A/C install

[BarryK]

Paul (Subfixer) has very gererously offered to take a trip down over the winter to help me install an A/C system in my '65 coupe this winter (realistically, i'll be the one helping him no doubt). The install is a few months away yet but I want to start planning everything so that all is in order and I have everything I need for when he is available - the last thing I want is to have him drive down and than we are missing an important part.
So far these are the questions I have and if there is anything else I'm missing that I should be asking feel free to throw the info out to me.....

1. Besides the A/C system itself, do I need to change out any pulleys on my car. It's an L76 so no PS of course or does the pulley come with the A/C system?

2. Where is the best place to find the bracket to move the alternator to the drivers side.

3. Am I correct that Lectric Limited offers a wiring harness to extend the alternator wiring for the move to the drivers side?

4. Are there any other parts that DON'T come with the A/C system that I need to order in so that we have?

5. I know this question has been beaten to death recently but....... i'm still deciding between the Classic Air A/C system (which is what I believe Paul used and Bob(Stepinwolf) recommends) and the Vintage Air system. I know the Classic Air system is suppose to allow you to mix hot air with the cold air to adjust your output temp on the air but honestly I'm not quite sure how much I need that. If I need the A/C it's because it's a typical HOT and HUMID day so I'd probably want it as cold as possible anyway. The vents in Pauls car were nice but I think the side vents under the corners of the dash look more "stock" from the Vintage Air system. Besides these differences, are there significant differences in the install itself or in the output or quality of the compressors between the systems I need to be aware of?

6. On factory A/C cars the inner fender had a door for battery access since the compressor and hoses blocked normal access. Am I going to have to move the battery over to the drivers side also like the alternator or how am I going to be able to access the battery when needed after the install?

7. Any other issues I'm missing that I need to consider for this project?

Sorry, I know it's a lot that i'm asking but since it's a long trip for Paul I want to make sure I have EVERYTHING covered before he drives down so we don't have too many unexpected surprises when he's here.

thanks to everyone in advance for your help.


PS: when we do the actual install of the system, I'll be sure to take pics of every step and than I'll post it up on my site in the Tech Section so that others doing this afterwards will have something to review and reference

 

[Kid_Again]

This is a very simple installation - from the mechanical perspective. You're doing the right thing by planning ahead. I have the VA kit so that's all I can refer to. I followed their instructions and did not change a thing on the engine. I used the existing two groove crank pulley and existing two groove water pump pulley. You need to sketch out the physical alignment of the existing pulleys to determine your new belt system.

For example, my car is power nothing. I had a single belt that drove the alternator off the front groove So it kissed the crank pulley, up and over the water pump pulley and caught the alternator. The VA Sanden compressor has a TWO groove pulley so I could drive it off of the front or back.

My first attempt was to add a single belt off of the BACK groove to go crank-> water pump-> AC compressor. It was barely acceptable because the new belt got way too close to the lower radiator hose when I moved the compressor to tighten up the belt. Because the compressor swings in an arc, when you pull it, it swings out AND down. My intermediate solution was to trash that belt and go with a shorter belt that only goes water pump-> AC compressor-> back to water pump. I don't like that because I would prefer to have the compressor actually driven off of the crank.

Which gets me to my latest fix which I'll do when VNV comes over to help me switch to RR's. I just bought a 3 groove underdrive crank pulley. The new system will drive the alternator directly off the front crank groove and the back two belts will drive both the water pump and the Sanden. I just think it's much more efficient to drive the AC directly off of the crank pulley.

So, that's my story. Out of the box, I had absolutely no problems with the VA kit (except for the crummy microswitches) and it blew very cold from the first start up.

Stay in touch and if you need some additional help and we're not covered with feet of snow, just lemme know.

You do NOT need to move the battery. It's more difficult to remove the battery with the hoses running right over the top but just leave enough slack to push them out of the way.

ttfn

 

[BarryK]

Hi Kid

thanks for info. I'm thinking I'm going to have to change pulleys because I can't see where I'd be able to currently attach another belt to the current one to run the compressor. My L76 is no power anything either. It has a 2-groove big pulley in front of the water pump with a small belt running from the inside groove to a very small single groove pulley on the drivers side than a belt on the outside groove running to the alternator. Unless it's possible to use a longer belt to wrap around and cover two items at once I figure I need to replace the 2-groove pulley with a 3-groove one.
May I also ask why you mention the 3-groove pulley you want to use would be underdrive? Does that mean it's a smaller diameter size and if so, what's the reason for it? Woulsn't that slow down the pulley speed to the alternator and everything else effecting performance or output levels? sorry if this is a dumb question but this is all new to me.

I'm glad to hear I don't have to move the battery - that will save some time and trouble at least!

 

[ctjackster]

Kid, on the VA install did you encounter any issues with the hood release bracket thing they call for? Seems I recall someone having issues, and the one on mine (it came with VA, I took it off) seemed tb a little funky there too.

 

[BarryK]

Jack
Bob (Stepinwolf) had posted previously about that. I do have to search and find his post regarding that and I also have an email into him. I remember he had to make an adapter bracket to make things work.

 

[Kid_Again]

Hmmm...hood release....strikes me that I had no problem with that...I guess they were referring to the vent that attaches to the underside of the dash cluster on the dirvers side (?????)...I didn't have a problem with that

BarryK....I THINK you're referring to the idler pulley on the driver's side of a HP small block?.....in general, i find that they serve no useful purpose for the way that these cars are now driven so i removed mine from my small block and it can be sold along with the car by my estate....if you're comfortable with this approach, just remove the idler pulley setup and you have another degree of freedom to work with


good luck

 

[Subfixer]

Posted an answer on the other forum.

I used the Classic Air kit, but put the drivers side air duct all the way to the left like the VA kit. As far as the hood release bracket that needs to be moved, I bought the "correct" Hood release bracket and cable from LICS for original A/C cars. It is slightly lower to clear the ductwork and mounts up to the holes that are in the dash brace for an A/C car. Details are in the AIM for placement.

 

[BarryK]

Kid

not even sure I know what the idler pulley is or does but other than the A/C install i'm really trying to keep the car as stock as possible. for that reason I'd rather leave it on unless it will make the A/C install MUCH easier than I guess it could be removed and I just keep it for the future if I need to reinstall it again. I can't imagine it's on the car though if it didn't serve some kind of purpose........

 

[BarryK]

Posted an answer on the other forum.

I used the Classic Air kit, but put the drivers side air duct all the way to the left like the VA kit. As far as the hood release bracket that needs to be moved, I bought the "correct" Hood release bracket and cable from LICS for original A/C cars. It is slightly lower to clear the ductwork and mounts up to the holes that are in the dash brace for an A/C car. Details are in the AIM for placement.

thanks Paul, I'll check over there.

good idea on the hood bracket - I didn't know the A/C cars had a different bracket there. When we decide on a date that works for you and we get closer to it we can talk via phone to make things easier and make sure i'll have everything I need. Trying to research now though to get an idea of what my shopping list will be

 

[Kid_Again]

Kid

not even sure I know what the idler pulley is or does but other than the A/C install i'm really trying to keep the car as stock as possible. for that reason I'd rather leave it on unless it will make the A/C install MUCH easier than I guess it could be removed and I just keep it for the future if I need to reinstall it again. I can't imagine it's on the car though if it didn't serve some kind of purpose........

Yup, your car, your call. It will not make it substantially easier so it really makes no difference. The idler pulley is a small black pulley down low on the drivers' side. Although I have no idea of the real intention, you're right that if the factory put it there, it has to be a good reason. An idler pully takes up the looseness in a controlled manner and they are common on modern cars. As far as the midyears go (no expert here), they came on the shp small blocks only. For years, I used to remove them and throw them out. Never had a problem with the engines. With the market for original corvette parts having gone the way that they have, I now put these parts in velvet lined walnut boxes and sell them for outrageous prices to the NCRS crowd.

Gotta make a living somehow.

Good post on the hood bracket issue. I'm certain I did not have a problem with installation and I don't have a problem with clearance now. Must be my time-honored practive of ONLY referring to the instructions once I screw up REALLY badly.;squint:

 

[BarryK]

kid, i know what you mean.......... i never used to read instructions at all but since working on cars is so new to me I try to read EVERYTHING 3, 4, 20 times before I touch the car so that hopefully I won't screw up too badly.

 

[BarryK]

ok, so far I've decided to NOT go with the Vintage Air unit for various reasons. I pretty much decided based on Paul's and Bob's recommendations (Subfixer and Stepinwolf) to go with the classic Auto air system but I also came across info on another system from Old Air Products
http://www.oldairproducts.com/shop/index.php
Their website sucks but the info in their catalog if you download it is very informative and complete.
They offer both R-12 and R-134A systems plus comes standard with the Sanden compressor or can be ordered with the original style GM A-6 compressor. The Sanden unit seems to be the most popular on the aftermarket systems but the A-6 would allow for a more "stock" appearance under the hood.
Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of the Old Air Products system?
Is going with R-12 or R-143A better?
Any opinions on the better compressor between the Sanden or the GM A-6.

thanks for any insight you can provide!

 

[Kid_Again]

Absolutely no reason to go with R12


There are theoretical reasons why R12 is more efficient, on a weight basis, than R134Ra. But the current standard is 134 so why go through the bother of finding and hoarding R12? Since you have now substantially modified your car, no point in using an antiquated standard with modern equipment. You'll be fine with 134.

 

[4WDVETTE]

Hey Kid, not having a service manual handy, was the idler pully only an shp application with A/C?

Steve

 

[BarryK]

Steve
couldn't have been ONLY on SHP w/ A/C as my SHP L76 WITHOUT A/C has it.

 

[4WDVETTE]

I'll have to get out the chassis manual when I get home. The old brain of mine just doesn't remember one on my original L79. Been playing with the big block too much I guess.

Steve

 

[BarryK]

gee, playing with the BB too much.......... life is just too tough on you

 

[4WDVETTE]

I know, but somone has to do it. By the way, no surgery on the leg so I should be back at finishing the Vette in 2 weeks - crutches in the trash!

Steve

 

[BarryK]

that's good news! Last time I had a leg injury I shattered it into about 60 pieces and destroyed the knee at the same time. Surgery wasn't an OPTION, it was a requirement. I just got lucky that they were able to save the leg - they told me AFTER the surgery that amputating it was a definate possiblity at the time. I sure didn't remember them telling ME that though.
I was in a full leg brace and crutches for almost 8 months.
Feels good to toss those crutches away doesn't it?

hope to see the Vette sometime soon. Yoiu should bring it to our Vette Club car show in Oct.

 

[Subfixer]

Due to the unique pulley setup on L76 with A/C, the idler pulley is not used. The alt belt moves to the inboard belt grooves on the WP and crank pulleys and the outboard pulley grooves are used for the compressor belt. (so says the 65 AIM)