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Help! 93 corvette no start no crank issue

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cowansauto

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Joined
Oct 21, 2012
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10
Location
Kentucky
Corvette
1993 Coupe
I have a 1993 Corvette that I bought wrecked in the front end. I have been trying to get it running since I got it. When you turn the key to crank the engine I get a no crank issue from the starter. If you jump the starter solenoid at the relay to a ground, the starter will engage when the key is in the run position.

The CCM in the car was bad when I bought it (no lcd info, couldn't check the codes on this display) and I borrowed another CCM from a friend out of a 1993 covertible. Got it installed (after taking half of the interior apart) and now I have my digital cluster info back and am able to check the diagnostic codes on the dash. I can go into the full diagnostic modes as it is supposed to check all of the modules. It shows ALL GOOD (C12) and then some history codes.

Here's the codes that come up:
C12, --- (1.) Screen
H41, --- (4.) Screen
H64, H72, H73, --- (9.) Screen

Of course I just plugged the other CCM and didnt have the mileage or any other programming changed to match my original car.

VIDEO OF ISSUE: http://youtu.be/aIvBqnYW4d0
 
I think the 64 is O2 sensor out of normal range. Could only be a bad tune - change it LAST, if it still lights after repairs.

No LCD with the original could only be poor grounds of the CCM module - don't toss it.

Next thing is to jump the leads in the ignition switch. No crank could be a tranny or clutch ignition lockout. Is this a stick, or auto?

Welcome onto the boards. Good job with photo vid doc'ed work. LOTS of pics help EVERYTHING.
 
I think the 64 is O2 sensor out of normal range. Could only be a bad tune - change it LAST, if it still lights after repairs.

No LCD with the original could only be poor grounds of the CCM module - don't toss it.

Next thing is to jump the leads in the ignition switch. No crank could be a tranny or clutch ignition lockout. Is this a stick, or auto?

Welcome onto the boards. Good job with photo vid doc'ed work. LOTS of pics help EVERYTHING.

It is an automatic car. I tried jumping the two wires on the Transmission position connector and it wouldnt crank like one of the test sequences recomended.

When is the security light supposed to flash on the dash?
 
I have a 1993 Corvette that I bought wrecked in the front end. I have been trying to get it running since I got it. When you turn the key to crank the engine I get a no crank issue from the starter. If you jump the starter solenoid at the relay to a ground, the starter will engage when the key is in the run position.

The CCM in the car was bad when I bought it (no lcd info, couldn't check the codes on this display) and I borrowed another CCM from a friend out of a 1993 covertible. Got it installed (after taking half of the interior apart) and now I have my digital cluster info back and am able to check the diagnostic codes on the dash. I can go into the full diagnostic modes as it is supposed to check all of the modules. It shows ALL GOOD (C12) and then some history codes.

Here's the codes that come up:
C12, --- (1.) Screen
H41, --- (4.) Screen Ignition Control Circuit (Open or Shorted circuit)

H64,Bank 2 Oxygen sensor (Lean exhaust indicated) H72,Gear selector switch circuit H73, --- (9.) Screen

Of course I just plugged the other CCM and didnt have the mileage or any other programming changed to match my original car.

VIDEO OF ISSUE: http://youtu.be/aIvBqnYW4d0
That is what the codes are for per my 93 FSM. I don't have anything listed for a code 73. I generally start with the lowest code first and that would indicate to me you have a ground problem. If you are really going to be able to straighten this car out you need to get a Field Service Manual Volumes 1 and 2. Then you will be able to carefully follow all the diagnostic steps for each problem. I would caution you not to jump to replaceing parts. Remember that a code only tells you something is wrong in that circuit which can be anything from a missing ground or a broken wire or a bad connector. Codes are only road maps to be followed from the beginning of there information path to the end of the journey ( the sensor in question) It took me a long time to understand the importance of the grounds. The ECM does not read the input to a sensor but it takes it's information from the ground wire values and you will find several sensors are run to a common ground bundle in the wiring harness.
 
Don't forget there is a safety switch that only lets you start the car in park or neutral. If that switch is not adjusted correctly it acts like a dead man switch. It won't let you start the car because it does not know what gear it is in. And if that switch is open it acts like a broken ground. And as such it may be the common ground for the IC code 41
 
I havent decided what to do with it yet but I really want to get the engine running before I part it out. I bought the car from an insurance salvage pool with a Bill of Sale/Junk Title. After getting it home, I just hate to strip it now since it is in excelllent shape!

If its H codes, doesnt this mean a history code, as in no longer a problem?
 
Don't forget there is a safety switch that only lets you start the car in park or neutral. If that switch is not adjusted correctly it acts like a dead man switch. It won't let you start the car because it does not know what gear it is in. And if that switch is open it acts like a broken ground. And as such it may be the common ground for the IC code 41

Isnt that the neutral safety swtich mounted to the shifter assembly?
 
Code 410001.jpgCode 410002.jpg
Maybe this will give you a starting point on the IC circuit diagnosis
 
I havent decided what to do with it yet but I really want to get the engine running before I part it out. I bought the car from an insurance salvage pool with a Bill of Sale/Junk Title. After getting it home, I just hate to strip it now since it is in excelllent shape!

If its H codes, doesnt this mean a history code, as in no longer a problem?

Yes it is a history code but I think the ECM puts it in history and then trys to work around it. If the ECM keeps getting the code it just does not repeat it since it is in history. Like a computer once you create a file it does not recreate it everytime it is accessed.
 
Maybe this will give you a starting point on the IC circuit diagnosis

Thanks for the attachments. By looking at the steps, it seems necessary to get the engine cranking first though. The only way the engine will crank is by jumping the relay or the starter posts.


If you wouldnt mind, could you attach the steps for a No Start issue from your 93 service manual?
Here is what I have from All Data DIY (sometimes helpful, sometimes not)!
 

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I can't find the chart you asked for but I found this in my archived Corvette file maybe it will help

Mainstreamtopics - Your General Forum : Lt1 No Start Diagnostic - Mainstreamtopics - Your General Forum


Posted 26 January 2004 - 07:18 PM

This article will help to diagnose and repair an LT1 No start condition.


Specialty tools you will need...
12Volt Test light
Digital Volt Meter (DVM)
Noid Light (auto zone Part number OEM 25143)
Fuel Pressure Gauge with GM fuel rail fitting
A friend to help you out

If possible It's a good idea to Get the Car scanned for Diagnostic Trouble Codes to help pinpoint an easy problem.


Before we begin lets have a quick overview on the use of a test light. A test light is a very simple and easy to use diagnostic tool. You can pick one up at any parts store or tool store. The test light consists of 4 basic parts; a clear body, a light bulb inside the body, a sharp metal probe on one end of the body, and a wire with a clip on the other end. When you are trying to find Positive voltage place the clip on a good ground source (usually the Negative battery terminal) however any motor or chassis ground will work. When you are looking for a ground signal you must place the clip on a positive feed (usually the positive battery terminal) but the alternator wire and starter wire are other choices. That’s all there is to it.


We also need to get the theory of Back probing out of the way. The idea behind back probing is to probe the actual wire itself as near to the component that your testing. Using a test light or multi meter you will have to pierce through the wire to get a reading. The reason for back probing is to test the system with the component plugged in and active.




First thing we will do is check for Fuel.


Install the fuel pressure gauge onto the shreader valve on the fuel rail. a picture can be found herehttp://shbox.com/1/f...rader_valve.jpg
Once you have the gauge installed turn the key on but leave the engine off. this is the first key position BEFORE start and is referred to as KOEO (Key On Engine Off)

With KOEO the fuel pressure should immediately go to 43.5psi +/- 2 PSI

The next important thing to do is watch the gauge. The pressure should hold right about there. Any bleed off could cause no start, hard start or bad performance.

If the pressure drops slowly you could have a leak in a line or fitting or possibly a faulty fuel pressure regulator. Usually if you pull off the vacuum line to the regulator it will be wet if it is faulty.

Another cause of slow bleed down is a stuck or shorted injector. this will usually cause a hard start and can be very damaging to the motor since fuel is filling that cylinder when ever there is pressure in the lines.

If the pressure bleeds down fast it is usually due to a faulty fuel pump check valve and the fuel pump will need to be replaced.







Now that we know if you have fuel lets see if you have spark

remove the spark plug wire from the ignition coil. Clip your test light to the negative post of the battery. Hold the test light probe close to the coil where the plug wire attaches to the coil. Have someone crank the car and spark should ark to the test light probe. It should be a strong blue color and arc a gap of around an inch. No we know if you have spark.



No fuel Spark ok Diagnostic.

You have a problem with your fuel system to where either the pump is not working or it's not getting to the fuel rail. With your pressure gauge attached to the rail, take a wire lead from the pos battery post to the fuel pump prim connector. This connector runs directly to the fuel pump and will activate it and let you know if you have wiring problems in the fuel system. A picture of the location of the connector can be found here http://shbox.com/1/fuel_pump_prime.jpg

With battery voltage do you se 43.5psi on the fuel gauge?

If yes, see Fuel System electrical diagnostics.
If no, see Fuel pump testing



Fuel pump testing

The only real good way to make sure the pump is bad is to check for power at the sending unit. The sending unit witch holds the fuel pump is located inside the fuel tank. The other option is to gain access to the electrical harness block at the rear of the car. It is located on the driver’s side sub floor in front of the rear end. Locate the gray wire in the harness block. Unplug the harness and probe the terminal that corresponds to the gray wire. With the prime connector jumped with battery voltage, probe the Grey wire terminal at the harness block. Does the test-light light up?

No, Fix short in wire between the fuel pump relay and pump

yes, check for ground on the black wire.

Does your test-light light up?

No, repair ground wire

Yes, Replace fuel pump




Fuel system electrical diagnostics

First we need to get at the fuel pump relay. Here is a picture of it http://shbox.com/1/fuel_pump_relay.jpg *note 93-95 and 96-97 systems are slightly different*.

With your test light at the relay test for ground on the black/white wire. Do you have a ground?

Yes, continue to next step
no, repair ground wire.

Next with your test light and the key in the Key on engine off (KOEO) position test for hot into the relay at the orange or pink wire depending on year. Do you have hot?

Yes, continue to next step
No, check inner panel and fuse panel fuses and replace any bad fuses and recheck

next check for hot on the Dark Green and white wire while cranking. This is a hot from the PCM to trigger the relay. Do you have hot?

Yes, continue
no, check wire back to PCM. If still not hot directly out of the PCM possible faulty PCM, or PCM power feed problem.

If you have all hot and ground at the relay next check the function of the relay itself. Do this by checking for hot at the gray Wire with your test light with the engine cranking. Do you have hot?

Yes, relay and wiring is working correctly. verify battery voltage with a Multi meter and for a break in the wire between the relay and the pump.
No. Unplug relay. With key on engine off use a fused jumper wire to apply voltage from the pink or orange wire terminal to the gray wire terminal and recheck for hot at the gray wire. if you have hot replace the relay and recheck gray wire with the relay plugged in





No Spark Fuel ok Diagnostics


The first thing we will do is verify the optical sensor is working correctly. And here is how..

Unhook 1 fuel injector connector. With your test light check for pulsing ground on the NON PINK wire while cranking the engine (different years use different color wires but all year have pink wires for the positive voltage side of the connectors) The other choice you have is to use the noid light (noid light AZ OEM part number 25143), plug the noid light into the connector and crank the car. The light should flash..

Do you have a flashing ground while cranking?

Yes, the optical sensor is sending the signal and should be ok, continue to test the ignition system.

No, the optical sensor is not working see testing opti section.


Next we will see if the coil and ICM are causing the no spark.
First on the ICM connector with KOEO check for hot (93-95) on the Pink/Black and white/black wires or (96-97) on the Pink and Dark green wires. Do you have hot?

Yes, next step
No, (93-95) Check for hot at the pink wire a the ign coil. If you have power at the coil, but not at the ICM, The coil is shorted and preventing power from reaching the ICM. Replace the coil and retest. If you do not have hot at the coils pink wire, check the 10 amp Ign fuse. Repair as needed and retest.
(96-97) If you are missing hot on both wires at the module, check the 10amp ign fuse, Repair and retest. If you are missing hot only on the dark green wire, but not he pink wire, the coil has shorted and is preventing the voltage from reaching the module and must be replaced.

Next check for ground on the black wire. do you have ground?

Yes, next step
no, repair ground

next test for a pulsing ground at the dark green wire(96-97) or the White/black wire (93-95) at the coil coming from the ICM. Do you have a pulsing ground?

Yes, next step
No Replace the ICM *note, I have seen a bad coil burn up an ICM. It might be a good time to replace or upgrade your coil*


next with your test light check for hot on the Pink wire at the coil. do you have hot?
Yes, Replace your coil *note, High resistance from bad plug wires can burn out coils. You can Ohm test plug wires or replace them if wanted*

No, Check and repair ign fuse and retest




OPTI testing

If you failed the injector pulse test we must make sure that all the power is getting to the opti.

With the test light and the car on KOEO, unplug the opti connector at the optispark and test for hot at the red wire at the opti. do you have hot?

If yes. Next step

if no, the pos feed comes from the computer. Check that the PCM is sending the signal, if not then you might have a faulty PCM



Next, using a multi meter on volts scale, test the red/black and purple/white wires for 5 volts. Do you have 5 Volts?
Yes, next step
No, The 5 volt reference is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem


Next, test the pink/black wire for ground. Do you have ground?
Yes, then the optical sensor is not working and is probably bad. based on the other tests run this is causing your no spark condition. It’s time to replace your opti. You can also check for corrosion or damage to the opti connector and replace as needed.

No, the ground is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem.



No Start, Spark ok Fuel OK diagnostics

If you have fuel pressure and you have spark at the coil there are only a few more reasons the car will not start.

First and most popular is Rotor damage in the opti. to check for this make sure you have spark at the OPTI end of the coil wire. Use your grounded test light to check that. if you have spark at the coil but not through the coil wire replace the wire. if you do have spark going in check for spark coming out of the opti. if you have spark in and none out the rotor was damaged and needs to be replaced.


Something that I have run into that causes a no start is a bad coil wire. Sometimes the opti end of the wire will crack and distort causing a lot of internal arcing and bad contact. If you look into the opti end there should be a plastic insert that keeps the wire centered and making good contact. if it’s cracked or broken replace it.


another no start problem could be no injector pulse. Use a noid light to verify injector pulse. if you have none check for the ground signal from the pcm. and check for the KOEO hot signal on the pink wire. They go back to 2 fuses in the fuse box.


Another point to consider is compression. a cyl will run on about 70 pounds of compression but it will not run well.



I am still amending and correcting this article. please bear with me

Please feel free to view the rest of the site that this article is posted on. anyone is free to join. we have several car forums and welcome new members http://mainstreamtop...dex.php?act=idx


I would like to thank Rob AKA Shoebox for the use of his pictures, you can find more at his siteshbox.com




This article writtcn by Harlan Hynes. All content is protected. The reproduction of this article is expressly forbidden and is only to be used for personal use. If you wish to quote or use a part or all of this article on another site, please email hbhracing@yahoo.com
Copyright protected.
 
I still think you have a ground problem since you can get it to crank when you use your jumpers. I can not stress enough the importance of cleaning all the grounds. If I had a dollar for all the hours I spent on my car chasing problems until I finally cleaned all the grounds I could have a new C7 when they are introduced.

Location of grounds.jpg
 
Pix's of car?

If we had an idea of the damage... it might eliminate some of the variables....
Did 93 still have Vats or was it Keypass?
 
My 93 has vats because my key has the chip in it. I had forgotten about when my vats went bad and it shut down on the highway and would not turn over. That cost me over 600.00 for a dealer to work on it when I got it towed into his shop and it took the tech about 6 hours to find it. The op might try to clean the key slot and if he has a second ignition key try it. Thats what happens when you get your thinking trapped. Glad the question was asked now the op has something else to check out. It appears that there are a number of us who have found out how intricate the wiring is and that the most unlikely things can have a catastrophic effect on something else.
 
I just realized something; the wiring harnesses for the front lights is loose on the frame rails. There are a few frayed wires including a purple wire and at least one large black wire. They aren't touching metal or each other but at least one is purple and I believe one is a large black ground wire.
 
Module 9 is the ABS / ASR codes


Get off my back.

You don't know as much as I do. You can't diagnose as good as I can, and you can't communicate as well.

I think you're a horse's ass.

Get off my back.
 
H72,Gear selector switch circuit

There's a start [pun intended] right there...

Might be an error; might not.
 
H-72 I agree with Schrade

Again, the type of damage would be helpful finding faults...
In my G... When the owner got into an accident ( hit a building head on.. DUHRRRR ) the shifter ( and switch ) were toast...
He used the shifer & wheel as a brace for impact grip....so if the selector switch is broke... no park neutral signal.. no crank, no fire...
and VATS if you have that will prevent a crank....IF you have that ( a pix of the keys would help here )
 
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