A new crate engine - NO DAY AT THE BEACH

[Kid_Again]

OK, so I bought a ZZ454 since I lunched the original 427. That's sitting in the basement, waiting for the new owner.

When I told a buddy that I went the crate engine route, he told me about the crate engine he put in to a customer's car. Seems that he pulled the valve covers before he fired it up and found a socket sitting on a rocker. He's a no nonsense guy but I basically blew it off as urban legend.

So, being VERY superstitous (and trusting NO ONE), I pulled the valve covers and darned if I didn't find a loose washer sitting on the top of the head. Not a good sign.

So, I broke in the new engine per the General's instructions and the engine ran well. My only impression is the factory cam is a bit lame - I'm used to a solid lifter cam that has a BIT more upstairs. But I digress.

So, I'm driving home from View Nam Vett's about 3 weeks ago and I begin to hear a squeeling noise. A rough approximation of my response was "Gee Whiz", another engine with fried bearings, just great. Yeah, I overreacted but I have NOT had the best of luck with the coupe. The sound ALMOST sounded like a loose belt but not quite. It did not change pitch when I gave it gas.

I rebuild my own alternators so I figured maybe I screwed up (I had a bad batch of front alternator bearings). So I went through it one step at a time. Pulled the alternator belt. Still there. Pulled the AC belt. Still there. Since the water pump was the only component that transferred from the 427 to the 454, I swapped out the water pump. Still there. The sound persisted whether the clutch was in or out. It sounded like the squeel was coming from inside the engine. I COULDN'T have fried the bearings, I have 60# oil pressure damn near ALL the time. Gee gosh, gee darn. (Yet another approximation of what I said).

Damn thing was driving me crazy. This morning, I got up early and changed the oil. Perfect. A little bit of peach fuzz on the drain plug magnet. Nothing to worry about. I cut open the oil filter. Looked like a new filter.

I was out of ideas and decided to try and adjust the valves. Long story short, when I got to #4 intake and backed off the nut, the squeel disappeared.

I noticed something that I'd appreciate your comments about - especially from JohnZ - but all are welcome. For years, I've adjusted hydraulic lifters by backing them off till they clatter and then tightening down till the noise disappaers and then adding one-half turn in one-quarter turn increments. That's what I did here. However, that resulted in me ultimately BACKING OFF about one-half turn on each lifter from the factory setting. The car now runs fine with no noise. I also noticed that the push rod guides are VERY close to the push rods - closer than I remember seeing before on any engine I've worked on. The push rods have a lot of space around them where they go down into the lifter valley. So I guess I had a push rod scraping against a guide.

But why would the factory set the valve train that tight?

Thoughts?

Now, I suppose, crate engine valve covers all over will be removed looking for that legendary extra hardware.

 

[JL66REDCPE]

For the record -- I too have been adjusting hydraulic valves as you describe for the past 40+ years.

Now, are you telling me that the valves were adjusted so tight as to bend the push rods such that they scraped against the guides ???????? -- or were they mis-aligned with the rocker. Either way -- holy crap.

 

[Kid_Again]

Hey John..

I can't believe the push rods actually bent. Rationalizing this, my guess is the valve train was binding and there was enough offset to cause the rod to scrape the guide :confused

 

[vette]

I thought the new big blocks where non adjustable valves. I bought an LS6 crate 454 a few years back . It was before they changed to a roller cam. The valves where non adjustable. The first thing I did was change the cam to a soild and change the rockers to rollers. The only reason I changed the rockers was so I could adjust them. The motor still runs perfect to this day.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Well Now you have me nervous. I had my valve covers off,and the oil pan off and all seemed well. Belive me I will be listening to this motor real carefully

 

[Kid_Again]

I've never seen documentation that the valves were not adjustable. They acted just like adjustable valves and the engine runs fine. I'll check that out.

IH2LOSE - nervous is good. Especially when you have to rely on someone else's work. It took about 250 miles for my noise to appear. My assumption is that there is nothing seriously wrong with this engine.

I think there was a CHP article a while ago about GM's crate engines. They are assembled in the US by a small contracter to GM. Parts made in Mexico. Not sure which one causes me more concern.

To continue my favorite rant, I have never had such problems with the Japanese verhicles we owned. And now we have Korean vehicles and not a single problem. The General sources engines from the PRC. Sad, really.

 

[JohnZ]

I noticed something that I'd appreciate your comments about - especially from JohnZ - but all are welcome. For years, I've adjusted hydraulic lifters by backing them off till they clatter and then tightening down till the noise disappaers and then adding one-half turn in one-quarter turn increments. That's what I did here. However, that resulted in me ultimately BACKING OFF about one-half turn on each lifter from the factory setting. The car now runs fine with no noise. I also noticed that the push rod guides are VERY close to the push rods - closer than I remember seeing before on any engine I've worked on. The push rods have a lot of space around them where they go down into the lifter valley. So I guess I had a push rod scraping against a guide.

But why would the factory set the valve train that tight?

Thoughts?

Now, I suppose, crate engine valve covers all over will be removed looking for that legendary extra hardware.

I've adjusted hydraulics EXACTLY the same way you did for decades - have no idea why they were set that tight; one turn of the nut is about .050".

All Gen IV's have adjustable rockers - the non-adjustable valve train didn't start until the Gen V (502) engines.

 

[Kid_Again]

JonhZ:

Many thanks for the reply. It's a relief, frankly. I did not realize the GenVI's are non adjustable and that's something that we (VNV, JL66REDCPE) will be discussing this weekend. Once again, I am prevented from doing something stupid because of pure chance.

I have to apologize to the General about my previous comments relating the girlie cams put into the BB crate engines. But it is tough to get the specs off the GMP site. The stock cam specs seem to make perfect sense for the street and don't appear to be a compromise. The ZZ 454 cam specs are 510I/540E, @0.50 211/230; the 502 Special Cam is 527I/544E, @0.50 224/234. I browsed through the Crane catalog (understanding that cam specs definitions vary from one manufacturer to the next) and you have to go to a cam that requires more compression than the ZZ 454 punches out. So, it all comes together pretty reasonably.

As you and I think SWCDuke have consistenly said since I started logging on to the 'Net, the factory spends a LOT of time figuring out the best solution for a given product. The only mod I'll now consider is going to roller rockers because I have a prefectly good set along with brushed aluminum tall valve covers. That and probably a set on underdrive pulleys and I'm good to go.

Thanks again. The peace of mind is invaluable.

BTW, can't rave enuf about those Sweet Thunder side pipes you recommended. I may go for a set for the small block.;worship

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

How are the 502 Valves non adjustable and why......:confused

 

[Kid_Again]

Hey Mark....


Glad you saw this post. If you're worried about it, I believe that you would have to swap out the rocker studs. Since you'll "be there anyway", install a set of roller rockers. AND, since you'll "be there anyway", it's a simple matter to install a new cam.


Just THINK of all the pictures you'll be able to post on the ActionCenter.


Seriously, though, I'm glad you suggested that I post this question. See you this weekend.

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Hey Mark....


Glad you saw this post. If you're worried about it, I believe that you would have to swap out the rocker studs. Since you'll "be there anyway", install a set of roller rockers. AND, since you'll "be there anyway", it's a simple matter to install a new cam.


Just THINK of all the pictures you'll be able to post on the ActionCenter.


Seriously, though, I'm glad you suggested that I post this question. See you this weekend.

Nahh..I ain't doing anything to the valve train yet... I'll break the motor in and take it from their...

Heh sent you an email...Check it out.. Also spoke to John Lolloi ..He's coming around 9:30... Bring your Video Camera