2004 collector's: nothing big

[Rob]

I think there's been some very interesting observations and points made in this thread.

In my own humble opinion, I think the 50th Anniversary Corvette is one of the most beautiful Corvettes out there. However, with that said, I will not deny the fact that I was extremely disappointed that not more was done to produce a truly special Corvette worthy of celebrating 50 golden years of production - above and beyond the 50th Anniversary Red paint, shale interior and gold tinted wheels.

From my own limited experience, I have found that there are two basic groups at GM involved with Corvette: the engineers and designers who live, eat and sleep Corvette and the other group of employees responsible for turning in positive sales numbers and producing trend charts depicting positive growth for the corporation. Both are like two opposing weather fronts and at the head of both fronts, a lot of turmoil can be found. On the one side, you have the folks that don't want to invest more than 5 cents on a particular part to see the quality and reliability increase, and on the other side, you have the folks that have the desire and capability of engineering a Corvette that could be the next McLaren F1 in quality and performance, but because of the level of power and control by one group, the other group is restricted in what it can and can't engineer into the car.

Some people call them bean counters I guess. In my opinion, they are the ones that lack soul, heart and imagination. Not the engineers who design and develop the car. The bean counters don't care about satisfying the pitiful requests and trifle whinings of enthusiasts. As long as Joe Blow walks through a dealership and buys a new Corvette so that he can be seen driving the "latest and greatest", that's all they care about.

To them, the Corvette is not a car. It is a "unit". "Zora Arkus-Duntov?" "Who's that?" "A 1968 L88?" "What's that?" Ask a bean counter those questions and chances are, those are the responses you'll get. Ask a Corvette engineer those questions, and you stand a pretty good chance of getting a fairly accurate answer.

All I can say is, Porsche is getting ready to celebrate 50 years of production as well. I'm curious to see what kind of models they are going to build in order to commemorate the event.

 

[LongTimer]

Good post Rob.

Pretty much confirms my thoughts.

Though definately NOT a Porsche fan, I would expect that organiztion to do a much better job of commemorating their 50th, but it won't be cheap to the consumer. H**l, I would expect any other sports car that celebrates it's 50th will do a more complete job of offering some special performance.

 

[invinceablevett]

good post ROB.I would love a corvette to as ,or more,performant than an exotic BUT I wouldn't want to give up RELIABILITY.I have owned a 92 since 94,and so far the only expenses incurred were mods that I wanted to do.An alternater died but was replaced by the warranty and I changed a front position light.....that's it.Routine maintenance was done as was needed and I changed my front pads........TRY to get that kind of reliabilty from an exotic or even a porsche.This is why I want more ponies from the VETTE and no other car.

 

[Rob]

Good post Rob.

Pretty much confirms my thoughts.

Though definately NOT a Porsche fan, I would expect that organiztion to do a much better job of commemorating their 50th, but it won't be cheap to the consumer. H**l, I would expect any other sports car that celebrates it's 50th will do a more complete job of offering some special performance.

I've never really been a Porshe fan myself, however, I have always respected them for their performance capability and rich racing history. Also, recently, a few of their high performance models have been catching my eye in terms of design. The new V10 powered Carrera GT is nothing short of amazing. That is one beautiful supercar in terms of both design and technological engineering.

 

[Rob]

Last year, there was a rumor floating around that GM was possibly considering the production of a limited edition $100,000 super Corvette. I was all for it.

What are the chances of me owning a $100,000 sports car - at this current time and for the forseeable future - NIL. However, that doesn't mean that other people can't and such a beast would not only be profitable for the corporation, but it would be a major boost to platform image and would give GM the ability to TRULY showcase what it's capable of producing by using advanced materials and technology that is expensive to mainstream customers, but not out of the reach of everyone.

Hell, if Ford can bring a $100,000 GT to market, Lamborghini can bring both a $265,000 Murcielago and a $100,000 Gallardo to market, and Ferrari can bring the Enzo to market at $350,000 and sell every single one of them, GM can surely produce a limited edition, $100,000 super Corvette to take on all of them and still have a list of people waiting in line for one.

 

[Edmond]

I think a $100,000 Corvette, even though it would be a "supercar", would alienate a lot of Corvette people. Isn't one of the unspoken mission statements for the Corvette that it's affordable? I'm not saying that no one on the forum can afford a $100,000 car; I'm just asking why would you spend that money on a car...

The Corvette is supposed to be a car that working class, blue collar people can afford. Building a $100,000 model, even though it'd be a limited edition, would prompt feelings that GM "sold out." With the less than spectacular response from the 50th anniversary model, GM should be much more careful in handling Corvette affairs.

As for the bean counters, my buddy who sells Chevy's even told me that Corvette's aren't the bread and butter. He makes the great majority of his money selling trucks and small cars, not Corvette's. If Corvette can make just a tiny profit, there are plenty of GM cars out there to more than make up for the "lost" profit from keeping Corvette's reasonably affordable.

 

[Rob]

I think a $100,000 Corvette, even though it would be a "supercar", would alienate a lot of Corvette people. Isn't one of the unspoken mission statements for the Corvette that it's affordable? I'm not saying that no one on the forum can afford a $100,000 car; I'm just asking why would you spend that money on a car...

The Corvette is supposed to be a car that working class, blue collar people can afford. Building a $100,000 model, even though it'd be a limited edition, would prompt feelings that GM "sold out." With the less than spectacular response from the 50th anniversary model, GM should be much more careful in handling Corvette affairs.

I'm not sure I agree. Again, take a look at Porsche. Porsche owners/enthusiasts are just as passionate about the marque as Corvette owners and enthusiasts are for the Corvette marque.

I think that if they can produce a $100,000 super Corvette and still offer an excellent performance base model for those who could not afford the high priced supercar, they wouldn't be alienating anyone within the Corvette community. Especially if the technology and engineering of the supercar gradually trickled down into the base model.

 

[Edmond]

I'm not sure I agree. Again, take a look at Porsche. Porsche owners/enthusiasts are just as passionate about the marque as Corvette owners and enthusiasts are for the Corvette marque.

I think that if they can produce a $100,000 super Corvette and still offer an excellent performance base model for those who could not afford the high priced supercar, they wouldn't be alienating anyone within the Corvette community. Especially if the technology and engineering of the supercar gradually trickled down into the base model.

Rob,

I think we got crossed up here because I thought of Porsche as the brand name in general and Corvette as the specific model. Yeah, Porsche people are definitely passionate about their vehicles, and they should be cause those things are works of art: great European refinement.

But I was just saying that if they had a base Cabriolet for whatever it goes for, then they come out with a Cabriolet that costs twice as much with much more to offer, I think those base Cabriolet owners would feel kinda shunned.

GM is kinda in a difficult situation because Corvette has always been the king on their side. They can't put too much into the Corvette because it could make it too expensive for the target market. Yet, they can't build another car that'll perform better than the Corvette because of the 50 years of heritage and history.

 

[Rob]

Ah ok. Sorry, I understand what you're saying now.

 

[TomOB]

The fear of the death of the Vette seems to be moving about these forums.
Rob, as a corvette and sport car enthusiast I can see your disdain for 'bean counters' has it's justification. At the same time, please acknowledge your bias. I believe that a successful corvette hinges on the delicate balance bwteen the very enthusiastic designers who want to give every italian, german, british company (oh, and that car dodge makes) the run for their money, and the bean counters who want to make the money.
If you've ever seen the episode of the simpsons where homer designs the car that meets every demand he asks of it but ruins the company, you know what I mean.
I am very dissapointed in colors and badges signifying the 50th and now CE vettes. If the AE had been a real champ, it would be something to remember. I see the rear brake vents on a Z06 and think "ooh 405hp!" and all other associated goodies. I see a 50th with it's wine color and maybe a badge and i dont think much, not even magnetic ride.
However, the only way GM will make the special editions more than colors is if not enough people like them. If people weren't willing to pay the extra cash, then we'd see changes.

I think something new and exciting needs to come along, and I hope it's the c6. At the NY auto show in april I noticed much less fanfare around the corvettes even in a packed convention center. I waited about 1 minute to sit in one and make believe i had 50 grand, whereas two years ago the 15minute wait discouraged me all together.

 

[invinceablevett]

good post tomob...........I think the c6 will be a more refined and faster version of the c5.This would be good enough for me BUT if I were GM I would have planned for the 50th anniversary edition.For 2005 they could have changed a few minor details and still sold more.Up here dealers are talking about the 2004 models when they still have 50ths sitting in their showrooms.That is not the way to celebrate a 50th anniversary.When I see a 50th now I think to myself nice car but the extra being paid makes me feel that GM missed out on a good chance to sell a whole bunch of them at higher prices if they would have added some power and a few refinements.Some buyers would have drove them around town ,some would have raced them and others would have kept them as collector's editions.I would have bought one but didn't feel comfortable shelling out the extra dough for the badging,as for the magnetic ride,I don't think the average driver gets the whole effect because of the conditions of our roads! GM made the same mistake with the 40th anniversary edition.When I purchased my 92 back in 94 I had the choice between my blackrose convertible and a 93 40th anniversary hardtop.I chose mine of caurse BUT if the 40th had a little more power with suttle changes I would have paid more and got the 40th.I believe an anniversary edition should have been celebrated with more "king of the hill" boasting.......I'm just dying for more spy shots of the 2005.

 

[LongTimer]

I think a $100,000 Corvette, even though it would be a "supercar", would alienate a lot of Corvette people. Isn't one of the unspoken mission statements for the Corvette that it's affordable? I'm not saying that no one on the forum can afford a $100,000 car; I'm just asking why would you spend that money on a car....

Why do you root for your local sports team? Are you ever going to get the chance to play on it? Do you get a share of the increased profit if the team is successful? The answer: Bragging rights (community pride, if you like). If GM built a $100-150k Corvette that established new levels of sohistication and set records that the Europeans envied, the Corvette community would automatically attain the bragging rights. If all this Super Vette (how about the Dontov) did was continually show the Ford GT its tail lights, we get bragging rights. Like Rob, unless I win the lottery - maybe even if I did - I will not be buying this "elite" Corvette. But, I would own the bragging rights due to my ownership of ANY Corvette, IMO.

My assumption here is that Corvette would continue to produce the more "mainstream" (approx 50k) Corvette.

However, I want to meet the marketing Guru who figures out how to peddle a $100k+ car that will be serviced along side of Cavaliers and Metros. I guess if you can aford the car, you have your own mechanic anyway. And, the Ford GT will be serviced next to Foci and escorts, so maybe it can be done.

 

[TomOB]

First, "foci" gave a nice smile on the third week of rainy days.

Maybe they could develop a special relationship with the regional corvette 'powerhouses' --- the very large dealerships that seem to sell only vettes. These guys are well versed in the corvette and how to sell it and im sure they know how to cater to a customer better than the guy who will sell a used caprice when you're done.

The people who would buy one of these supercars are probably willing to travel a bit to have their car serviced (or send someone to have it serviced). I don't know how it works with say a Ferrari, but a)there isn't one on every street b)i can't imagine owning a 350,000 dollar car and having to wake up early in the morning for my service to wait in line. You cannot sell a car for that amount of money and expect to be able to treat your customers the same.

I don't know if a limited or even sustained production of supercars would hurt corvette at all. It would set the bar for high performance and we could hope that the stuff will trickle down to the normal vette buyers---as will the image. Viper doesn't have as rich a history by any means but do the 250,000 models hurt the normal priced one?

 

[Piet]

All I can say is, Porsche is getting ready to celebrate 50 years of production as well. I'm curious to see what kind of models they are going to build in order to commemorate the event.

The 2004 look pretty nice

 

[LongTimer]

The 2004 look pretty nice

That's not just a 2004, that's the very high $$ mid engineed V10 GT that Rob was talking about. It IS a nice looking car and it should be since it cost more than most of our houses.

 

[Rick Daniel]

Please allow my input to this thread

Anyone that thinks Corvette is in trouble is IMHO not up on the facts. Corvettes are the bread and butter to our dealership. Without them we would be just another dealer tying to survive on selling trucks for invoice. I am in the middle of so much excitement every day from selling Corvettes that I can assure you that this car will be around for another 50 years. People come from all over the country just to get a chance to own one of these WORLD CLASS SPORTS CARS. You are right about the Corvette being a blue collar sports cars. With the Corvette most of the money is put into the performance and handling of the car with the fit and finish and int. second on the totem pole. I do think that with the C6 that will be changed to some extent. Believe me when I tell you Corvette sales are very strong and will remain that way long after we are gone. This true American Sports Car will live on.

 

[LongTimer]

Re: Please allow my input to this thread

I can assure you that this car will be around for another 50 years.

In this day and age, it's really great to be made to think that far ahead and visualize the Hydrogen cell powered, anti-grav, select-a-color bodied, warp-capable C14 my Corvette loving (better be!!) great grandson will be driving.

 

[TomOB]

Rick,
How do you feel about the supercar route? I suggested it be sold through major regional dealerships that do heavy vette volume. I am unfamiliar with your business so I dont know where you fall but I assume because of your postings that you do alot of volume.
Do most customers come back to you for their service or do it at their local dealership?
It's really wierd that the corvette is sold next to other chevy's. Blue collar or not (which i don't know is a good thing. If we want to be bad and say blue collar means physical grunt without the finesse and refinement, Why not just buy one of those v8 motorcycles. )

 

[SlowRide]

Re: Please allow my input to this thread

Anyone that thinks Corvette is in trouble is IMHO not up on the facts. Corvettes are the bread and butter to our dealership. Without them we would be just another dealer tying to survive on selling trucks for invoice. I am in the middle of so much excitement every day from selling Corvettes that I can assure you that this car will be around for another 50 years. People come from all over the country just to get a chance to own one of these WORLD CLASS SPORTS CARS. You are right about the Corvette being a blue collar sports cars. With the Corvette most of the money is put into the performance and handling of the car with the fit and finish and int. second on the totem pole. I do think that with the C6 that will be changed to some extent. Believe me when I tell you Corvette sales are very strong and will remain that way long after we are gone. This true American Sports Car will live on.

I couldn't agree with you more Rick.

 

[LongTimer]

Rick,

So is it true you're offering a 40% discount on the C6 to all forum members?

:Twist