44k and so far no pings under any conditions. Of course the 85 degree weather hasnt hit yet, but I think I notice a more immediate response when accelerating also. For 18.95 a can it was worth a try and it seemed to work so far.

 

[Chick]

Will you please e-mail me your VIN I am going to look at the history on your car and make an assessment. I have an idea, not that the above ideas especially c4c5's are not on the money but I have an idea not touched on yet.

chick@vettechick.com

 

[TODD L GRIFFITH]

Pinging

Have you looked at your DIC for any codes? Seeing that you are a new owner, are you aware that you can check for codes without a scan tool? There are more than a few things it could be, and more than a few ways to stop it from pinging. I would take a look for codes first, and try to narrow it down initially. Some intermittent failures may not generate a service engine soon light, but will carry a history.

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi there,
Clarification need to be added here.
Todd is absolutely correct, as for certain diagnostics, the light will NOT set on the first failure. However, there are ones that will, regardless of a glitch or programming error.
Any DTC related to the knock sensor must set a check engine light on the DIC per OBD2 diagnostics. This is required by law.
Being a type A diagnostic trouble code, the light will light.
There are other codes, type B, C, and X. These, as Todd has stated, will NOT set the light on the first failure. These type of codes, B and C, will set the light after the 2nd failure.
However, for knock sensor diagnostics, the light will set on the first failure.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[Vette Virgin]

12345515 and 44k

Did you say you can, in this scenario, use the 12345515 in one tank and follow up with 44k in the next tank?

I haven't gone through an entire tank with the 12345515 but it does still ping but not as bad as before. Would you recommend the 44k in the following fill up?

 

[c4c5specialist]

Re: 12345515 and 44k

Did you say you can, in this scenario, use the 12345515 in one tank and follow up with 44k in the next tank?

I haven't gone through an entire tank with the 12345515 but it does still ping but not as bad as before. Would you recommend the 44k in the following fill up?

Yes, and as a sidebar, please remember, it is most effective if the entire tank is used, and then refilled with the 44k.
Please keep us posted, as the more fuel/44k ran through the engine, the more effective it is.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[Vette Virgin]

Diagnostic code P1416H AIR System Bank 2

Could this code have anything to do with my aftermarket air intake that I bought from Halltech? Pinging?

Just curious.

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi there,
The 1416 is a pretty common occurance. This is due to air injection check valves that rust shut.
It is for the passenger side, and the intake manifold has to be removed to change this.
It has nothing to do with the air intake.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[EHS]

Here are my .04 cents on the subject

And, for full disclosure, I must state that I am a current customer of c4c5specialist, and that he has also completely, totally, and fully, like it's gone, cured my pinging problem under acceleration on my 35,000 mile 2000 C5 convertible.

I had cold start knock and pinging from almost day one on the car, certainly from at least 12,000 miles on the odometer.

A combination of flashing the PCM with updated calibrations (don't know if these are relavent to the 2001 -- I assume it comes with them), and the various additives recommended by c4c5specialist, totally cured any cold start knock, and pinging -- summer or winter, hot or cold.

So, I for one, don't believe that "some pinging or knock" is normal. I was told the same thing, by another Chevy service manager and others, and was ready to believe it, but now don't need to anymore.

Here's what my intake and valves look like at 35,000 miles:

BTW -- the intake was off for the infamous P1416 DIC code.

 

[bowtiebandit]

There is a TSB, #02-06-04-023A, that may help in some cases of pinging. Involves replacing the rear knock sensor and sealing the forward edge of the hole in the valley cover with rtv. Haven't done it to a c5 yet but it works really well on the trucks.

 

[Vette Virgin]

Calibration History for :TRANSMISSION DIAGNOSTIC CALIBRATION

"09358657 00002D5F N/A new calibration to reduce spark knock. replaces calibration 09357736 and 09358650 for 2001 vehicles. "

I received this information from an appreciated Vetteforum member. Could this be related to my Pinging problems? Please advise.

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi there,
This should have been the first course of action taken by your dealership.
However, you dont really know if the updated calibration is in the engine control module.
So, with that, they should be able to check on this, with a Tech 2.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[Vette Virgin]

It is STILL pinging!!

After a bottle of GM 12345515 and a bottle of BG44k, it still wants to ping not only in WOT, but when it lugs right before downshifting. It will ping more when warm then not.

Before resorting to going back to Chevy, I would like some sage advice to tell them and demand from them. I look forward to your response.

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,
You must have some heavy carbon deposits in your engine, to still create this condition.
Well, I would say that a full decarbonizing of the engine is in order.
This will entail using 1050002 and adding this additive to each cylinder. It will then sit overnight, and be flushed out, and the vehicle run to burn up the excess carbon.
They should also check your fuel trim tables, to see if your running excessively lean, however, if you were that lean a check engine light should have set.
Just as a sidebar, make sure your Halltec is nice and tight to the MAF sensor.
Please keep us posted, c4c5