An NCRS Question regarding judging...

[*89x2*]

I was reading another *interesting thread* on the NCRS board and was caught a bit off-guard by this - And guys, it is CallAway, ok.

Follow along the thread if you like :W

Calloway Flight Judging
Are 87-90 Calloways eligible for flight judging? Is there distinction between the ones ordered through the dealer with the RPO or one sent to be retrofitted after being purchased? This leads me to another question of RPOs, a flight judging is to evaluate a car against what it would have looked like on the showroom floor. IE The options were accomplished at the plant before being shipped to a dealer. In 56 Chevy made available some RPO options that were designed to promote racing the car, these were accomplished at the factory. Some were ordered that way by the customer but some were ordered by the dealer and were used to attract customers to the showroom and later sold to a customer. These options were planned for the following years but the Corp ban on racing stopped the availability of those options. If I restore one of these cars that were ordered with these options, IE Documentation that these Items were installed at the factory and the car came through a dealership, would it not be eligible for flight judging and if not why not?

Tyler

Hi Tyler,

The Callaways ordered through the dealer via RPO are eligible for Flight Judging - the others are deemed modified cars, and would take hits on all of the Callaway modifications since they weren't ordered that way from the "factory" (the factory here is referred to loosely, as we all know the cars were shipped from the factory to Callaway for the modifications, but that was done as part of the RPO process and before delivery to the dealer).

Flight Judging evaluates a car against what it would have looked like leaving the factory, not necessarily how it would have appeared on the showroom floor. Dealers can and often do add their own options - some are among those available from the factory, and some are not (e.g., custom pinstripes, and the "California" third taillight treatment).

I am confused about your differentiation between a customer ordering certain RPOs vs. a dealer ordering them. If the car was ordered from the factory a certain way via the RPO process, it doesn't make a difference who ordered it. And adding an option later - even if by the dealer, and even if it was one that could have been ordered via RPO - would still be considered a modification.

Alternately, if you are saying that dealers could have, in some instances, ordered options from the factory that weren't available through the normal RPO process (COPO?) - maybe slated for future RPO but dropped before being made available to the general public - these would have to be documented to the satisfaction of the NCRS (Team Leaders?) for them to be accepted in the Flight Judging process.

Save the wave!

Louis

Re: Calloway Flight Judging
I was a little unclear, I was refering to factory installed RPO items not dealer installed items. Is there some kind of 'authenticated' RPO list that can be on a car being judged? If so is there a procedure to add an item through documentation?

Dealer ordered, I ment a dealer ordered the car with factory RPOs with no specific customer in mind vice a customer ordered car.

Tyler

Tyler, Your SPI should have a list of all RPOs on the car this is located unter the center arm rest console. You can also order a build sheet (broadcast sheet) and window sticker from the Museum. This should show the RPOs. Lastly you can also order a copy of the original dealer invoice from Allied Vaughn. All of these can be used to justify options installed on your car.

For Allied Vaughn invoice requests right click on the following link and select save target:

http://www.syreal.com/VehicleInvoiceCustomerForm.doc

Then fill out the form and email it to:

vehicleinvoice@gmmediaarchive.com

The cost is $50 for a copy of the microfilm dealer invoice. This is available for most 1977 and later Chevrolets including Corvettes. Export cars are not available and some fleet vehicles. Not sure if the Calloway was a fleet or not. If unsure you can email your VIN to Sandy at the above address and she can check to see if she has it before you place the order

Eric

Re: Calloway Flight Judging
If you read the first post I asked about Calloways then jumped to the same idea but applied to 56s and 57s that had race specific items installed at St Louis. These were options that could be ordered through the dealer and came on the car when it was unloaded at the dealership. If I locate one of the few that were built with these options and want it Flight Judged then I would much rather restore it to that level than to restore it as a stock optioned car so that it can judged.

Later cars are much easier but are they. I have an 88 with a build sheet that shows it is a ZR-1 ( It was assembled on the production line on June 87), if I presented it for Flight Judging would you accept it for judging? How about an 89 narrow body car with an LT-5 and six speed, again a car with a build sheet showing it was built on the production line that way. ( I know where one of these are.)

Tyler

Tyler,
Years ago I got to drive a 1989 narrow body ZR1 from the Desert Proving Grounds to the NCRS Regional in Scottsdale. Neat car, and some of us abused the dickens out of it for the entire meet. At the time I never though we would come to the point of considering judging it, and neither did anyone else at the meet.
Things like this don't make me feel any younger.

__________________
Terry

 

[Peer81]

Good thing the (NCRS?) guy replying still says it's a Callaway and not a Calloway

Groeten Peter

 

[*89x2*]

...what makes this all the more interesting, is how things will be regarded, once the new manuals are out with revisions.

I am about done with the 1987-1989 book and then have the 1990+ manual to look over next. This past year at Carlisle, I got a copy of each, provided by the NCRS, witht he idea that over the following year, I would work to clarify much of the information regarding the Callaway Twin Turbo Corvettes.

A prime example of "wrongness" is how they thought ALL automatic Callaways were once 4+3 or ZF6 cars to begin with. They were not. Also, most of the book(s) were written off an 87 car used in judging. The erros carry over to emblems and exhaust.

Rest assured, we will correct this and the standard will be what was right and actually done when new.

Dealer options do not count - Konner was famous for adding BBS wheels, etc.:W

 

[kruzmisl]

Another HUGE thanks to Chris!!!!!!!!! Nobody else I know would and does commit this effort to the cause. But the thanks also extend to your bride for allowing (putting up) with the deal!!!!!!
For the ones that hope to be judged correctly some day, hats off!

 

[*89x2*]

Thanks Paul :cool Natasha is a saint! That's for sure!

We'll get this wrapped up by the late summer (I hope) and then the NCRS can take the info and incorporate the info into their next version of the books. A labor of love, the goal is to benefit the hobby

 

[C-4 Now]

Being a direct conversion car I guess that NCRS and I will not be meeting! Doesn't matter to me as I think Callaways are modern day Yenko's and I don't hear anybody complaining about owning them!!

 

[*89x2*]

Being a direct conversion car I guess that NCRS and I will not be meeting! Doesn't matter to me as I think Callaways are modern day Yenko's and I don't hear anybody complaining about owning them!!

Ike, is your car indeed a "Direct Coversion" car, or was it a Callaway Twin Turbo built from dealer stock without the B2K code? There is a discernable difference when it comes to judging.

It was proven the cars that are not direct conversion cars, or cars taken to Callaway by their owners after purchase, were built NO DIFFERENTLY from a car wearing B2K. The pick list I saw, was the same as any other car. Direct Conversion cars, were built to the specs available at the time it was built. An example of this, are the flat-hood 1987s, one I know w/ the 88+ WonderBar.

Then another car that I know was a Direct Conversion, was #69 for 1989. There is a little more to this story, but I think you get the idea :cool

 

[C-4 Now]

:confused Always more to learn. I guess I don't know the answer. Know that car was a late build 89 {July}and was converted Sept 89. Probably time for info from NCM!! Also probably will wait a little longer before getting C-4 NCRS book.

 

[*89x2*]

:confused Always more to learn. I guess I don't know the answer. Know that car was a late build 89 {July}and was converted Sept 89. Probably time for info from NCM!! Also probably will wait a little longer before getting C-4 NCRS book.

Ike, the NCM will have reproductions of your build sheet and window sticker.

They will not have "CALLAWAY" window stickers for 1990 and 1991 cars - but rather, they will have the CHevrolet ones.

Not a big deal, as yours is an 89, but I thought I would mention that as I know someone who ordered theirs for their 91 and were surprised at what they got :W