Allow me to share my misery (with my car that is)

[jreeves]

Larry

Could it be residue from a chemical stripper? (I don't recall if you removed the old finish mechanically or with chemicals)

 

[IH2LOSE]

Larry,

This is bad news. Sorry to hear that it's down deep.

This is a real stab in the dark, but could aggressive surface prep, in advance of even the priming or sealing, have dug too deep into the fiberglass?

The problem is restricted to the deck lid, right?

The problems areas are
Trunk lid all over (no problem I will replace it)
small pop on convertable deck lid (looks like an easey repair)
Large pop on rear top of 1/4 panel just 2" foward of the antena

Well you know I take plenty of pictures of every thing and in studying the photos, the glass was virgin in the area of the pop on the rear 1/4 panel. and on the convertable deck lid. Truck I dont have good photos of. I have some photos I will post tonight.I did find a little brown area in the glass by the antena pop so maybee there was rot in the glass or something. Remember this car sat naked in a barn for quite some time.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Larry

Could it be residue from a chemical stripper? (I don't recall if you removed the old finish mechanically or with chemicals)

The car was paint stripped in the 70 by some one else and say naked for the last 30 years in a garage or barn. I had the car media blasted to remove all of the residue areas

 

[IH2LOSE]

I have seen this before in other paint jobs and for what it is worth I think that the problem may be the compressor. The painter probably has a filter and trap on the line but did he have another final filter on the inlet of the gun and was it new if he did? I think you might be getting some compressor oil or water contamination in the airline. Just a thought and a thing to consider before you do the rework. Also, did by chance you mix any fish eye eliminator with the paint mixture? I have been told this is not recommended with two part paints using a catalyst. I tried it once by mistake and it left a mess that took me forever to straighten out so I feel your pain. Sorry it happened and hope you have better luck on the redo.

Randy

PS: The delamination problem would not be a result of the above. That has to be something to do with the glass repair work or maybe a primer solvent incompatibility problem I would think.

Well I know its not a contamination from the air lines as I installed several oil seperators and dehydrators in his shop about 10 years ago for him

My thoughts are some water or what ever got into the glass from sitting naked and rotted the glass.and maybee some solvents got into the rotted area and sat dorment since the paint job was done and the sun is pulling it out.So the real problem is rotted glass that did not show till now


Thanks again every one for the insight

 

[wapaugh]

Man, Larry...

Sorry to hear about these problems. You are so close to finishing! It makes me wonder what sort of problems I might run into when the tired old black paint comes off mine. It's only been sitting since 1975 with car parts and who knows what else stacked on top of it. And I thought 3 inches of rat droppings were going to be the worse of it!!! How would one ensure the fiberglass is stable before applying new paint? If glass rot does exist, shouldn't it be the responsibility of the paint & body man to find it and repair it or is it not that simple? When I had my 64 done years ago, I know my painter worked and inspected every square inch of the body for hairline cracks or any abnormalities that might show once the car was painted. The end result was fantastic and held up for as long as I owned the car. It just seems to me that rotted glass should show some sort of discoloration or perhaps bead water differently during wetsanding. But I don't know...I'm not a painter. Hope you get this resolved.

Wes

 

[IH2LOSE]

Man, Larry...

Sorry to hear about these problems. You are so close to finishing! It makes me wonder what sort of problems I might run into when the tired old black paint comes off mine. It's only been sitting since 1975 with car parts and who knows what else stacked on top of it. And I thought 3 inches of rat droppings were going to be the worse of it!!! How would one ensure the fiberglass is stable before applying new paint? If glass rot does exist, shouldn't it be the responsibility of the paint & body man to find it and repair it or is it not that simple? When I had my 64 done years ago, I know my painter worked and inspected every square inch of the body for hairline cracks or any abnormalities that might show once the car was painted. The end result was fantastic and held up for as long as I owned the car. It just seems to me that rotted glass should show some sort of discoloration or perhaps bead water differently during wetsanding. But I don't know...I'm not a painter. Hope you get this resolved.

Wes

Wes I think a painted car is probably safer then an unpainted car for allowing them to sit.THe paint will keep the fiberglass protected

As for
shouldn't it be the responsibility of the paint & body man to find it and repair it or is it not that simple?

Me personally was over every inch of this car during the paint and body work and I never seen this problem.I mean I actually used to tap on the car till I found a funny hollow sound and thats how I would find cracks in the car and dremmle them out to exspose them to the body guy.these ones where not in the car when it was repaired,As a matter of fact just a remeinder that they showed there uglyness only after the car sat in the sun for a couple of hours.this car was in my heated garage since mid january and I never seen hide not hair of it. I would like to better understand why it failed

 

[IH2LOSE]

Well just returned from a car cruise and had the great fortune of meeting an elderly gentalman who was happy to share his wisdom.So we got to chatting and I explained the problem I am having with the 62 and its blisters.


He explained he has seen it a hundred times and the problem is solvents get trapped in the car.Not only does he know it was solvents he has investicated enough of these to tell me when the solvents went in to the paint.He belives they went into the glass when the car was in he paint booth being wiped down just prior to having its sealer sprayed on. they wiped the car down just prior to the sealer and any tiny minute cracks in the glass (that the sealer is designed to seal) catch the solvent and the glass just wicks it up.The sealer goes on and seals the car JUST AS IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO and the solvents are stuck under the sealer and just sit there.Now I explained that they baked my car prior to painting it to avoid this problem. He explained they would need to bake it for hours to get it out and chances are IF they even baked the car he would assure it was only to warm up the booth and the car enough to evaporate whats on the surface. So now we have the solvent stuck in the glass below the rock hard slick sand.

all the rest of the matereal put on the car have no effect on the solvents stuck in the glass because its stuck under the slick sand.all the other baking would not be done hot enough or long enough to pull this solvent out of the car.

Untill that sunny day in april when I wheeled it out on the drive way into the sun.that radent heat was strong enough to activate the solvent and make it exspand .Slick sand is not moving and its stuck to the top surface of the glass.so the only thing to move is the glass.the solvent exspantion ruptures the fiberglass and thats what let loose. The cure is a day in the sun with a care full eye marking the blister.The agressively grinding into the ruptured areas untill the edges of the rupture start to feather out nicely.then I need to resin and strand repair the areas above the normal height to leave a flush grinded area ready sealer again.He explained in the old days they used to use laquer thinner on a rag to wipe down a car.any cracks would show up as wet black lines and then they would trace that crack with a magic marker then grind it out and resin it closed.If you did not resen up the cracks the solvents would get stuck and the paint would come off. Now adays he explains with the 2 part sealers and 2 part paints the quaility is much better then before and when the paint is stuck to the car your not getting it off with out a grinder.the slick sand was soo strong the weakest link was the glass and that why it let loose.

I asked him about rotten fiberglass and he explained when glass is rotten its brown and looks rotten.its rots out from water getting into a crack and sitting there for ever. he said leave it out for the day and go over the entire car while its still hot and find every thing and fix it and Ill never have a problem again with it.


This fellow spoke with so much confedence and exspained excactly what happend to my car as if he did see it 100 times,that I think this is m problem. Anybody gthink he is correct? after 3 days in the sun I have not gotton any more blisters on the car. I am in the midst of getting it ready for the body shop again.as soon as my replacement truck lid arrive its going back to the body shop.


I have some photos I will up load of what the paint manufacturers representitive cut out of the car.

 

[Mac]

His explanation makes sense... Funny the paint guy didn't get this or was he more concerned about covering his liability?

-Mac

 

[IH2LOSE]

His explanation makes sense... Funny the paint guy didn't get this or was he more concerned about covering his liability?

-Mac

Mac the body shop has agreed to repair the car regaurdless of whos fault it is.They have done plenty of vettes (never the magnatude of what was done on the 62 for me )And he has never seen this happen before and that why he called in the paint rep. I guess unless someone else I speak to agrees whole heartly with what the fellow I met last night has to say it will all be speculation.



I have come to terms with it,I just wish I knew why it happened so I can afoid it happening again.


As for other speculations on what happened

1-when I paint striped it I left the stripper in the car (This car was stripped in the 70's and left naked for years)
2-when I medea blasted it I did it too strong and made weakness in the glass(I went over the entire car tapping on it to find cracks and any weak ness)
3 The media blasting went thru the gel coat and the car is now garbage because it lost its gel coat (there is no gel coat on my year from the factory)
4-the only way do do an entire vette is with gel coat, not poylemer primer/sealers.
5-car was left out side in it life and the glass is rotted.


Now if some one knows what did happen please let me know.If some one belives it is rot and I should find a new body dont hold back.I am an adult and I do take bad news well,I never shoot the messenger

Thanks again for your insite

I may take this problem to the NCRS site to see if they have the answer for me

 

[IH2LOSE]

Well this is a picture of one of the blister cut open with a razor blade

Rupture I guess is the best description

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Larry,

I think having been stripped and left outside for years may have something to do wth it. Pinholes in the surface allow water to enter the fiberglas and freezing and thawing do the rest. It certainly looks like the surface prep has been forceably delaminated from the mat. Ice would do that.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Larry,

I think having been stripped and left outside for years may have something to do wth it. Pinholes in the surface allow water to enter the fiberglas and freezing and thawing do the rest. It certainly looks like the surface prep has been forceably delaminated from the mat. Ice would do that.

I was told the car has always been inside since it was stripped around 1976/1977. But there is no way to prove it.but for sure before the car was painted none of these were in the car as I stated above I tapped on every square inch of the car and what ever did not sound solid was dremmeled/grinded and repaired.

these blisters when not swollen from the sun if you tap on them they have a
de-stinked hollow sound.

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Oh, I misunderstood. That's a real shame that all that work has to be redone. Strange that prep-sol would do that much damage so far under the surface.

Good luck getting the problem resolved, I know you have been putting so much work into your project,and dealing with your own pain in the process.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Thank you for the concern

 

[vette]

Larry. I stayed out of this one till now. Because people will believe what they want to believe. First , you can bake the car in a booth all you want but you can not reach the surface temp. the sun will put on the car. If you had a booth, like a powder coat booth that can reach 200 for a few hours, that may work. I did that once. When you prime the car for the first time you should never wipe it down with any solvents. And if you feel the need to then it should be a very fast drying type. Your picture dose not look like solvent pop to me but it's only a picture. It looks like it's coming from to deep in the glass for it to be solvent popping. Solvents will always rise to the top and when you have a urethane top coat it will lift it off. But solvent pop dose not normaly lift the glass like that. All i can say is don't try to fix anything till it sits in the hot sun for a few days. If we ever have any hot sun get the car out side and leave it there. You may want to wrap it in black plastic so it will keep the heat in and raise the surface temp of the car.My 60 was stripped when I got it and had been out side for a long time. It is now primed and I tint the primer to a dark grey and it will be out side for a at least 4 weeks till I even block it for the first time. I'm just waiting for the sun to come out for more than a day. Most guys want to do the paint work in the winter so they can have the car for summer but the best time to do a vette is in the summer. So they can be put out in the sun and cook for awhile. Glass dose weird things and heat is your best friend when you do the paint work. It still looks like a delamination of the glass to me but I could be wrong. If you want any more of my advise call me. I could be in the same boat as you. my body sat for years stripped and out side covered with a tarp. only the sun will tell the real story. Brian G.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Brian


What do you think made it delaminate,(besides the sun) allthough the car was a winter paint job.I got it in september and prior to the body shop getting it I worked on other stuff on the car out in the sun in my drive way.


You know it may seems silly but I would feel much better about going foward on the project If I knew for sure what direction to take.

I am sorry but I have lost all of your information and was embarresed to email you again for it .

Thank you for the information.

Pretty ugly huh

 

[vette]

I have a 63 rear clip sitting in my back yard thats been there for some time. It did the same thing you have. I believe the resin breaks down after being outside for a long time. When you apply color it is now going to get hotter then when it was bare glass. Thats when S--- starts to happen. I checked my 60 body a dozen times and think it is ok but the sun will tell the real story. What you have may just be one or two panels. Leave all the trim off the car and whenever we have some hot sun leave it outside. Like I said wrap it in black plastic. It will raise the surface temp ever more. Then see what pops. It may not be that bad. If I had time I would drive up to look at it myself. I may be able to do that in a few weeks. I have been doing the 60 and trying to do all the spring mantainance on my cars so I can drive whatever one I feel like. Thats the bad part of having to many cars. I'm working on the Grand Sport today. Change oil and a little tuning. Then clean it and have it ready to drive. The way the weather is going I don't know when that will be.

 

[vette]

Larry You said the car was stripped before you got right? If some one used the wrong stripper and left it on the top surface to long it could have caused the glass to delaminate. And would not show up till the sun heated it up. I saw this once on a car that a guy stripped with to strong a stripper and it riuned a few spots where it sat to long. Just a thought. But for now we must see if there are anymore and then fix the problem.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Larry You said the car was stripped before you got right? If some one used the wrong stripper and left it on the top surface to long it could have caused the glass to delaminate. And would not show up till the sun heated it up. I saw this once on a car that a guy stripped with to strong a stripper and it riuned a few spots where it sat to long. Just a thought. But for now we must see if there are anymore and then fix the problem.

Thanks again brian what you say also makes sence.The car has been out in the sun and no new pops, I am going to go out and do some grinding to see how far out the delamination is.