383 or 350?

[Achilles]

Yes you can run a roller but like I already pointed out to you that guy don't know what he is talking about and once again proved it with that statement.

Ok you made your point. I'm going to get a second opinion on Monday. I know another mechanic in town that used to build race engines. I'll call him to see what he thinks.

Thanks Black Bart

 

[grumpyvette]

retrofit hydrolic roller cams ,with the correct roller lifters to fit the earlier style blocks are comon and both CRANE CAMS AND CROWER CAMS make some excellent choices in the type of cam your looking for.
you CAN,T run the stock G.M. roller lifters in the early blocks without extensive and less than relieable mods because the lifters require a taller lifter bore and a retention spider, but you can run retrofit hydrolic roller lifter that link in pairs (youll need shorter pushrods) in the early blocks.

something like this would work (BUT BEFORE BUYING ANY CAM HAVE A LONG TALK WITH THE MANUFACTURER, about the required MATCHING components like the stall speed, rear gearing ETC.) correctly matching the components is mandatory for good results

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=8&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=1988&Engine_Size=267-350%20C.I.&partNumber=104224&partType=camshaft

 

[Black Bart]

Comp cams also makes them. I'm running one of them in my 406

 

[Achilles]

retrofit hydrolic roller cams ,with the correct roller lifters to fit the earlier style blocks are comon and both CRANE CAMS AND CROWER CAMS make some excellent choices in the type of cam your looking for.
you CAN,T run the stock G.M. roller lifters in the early blocks without extensive and less than relieable mods because the lifters require a taller lifter bore and a retention spider, but you can run retrofit hydrolic roller lifter that link in pairs (youll need shorter pushrods) in the early blocks.

something like this would work (BUT BEFORE BUYING ANY CAM HAVE A LONG TALK WITH THE MANUFACTURER, about the required MATCHING components like the stall speed, rear gearing ETC.) correctly matching the components is mandatory for good results

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=8&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=1988&Engine_Size=267-350%20C.I.&partNumber=104224&partType=camshaft

Thanks Grumpy for the link. I will contact them to discuss my options. If it looks like a big PITA to change over to roller, I may just stick to the hydrolic tappet. Although, I found out that I can buy an new 87 bare block fitted for the roller lifters for $225. Don't know how good of a block it is though.

 

[grumpyvette]

http://www.idavette.net/hib/camcon.htm

you may want to read thru this

 

[Achilles]

Thanks Grumpy for that tid-bit of info. Very interesting data.

Some of those shops that Hib refered to are not too far from me either.

....Worth checking into. Thanks again, you've been a great help!

 

[Edmond]

Don't the D port 113 heads flow a little bit better than the previous L98 heads? If so, you could search for a slightly used set of D ports. I got mine for $400 and they have less than 5,000 miles on them.

 

[Achilles]

That may have to wait for a later project.

 

[Edmond]

Can the ZZ383 be used on a fuel injection engine? From what I've read, I'm getting the impression that it's a motor made for a carb.

And what would a 383 do to the TPI's powerband? Peak torque was around 3200 RPM while peak HP was around 5000. The 383 would drop the peak power RPM's down, right?

 

[delnic]

I put a ZZ383 in my 85, Lingenfelter Super Ram, AFR 190 competition heads, Lingenfelter 219/219 cam, Accel Gen 7 computer, Lingenfelter 1 3/4 headers, 10:8:1 compression ratio, and just about everything else that you can think of. It is not on the bottle or supercharged. All I have to say is that if you ride in a well built 383, your mind would be made up immediately that you want a 383. A friend of mine has an 06 Porsche 911 Carerra S4, which has an aftermarket exhaust system, computer chip, and air induction. It is suppose to run the quarter at about 112 MPH in standard trim. I rode in his Porsche and he rode in my Vette. His comment after riding in my Vette was. "I will get you from the ground because of your traction problem, but after that you will come right pass me." 383s are really fun. Go for a 383.

 

[sothpaw]

Ok you made your point. I'm going to get a second opinion on Monday. I know another mechanic in town that used to build race engines. I'll call him to see what he thinks.

Thanks Black Bart

Words of caution for you I have not read in this thread--having just been through the 383 vs 355 thing myself on my LT1.

#1 A 383 is a CUSTOM design. You need an expert who has done many 383's just like you want built (same specs) to do it for you. All the machine shops here with 383 LT1 experience wanted alot more $$$ to do the same machine work as the non-specialty shops that would just do a 355 with new pistons and my rods. For that matter, you might not even need new pistons, I would tear it down and measure the bores yourself first. Do not trust the shop to tell you--he wants the work. If you have a mechanic you trust, he can tell you.

#2 383 will cost a lot more than I it sounds like you have budgeted, you rejected the $3800 engine out of hand. You will need new injectors, tune, lifters, cam and heads, headers, intake to take advantage, as others said. Consider a better clutch will be needed and possibly fuel pump and wider, better tires. If you keep the stock heads & intake on a budget as mentioned, I don't know if the tuners will know what to do as that's a rare combo but I'm also not sure if you will be much better than the 355. Certainly 355 with heads/cam/intake would wip a 383 with L98 intake and heads cam & exhaust.

#3 Your engine installer/mechanic should also be familar with 383's for L98's or he will give you the wrong advice. The carb thing is a bad omen.

#4 Since you're going to dump a lot of money (I'd estimate $5 k minimum for just 383 machine work and in the car, no heads, intake, headers, etc etc) make sure you have it properly INSURED. There is track insurance for HPDE's. It would be a shame to do a 383 and then wreck the car on track and a regular ins. co. will give you nothing for any of it. 80 mi After I did my 355 an SUV pulled out right in front of me trying to make a left across 5 lanes of traffic with limited visbility, and when I tried to get out of her way, she hit me--totalled car, end of story, really glad I did not dump more into a 383.

 

[Achilles]

Yeah, I think we're on the same page Sothpaw.

The cost for the 383 option was just getting too far out of hand. Also, we use this car for HPDE's and Auto-X and we were accustomed to the old power it had that I began to think that the power from a 383 may take alot to get used to. Since we have a 95 w/ the LT1 my wife and I are both familiar with the power it delivers and feel that the "built-up" 355 in the L89 will be similar, still with alot of low end grunt.

I learned one thing about racing- It's better to develope good driving skills with a slower car than poor driving skills with a fast one.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Edmond]

Did I tell you guys that I'm planning on a ZZ383 this summer? Roughly $4700 for the motor but I'll need to put the TPI intake on there. I'm definitely going with something bigger than the stock TPI intake but I haven't thought about which system I'm going with.

I ended up selling the 113 heads I had off a ZZ4 crate motor and I'm selling the 22 lb. injectors I recently bought. I'm just going to save my pennies and do it right the first time.

I came to this conclusion because I knew that if I just "settled" right now, I would never be happy and that I would wind up spending the money down the line to do what I wanted to do in the first place. And I knew that I would've basically wasted the money building anything that I didn't want, ie. anything but a 383.

My thoughts were by the time I bought the parts and paid for machining, the price difference wouldn't have been that great from a ZZ383. And reading the specs from the ZZ383, the parts on there aren't shabby parts. The motor produces 425/460 but that's with a carb setup. I have no idea what the FI setup will do to it but I'm betting I won't be disappointed with the results.

 

[Achilles]

Edmond, that motor will be nasty! I'm too impatient to save money for stuff. I ordered my parts yesterday from Summit and should be getting them this week. I'm getting a complete Crane Cams assembly. As recommended by Crane Cams Tech Dept. for my set-up - Cam #114132: 210/216 @ .050 w/ .440/.454 lift. Crane claims at the very least I'll need a new chip, but this cam will work with my computer.

Pistons are hypereutectic 10.5:1 w/ the Trick Flow heads, Part # 30300005. I decided to go with the Trick Flows because they are based on the GM castings and the Edelbrocks use their own casting. Summit told me that Edelbrocks from time to time have problems with header clearances around the spark plugs. So to save myself added frustration, I went with the Trick Flow pieces.

Melling High volume Oil Pump and dbl. roller timing sets. Accel intake base w/ high flow runners is comming. For now I'm keeping the stock TB and my 22# Five-O injectors I just put in. I'll see how they work.

When its all done it will probably cost the same as a crate, but it's exciting to know its getting done now.

Good luck with your project!

 

[Edmond]

Jerk, :L

That is a high compression ratio! What would you have to run in that? I believe the ZZ383 runs at a 9.5 or a 9.7 CR.

One thing I was always checking for are the classifieds in all the Corvette online forums. You can really find some great deals if you're always on there and looking. Thing about that is the great deals got taken up real fast.

Now that I know what I'm doing with my motor, the gears and transmission will have to be next. My 102K mile 700R4 won't last long with that 383 in there. I also wouldn't mind getting some larger meat in the back up from the 275's right now.

I also only have 2.59's in there and wouldn't mind going with something lower. I currently have a 3.45 ring and pinion out of an LT4 sitting in my garage but I don't know if that's the way I'll end up going or if I'll go with a low mileage 3.07. I figure that with the 383 in there, the TPI powerband will be lowered more than it already is for the 350.

The only bad news is that I probably won't have enough funds for the motor until the summer time. But I can wait, I have plenty of patience. Actually, I said to myself that if I hadn't bought one of my Martins and all these guns, I would've already had a ZZ383 with a Big Mouth intake, large tube runners and headers! :L:L:L Guitars and guns were my addiction. I'm done buying guitars but I can't say the same about guns. I've been addicted to H&K's lately.

 

[Achilles]

Jerk, :L

That is a high compression ratio! What would you have to run in that? I believe the ZZ383 runs at a 9.5 or a 9.7 CR.

I think I'll barely get by with premium or may have to add an octane booster. Everyone I've talked to says not to go over 10.5:1. Actually, I'll be closer to 10.4:1, I think.

One thing I was always checking for are the classifieds in all the Corvette online forums. You can really find some great deals if you're always on there and looking. Thing about that is the great deals got taken up real fast.

Oh well, win some, lose some right?

I figure this motor will get me by for awhile untill I'm ready for a Z06. Which I would love to have now, but my garage is full and my wallet is empty.

 

[Edmond]

I figure this motor will get me by for awhile untill I'm ready for a Z06. Which I would love to have now, but my garage is full and my wallet is empty.

Why not start emptying the garage to fill up that wallet? :L

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

A word of warning. Do not drive a properly setup 383 unless you are ready to buy one.

I have had or built 4 383s including 2 that went into the record books. It is the long stroke that does it. With out going to a BB you just can’t build that much torque with that wide of a RPM range any other way.

Thunder’s 450+ torque eats my ZR-1 between the lights and develops more torque at 1800 RPMs that a well tuned LT1 produces at peak RPM. Add to that the almost flat curve from 2000 RPMs to redline and you have one sweet daily driver with the ability to eat 95% of everything else on the road.

Yeah, I like turbochargers, superchargers, lots of overhead cams, etc., etc. as much as the next guy but when it comes to getting down the road and doing it reliably without constant broken parts there is nothing that will compare with a 383 SBC.

If you are careful you should be able to build a good one for under $5000. Stay with a ported TPI, bigmouth base and matching runners, bore the TB out to 52 MM and you will come in at about 400HP and thanks to the flow restrictions of the TBI the beast will run out of air just over 5000 RPMs which will make it bullet proof while you learn how to live with it.

Romping around in a 383 Vette is like swatting flies with Mike Tyson, he is just never going to get tired doing it.

 

[Edmond]

Master Yoda,

I will use The Force wisely.

ZZ383 sells for $4800. It comes with a healthy cam with lifts of .509 and .529. And that is with 1.5 roller rockers. I could spend a couple hundred extra and put a set of 1.6 roller rockers in there for even more power.

But the $4800 doesn't include the intake and I'll need 24 lb. injectors.

 

[Achilles]

Why not start emptying the garage to fill up that wallet? :L

That would mean I would have to sell a Corvette!:cry